US$199 quad core tablet - is it the end for handheld consoles?

The question is really how the success of the Windows Mobile platform will be. Is there even room for them anymore? With the demise of RIM, the answer is probably yes, but it will be fun to watch... will the Developers port the best mobile games? Or will Android and iOS App Store selction continue to reign supreme as they do now.

That's a two part answer. Will Windows Phone overtake Android or iOS maket share? Not anytime soon. However will it be a profitable platform? That's where I think it will overtake Android in that companies will be able to make more money on Windows Phone compared to Android phone. As far as the Windows 8 platform getting support, here you go:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-12/electronic-arts-sees-new-windows-as-central-mobile-game-platform.html?cmpid=yhoo

If EA will be there, you can bet others will follow.
 
Regarding the future Windows store, is that not only for Metro apps? You will not be able to run middleware like Cryengine on that I think.....

I think it's a pretty arbitrary distinction, x86 apps are eligible to be "Metro" hahaha or should I say "Modern Style User Interface" Apps. Good lord :p

Google reportedly has Chrome available in Metro, not sure why middleware vendors couldn't also target it.

@Joker - Ya they'll get support. The question is how much, and of what quality and diversity. If I'm going to adopt an ecosystem I need to know that I'm losing out in Breadth and Quality of selection.

To be totally honest though, Steam is all I need. A sexy Win8 tablet, sporting Steam is pretty damned compelling. Screw Metro...err I mean Modern Style User Interface.The main problem there is obviously Touch support, but that could be added to most games pretty quickly I imagine.
 
To be totally honest though, Steam is all I need. A sexy Win8 tablet, sporting Steam is pretty damned compelling.

That works too :) I've got steam on my pc and ultrabook now and with cloud saves it makes gaming really nice. I'll definitely put it on my tablet once I get one, then my gaming is basically set. But I'll definitely be buying games off the Windows store also and likewise they will run on all my devices which is great. Hence why I'm struggling to see the need to buy another console...unless it can also run my Windows store games, then I will get one.
 
That works too :) I've got steam on my pc and ultrabook now and with cloud saves it makes gaming really nice. I'll definitely put it on my tablet once I get one, then my gaming is basically set. But I'll definitely be buying games off the Windows store also and likewise they will run on all my devices which is great. Hence why I'm struggling to see the need to buy another console...unless it can also run my Windows store games, then I will get one.

Yep! Just got Steam installed on my new Zenbook UX32 with 620m gpu, modded with 10GB RAM and a 256GB SSD. I'm ready for my vacation already :D

I'm really not so sure about purchasing apps through Windows Store, like <$5 sure, but $20+, I dunno, I'm not sure I trust MS and their ecosystem. They suck at that kind of stuff. It's just just 6mth since they FINALLY allowed me to have one user account logged in at the same time on 2 consoles, like are you freaking kidding me??

They just make too many dumb decisions for my taste. I buy iOS games because I have to. I buy Google apps cause I trust google and their ecosystem and track record. I can't see myself buying into MS's ecosystem at all until I see MS smarten up and begin focusing more on my UserExperience, and less on padding their bottom dollar or ancient DRM restrictions.

As an example, When I buy Indie Game the Movie from Steam, I get an MP4. Boom, done. That's never going to happen with Microsoft... they just are way too bogged down in internal politics and decisions by committee.
 
Archos 7" Android tablet with thumbsticks :
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...aming-tablet-that-looks-like-playstation-vita

Not the most meaty hardware, but it bridges the gap between handheld console and Android tablet nicely.
Hardware is definitely not the most meaty but still good. The Mali mp400 in its 4 cores configuration does pretty well (Apple A4 lvl of performance in the galaxy S2).

We don't know the architecture used for the CPU but we know the clock speed 1.5 GHz.
I would bet on a Samsung Exynos 4 dual using 32nm Samsung lithography as it's the only shipping product with such characteristic.

The thing must perform no that far from an iPad 2 (A5).
I could not open the pdf with exact specs on samsung website for some reason... But I expect those Exynos to have more L2 than both the ipad2 (A5) and the PSV.

In CPU power it beats the iPad2 in every metrics, it beats the PSV in single thread performance on clock speed alone.

