Vista and OpenGL

[Kaotik]

There has been a lot of talk about this matter, and several different conclusions by different people.

But do we actually have some facts?

The way I understood from all I've read, there's 2 ways of doing OpenGL on Vista:

• OpenGL > DirectX "wrapper" by Microsoft, can be run while Aero is on
• Full OpenGL ICD - You just need to shut down Aero to use this, which is what you want to do anyway when running games in fullscreen mode.

Am I completely off with this, or?

 

[KimB]

I think that is correct. But it does have the consequence that you won't be able to run your OpenGL games in Windowed mode well (which can be nice sometimes...), and 3D modelling programs (which usually use OpenGL in windowed mode) will have a hard time as well.

 

[Ken2012]

3D modelling programs (which usually use OpenGL in windowed mode) will have a hard time as well.

Shouldn't MS be worried about losing a large chuck of it's CAD community? If it has one that is: Is it really much more common for a 3DS Max/Maya/Lightwave etc user to be using an OS X or Linux system?...

 

[Xmas]

I think that is correct. But it does have the consequence that you won't be able to run your OpenGL games in Windowed mode well (which can be nice sometimes...), and 3D modelling programs (which usually use OpenGL in windowed mode) will have a hard time as well.

You will be able to run those programs in windowed mode, but Aero will be disabled. This is not limited to OpenGL, apps that try to render directly to the front buffer will have the same consequences.

 

[Kaotik]

So in the real life, we can just disregard all the talk about the issue and state that only thing changing is that we need to go and disable Aero to use OpenGL - right?

 

[Richteralan]

So in the real life, we can just disregard all the talk about the issue and state that only thing changing is that we need to go and disable Aero to use OpenGL - right?

Yes, that is correct.

 

[Deathlike2]

Well... smart people would disable this useless waste of a resource known as Aero if it really has to mess with OpenGL...

 

[Temporary Name]

Probably the same people who would disable the wasteful nonsense known as a "GUI" and rely on a good old command line.

 

[Deathlike2]

Probably the same people who would disable the wasteful nonsense known as a "GUI" and rely on a good old command line.

:smile:

I wouldn't go that far... I didn't find XP's Luna be that much better either... I don't know exactly why they are wasting development time on a GUI component when there are probably many other things that probably should be looked at...

 

[Kaotik]

:smile:

I wouldn't go that far... I didn't find XP's Luna be that much better either... I don't know exactly why they are wasting development time on a GUI component when there are probably many other things that probably should be looked at...

Believe it or not, tests show that even those who claim that "it's fancy but i prefer the old look" seem to work generally faster with the "candy theme" on.
It's all about making you comfortable - compare for example some boring gray cubicle ("windows classic") to your living room ("luna theme")

Oh ye - the Vista in it's current form is already faster than XP in my opinion in general usage, and that's with Aero (Glass) on, so I don't mind if it wastes a resource or two when it doesn't hurt anything I'm doing.

 

[Zeross]

You will be able to run those programs in windowed mode, but Aero will be disabled. This is not limited to OpenGL, apps that try to render directly to the front buffer will have the same consequences.

One IHV told me that they were able to find an agreement with MS and that we will have full OpenGL support in windowed mode with Aero enabled but at the cost of a slight decrease in performance.

 

[DudeMiester]

Well I hope you're right, and it would explain why the banner is gone at opengl.org.

 

[Anteru]

Yeah, I saw it dissapear lately ... hopefully this means that OpenGL under Vista is on its way and not that M$ blocked it completely.

Long live OpenGL!

 

[drpepper]

Coming from a mac user, can anyone explain the conflict with OpenGL and the Aero component of Vista? Is MS just making it hard for OpenGL to work? Or is it something deeper?

 

[Anteru]

It's just making it hard, 3dlabs stated there is no problem having Aero and OpenGL it's just M$ who doesn't want it. I've written a short summary about the situation in my blog.

I think they don't see another choice to push people to use Vista. If the DX10 features would be exposed as extensions under OpenGL and work with Windows XP, why the hell should people get Vista?

 

[Razor1]

Sometimes there are conflicts when using two applications running both API's on the same graphics card. But I would agree, why not just have an auto shut off of Aero glass when Dx or Ogl programs are loaded?

 

[Xmas]

So much misinformation about what is practically a non-issue...

Sometimes there are conflicts when using two applications running both API's on the same graphics card. But I would agree, why not just have an auto shut off of Aero glass when Dx or Ogl programs are loaded?

Disabling is automatic, and it affects OpenGL and some other applications that try to access the frontbuffer, even some older DirectX games.

 

[Demirug]

Sometimes there are conflicts when using two applications running both API's on the same graphics card. But I would agree, why not just have an auto shut off of Aero glass when Dx or Ogl programs are loaded?

AERO will shut off as soon as a program use a function or API that give you direct front buffer access. Microsoft remove this feature from DirectX beginning with version 8.0. Games that use older version are candidates for shut off AERO too. But you don’t even need OpenGL or DirectX to deactivate AERO. You can do it with simple plain GDI too. As soon as you get the desktop DC you will lost AERO

EDIT: Xmas was faster.

 

[Demirug]

It's just making it hard, 3dlabs stated there is no problem having Aero and OpenGL it's just M$ who doesn't want it. I've written a short summary about the situation in my blog.

I think they don't see another choice to push people to use Vista. If the DX10 features would be exposed as extensions under OpenGL and work with Windows XP, why the hell should people get Vista?

You should read all the public information again (hint: WinHEC) and then rewrite this blog entry.

 

[Razor1]

Ah nice so Ogl will run the same as before . All is happy in the cross platform world