I expect the Mali mp400 to be clocked a bit higher than in the Galaxy S2 (45nm version), not too mention than Archos could tweak clock speed a bit and there is a bit more room for thermal dissipation in a tablet than in a phone.

Coming with ICS I also expect 1GB of ram more than both aforementioned product (though vs the psv Android and iOs take their share obviously) but still has its importance.

Overall I expect that Samsung chips to crush the psv when it comes to battery life and the chip to include way better power management feature.

I don't expect the screen to be great but it's a pretty standard 1280/800 7inches display. Definitely a plus by self, visibility in game is better. For media and web browsing it's not even in the same ballpark imho. As a down side I suspect that it will consumes more than the PSV screen more than making up (negatively) for the gain from the SOC.

Not too bad as they should ship the thing between 150$ and 200$.

Then on a software pov, games are still sucky but ICS/Android is order of magnitude above what Sony provides with the PSV.

That's pretty much where I wanted Sony to be for the PSV. I feel almost sorry for Sony and I really question their decision processes. Archos is not a big brand that device is not threatening them but (there is always a but) how it comes Archos can ship such a device somewhere between 150$ and 200$ and make a profit and Sony loses money (it seems) on their 250$ PSV?

This imo is bad, OK PSV somehow subsidizes for other Sony division (I guess the costly screen, etc.) but they have to stop that crap, they are heading to a wall at Mach 1 speed.

I also suspect that difference in the R&D budget between both device in a blend of an order of magnitude and a few power of 2 higher in favor of the PSV.
------------------------

I would like to move and look a bit forward. I read this today (sorry it's French):
http://www.pcinpact.com/news/73435-lunreal-engine-3-depic-games-deja-porte-sur-windows-rt.htm
[OT] there seems to be a partnership between Nvidia and EPic, Nvidia is definitely playing clever in the embedded market, no matter their hardware is not the best they manage to exist and more than that. Impressive. Interestingly they point out that on that platform they ported the whole UE3 engine and hint at some ports from nowadays pc/consoles games.[/OT]

That issue I've with that is that next years (q4 2013 or may be even before) there could be follow up to that Archos initiative (by them selves or others). It's a really bad omen, really bad :(

I don't know how much MSFT asks for a Win8 RT license. But imagine that next years you could have refresh of such a products as this Archos GameTab, in the same price, running on tegra 4, newer Exynos version powered by dual A15 configuration, or Qualcom product based on Krait. All this with newer / faster GPU. All this faster RAM and possibly more ram.
They are to run newer version of Android or Windows 8.

I mean what will be left to Sony? They are losing one year as they can't drop the price whereas in the time the market is moving fast in the mobile front. Free to play for lot of games is closer and closer to us. Worst part they are already losing money.

Honestly it almost pissies me off CEO are bright people but some corporations still act in insane fashions... Next thing you know the clever CEO dumps another few thousand people that were actually doing their jobs properly.

EDIT
Honestly IT ACTUALLY pisses me off, I lied :LOL:
 
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It's probably using Rockchip RK3066 or Amlogic AML8726-Mx. Allwinner also use Mali400 but pair it with A8. Mediatek have Mali license, but I believe its latest chip still use SGX.
 
It's probably using Rockchip RK3066 or Amlogic AML8726-Mx. Allwinner also use Mali400 but pair it with A8. Mediatek have Mali license, but I believe its latest chip still use SGX.
Thnaks for the insight. I didn't even know those Chinese brands :)

Most likely a bit slower but cheaper too.
 
That's a two part answer. Will Windows Phone overtake Android or iOS maket share? Not anytime soon. However will it be a profitable platform? That's where I think it will overtake Android in that companies will be able to make more money on Windows Phone compared to Android phone.

Why will OEMs make more money with Windows Phone 8?
 
I was talking about developers, not oem's.


Oh. Sorry I didn't get the proper context. What's MS bringing to the table as far as profitability for devs? I was under the impression IOS was making the big bucks and everyone else was fighting over very small margins.
 
What's MS bringing to the table as far as profitability for devs? I was under the impression IOS was making the big bucks and everyone else was fighting over very small margins.

A few reasons that come to mind:

- Microsoft takes a smaller cut, 20% (with sales >$25k) compared to 30% on iOS. You can negotiate if you have the clout but you are still negotiating from a better % baseline on the Windows app store anyways.

- More exposure on the Windows app store since it's not so saturated. On iOS it's very difficult now to not get lost.

- One codebase lets you ship an app that works on desktop, laptop, tablet, phone and (possibly?) their future console. There is no one else out there that can offer this now or anytime soon so you aren't dependent on a customer having a particular phone to be able to upsell to them, any Windows 8 device is a potential customer.

- Windows is still huge, so long term your Win8 apps will reach an utterly massive audience unless that 91% of Windows XP/Vista/7 desktop users all decide to defect to Linux.
 
...so you aren't dependent on a customer having a particular phone to be able to upsell to them, any Windows 8 device is a potential customer.
Except you're dependent on them having a Windows phone, which is basically a Nokia at this point.

- Windows is still huge, so long term your Win8 apps will reach an utterly massive audience unless that 91% of Windows XP/Vista/7 desktop users all decide to defect to Linux.
Are Win 8 apps coming to older Windows? If they are Windows 8 exclusive, the market will be whoever upgrades, and Windows 7 is very good. Even then, the cross-device market will be limited to whoever gets a win 8 PC and a Windows phone/tablet, which is going to be a far, far, far smaller market than iOS or Android. IMO it'd be better as a developer to use a cross platform development environment and target iOS+Android if you're writing an app. There'll be opportunities for a noteworthy app to make a strong appearance on Win 8, just as there is any platform at launch (PSVita via PSMobile, Wiiware, etc.) where you have a captive audience looking for something to buy, but if you miss the small launch window, you are reliant on the market growing for it to pay back your development efforts. On the other overcrowded platforms, you are instead dependent on creating a good app and marketing. That aren't any fields of gold anywhere AFAICS.
 
Samsung got a Winphone 8 for end of year, and others follow… They're need to be less dependent from Androïd.

But yes MS need to help (financial and tech) devs to have a strong Apps catalogue. And also target customers with high potential buy apps, market got by Apple actually, with their ecosystem, phones and apps.
 
And also target customers with high potential buy apps, market got by Apple actually, with their ecosystem, phones and apps.
A big problem with that is these people will have bought lots of apps on their current device and migrating platform means leaving all that behind. Depending on what the apps are and what use they get, that may be thje biggest reason not to switch. The fact apps are so cheap means switching platform isn't anything like as drastic as switching your main computer platform, but it's going to count for something.

This is going OT though, unless MS announce a standardised control attachment for their Win 8 phones or something. ;) Game standardisation across XB3 and Windows phones could greatly encourage the adoption of mobiles as gaming devices as they'll get 'proper' games then. PSMobile should also promote the same with Vita as a target; even moreso if Sony would enable PSMobile on PS3.
 
Except you're dependent on them having a Windows phone, which is basically a Nokia at this point.

No you're not, which is the main point. Your same app that works on Windows Phone 8 can also be easily made to work on other Windows 8 platforms because they are all the same, so you are no longer betting the farm on one device. For example, if you make something for iOS and it doesn't sell for whatever reason, if you want to leverage that work again you have to spend more time and money to port it to other platforms or devices. On the other hand if you make something for Windows Phone 8 and it doesn't sell, then shifting it over to pc, laptop, tablet and (possibly) the next console is simple. The benefit of this is seemingly missed by the mainstream media but give them a year or so and it'll become abundantly clear.

Are Win 8 apps coming to older Windows? If they are Windows 8 exclusive, the market will be whoever upgrades, and Windows 7 is very good. Even then, the cross-device market will be limited to whoever gets a win 8 PC and a Windows phone/tablet, which is going to be a far, far, far smaller market than iOS or Android. IMO it'd be better as a developer to use a cross platform development environment and target iOS+Android if you're writing an app. There'll be opportunities for a noteworthy app to make a strong appearance on Win 8, just as there is any platform at launch (PSVita via PSMobile, Wiiware, etc.) where you have a captive audience looking for something to buy, but if you miss the small launch window, you are reliant on the market growing for it to pay back your development efforts. On the other overcrowded platforms, you are instead dependent on creating a good app and marketing. That aren't any fields of gold anywhere AFAICS.

Inevitably people will shift to Windows 8, unless like I had said that 91% marketshare of XP/Vista/7 users suddenly all decide to shift to Linux or everyone completely stops buying new pcs, laptops and tablets forever. Again mainstream media likes to paint the pc as totally dead but that's because they are either dumb or just trolling for clicks. The masses of desktop users are not going to disappear overnight, and between them, phone customers, tablet customers and hopefully console customers anyone's Windows 8 based app will have no shortage of eyeballs to buy it.

I'm already leverage this as best I can. I'll have three Windows 8 based apps on the app store before Windows 8 ships to the masses (with more to come), and the instant I get a Windows 8 phone I'll make them all work on it. I can do that because the code base is all similar so it's easy for a one man team to do that. They will also work on Windows RT tablets once they are out, I'll buy such a tablet to test them out as well. Naturally they will work on x86 Win8 tablets as well, that's another set of customers, so in mere months my apps will be purchasable by desktop users, laptop/ultrabook users, phone users, rt tablet users and x86 tablet users. Next year with the Xbox 720 comes out, if it does run Win8 apps as I suspect it will then guess what? I'll get all my apps running on Xbox 720 Indie, letting me again leverage all my work with the greatest of ease to yet another set of eyeballs. No one else offers me the ability to do this.
 
unless like I had said that 91% marketshare of XP/Vista/7 users suddenly all decide to shift to Linux
linux?, Someones caught in the old days. the paradigm is rapidly changing. I read the other day apple is now worth more than MS,google & intel combined!

In the USA, mac OS is the second largest OS at 16.03% marketshare (yes higher than XP & vista but behind win7 )
IOS sits at 5.48%
And at the rates they're growing at we could be seeing windows desktop/mobile combined drop under 50% within the next couple years. Contrast this to 5 years ago at ~90%

OK if you take a worldwide approach eg china & brazil etc then the apple OS's arent doing nearly as well, but how much money does one make in these high volume but poorer countries ;)
 
linux?, Someones caught in the old days. the paradigm is rapidly changing. I read the other day apple is now worth more than MS,google & intel combined!

In the USA, mac OS is the second largest OS at 16.03% marketshare (yes higher than XP & vista but behind win7 )
IOS sits at 5.48%
And at the rates they're growing at we could be seeing windows desktop/mobile combined drop under 50% within the next couple years. Contrast this to 5 years ago at ~90%

OK if you take a worldwide approach eg china & brazil etc then the apple OS's arent doing nearly as well, but how much money does one make in these high volume but poorer countries ;)

Well I say Linux because it seems like every second post on other websites talks about how Linux is taking over, then I look at the google analytics on my 50k+ hits per day websites and see Linux at just 1% and scratch my head :) Traffic to my websites worldwide tracks like this right now:

Windows : 78.09%
Mac OS: 6.78%
iOS: 6.20%
Android: 4.46%

Worldwide matters far more in the grand scheme of things because all that really matters is paying customers. For example in my other business venture I get 28% of my revenues from USA, the rest from around the world. There are certainly many poor countries out there, but I've been told this is the list of countries where one can make good conversion/revenue:

Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Honk Kong, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, USA

That is data from a very large player in my other business venture so not directly software related, however their data is about which countries you are most likely to convert a non paying customer to a paying customer so it's fairly important.

Point being that Windows is still important, it's just that they've been without a proper app store or cohesive platform strategy so it never came together. That's all resolved now quick excellently I may add from a developers point of view. My main wildcard now is I wonder if they will try to make the Xbox 360 be capable of running Windows 8 apps. It has the specs to do it and that's millions more eyeballs out there, I just don't know if it's worth it to them to support yet another technology set and instead just stick with x86 and Arm.

I'm definitely not gonna rag on Apple. It's very hard to get noticed on their app store but if you do you can make good coin. Most of the developers I know that tried to get on their have failed to gain any traction, although I have one buddy that has managed to get noticed and he's making some decent money. I'm going to partner with him at some point and have him port all my apps to iOS and fly them under their banner. Android is a different story though. You can read many articles about how people can't make money on Android but I prefer to get more direct examples so I've asked around and truth be told I know of no one that has been able to make money with Android. If anyone out there knows of anyone that has made money on Android then I've love to hear about their experiences.
 
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