Uncharted 3

[L. Scofield]

You can still post it in the Crysis thread if you like what's in the game. I suspect people will follow up if they have more to add. They would also be able to appreciate and see for themselves the differences, instead one 1-2 lines of out of context comments.

Oh god. The post was about Uncharted 3, not Crysis. I simply used it as an example of what I was talking about so everyone would understand. But I guess the mere sight of any other game in the thread disables the logic processing of the brain and activates the damage control mode in some people...

Next time I'll use another PS3 title as a reference. I'm sure that will go unnoticed.

 

[patsu]

Yeah I think you may want to use a stronger example and elaborate. The point in your one-two line responses and small screenshot were lost on me. I always thought screenshots are insufficient to convey game experience except may be for art direction, character design, that sort of things.

Zeroing on isolated visual features is also odd if the end user experience and scope is entirely different.

Most importantly, I think the application of technology is an art. Lens flare in so many games look cheap, fake or irritating (overdone like bloom !), but implemented so elegantly and subtly in KZ2. That's why I like to track gaming forum instead of enterprise or scientific computing. ^_^

 

[L. Scofield]

Yeah I think you may want to use a stronger example and elaborate.

I used strong examples. Censoring them simply because they're not PS3 exclusives is ridiculous.

The point in your one-two line responses and small screenshot were lost on me.

Then ask. You would think that if you get impressed by a certain thing you'd at least roughly know what it is.

I always thought screenshots are insufficient to convey game experience except may be for art direction, character design, that sort of things.

They're sufficient to show off certain graphical features, like what I posted. Also, a big problem is mixing stuff up. People talked about the water procedural shader, thinking it encompasses all the ocean and it's wave simulation, to the pool and fluid simulation or the flat volume filling up the boat, etc... They're different things that can't be simply described by a "buzzword".

Zeroing on isolated visual features is also odd if the end user experience and scope is entirely different.

Most importantly, I think the application of technology is an art. Lens flare in so many games look cheap, fake or irritating (overdone like bloom !), but implemented so elegantly and subtly in KZ2. That's why I like to track gaming forum instead of enterprise or scientific computing. ^_^

Except this is a TECHNICAL gaming forum. There's absolutely nothing wrong with analyze individual parts of the game. Doing that and appreciating the whole are not mutually exclusive concepts. And sure, this is the "game part" of the forum, but perfectly valid technical discussions start here quite naturally and then they get moved to where they're more appropriate. Simply censoring it is lazy moding.

 

[patsu]

I used strong examples. Censoring them simply because they're not PS3 exclusives is ridiculous.


Then ask. You would think that if you get impressed by a certain thing you'd at least roughly know what it is.

I think they presented their case and were greeted by one-two line responses that often did not have any explanation. Post your example in the Crysis thread and I am more than happy to take a closer look. I honestly thought the screenshot you posted is weaksauce.

They're sufficient to show off certain graphical features, like what I posted. Also, a big problem is mixing stuff up. People talked about the water procedural shader, thinking it encompasses all the ocean and it's wave simulation, to the pool and fluid simulation or the flat volume filling up the boat, etc... They're different things that can't be simply described by a "buzzword".

Except this is a TECHNICAL gaming forum. There's absolutely nothing wrong with analyze individual parts of the game. Doing that and appreciating the whole are not mutually exclusive concepts. And sure, this is the "game part" of the forum, but perfectly valid technical discussions start here quite naturally and then they get moved to where they're more appropriate. Simply censoring it is lazy moding.

Exactly ! The application of tech is equally important as the tech itself. I don't think AlStrong is censoring your exampe. I PM'ed him. He doesn't want this thread to be derailed. A one line "such and such a game has it" won't suffice (It's flawed logic and by your admission, just your personal opinion). To be fair, you did jump to conclusion too soon, like failing to see the swimming pool.

 

[L. Scofield]

I think they presented their case and were greeted by one-two line responses that often did not have any explanation. Post your example in the Crysis thread and I am more than happy to take a closer look. I honestly thought the screenshot you posted is weaksauce.

Why would I post it in the Crysis thread when I'm talking about UNCHARTED 3? It's just A REFERENCE

If you want your mind eased with a PS3 exclusive example, take a look at Uncharted 1's ocean water. It's procedurally generated.

About the animated water mesh, I only know Crysis 2 as an example, so tough luck I guess.

Take note that I'm not measuring Uncharted 3 against U1 nor C2. They're just EXAMPLES.

Exactly ! The application of tech is equally important as the tech itself. I don't think AlStrong is censoring your exampe. I PM'ed him. He doesn't want this thread to be derailed.

Which can easily be avoided by either moving the posts to the game technology thread or spawning a new thread. It's been done before and it works fine.

A one line "such and such a game has it" won't suffice (It's flawed logic and by your admission, just your personal opinion). To be fair, you did jump to conclusion too soon, like failing to see the swimming pool.

This is what I meant with "activating damage control mode".

1) Just like with deferred lighting before, people throw buzzwords thinking it's something totally new when it isn't, dismissing the development community at large to boast about their preferred exclusive. That's the case with "procedural water shader".
2) I did take into account the pool. I specifically said the game uses different techniques for different water volumes. ND has done this since at least Uncharted 1 (ocean water vs rivers, and so on).

 

[Gitaroo]

wow, I thought I'm reading the KZ3 forum a couple of months back.

 

[assurdum]

Indeed I found what I have seen definitely impressive... I'm really surprise to see opposite impressions here... a pity we haven't shows yet the desert gameplay session... I guess unchy 3 will be the king of procedural shaders with sand, flames, water (& maybe the return of snow from what I have seen in the trailer with Cloe...).

 

[patsu]

Why would I post it in the Crysis thread when I'm talking about UNCHARTED 3? It's just A REFERENCE

If you want your mind eased with a PS3 exclusive example, take a look at Uncharted 1's ocean water. It's procedurally generated.

About the animated water mesh, I only know Crysis 2 as an example, so tough luck I guess.

Take note that I'm not measuring Uncharted 3 against U1 nor C2. They're just EXAMPLES.

I remember U1 ocean water is nice, but the jetski water level is much more interesting because we can play in it. As I understand the jetski water is not simulated.

I think U2 has you fighting in waist deep, interactive water + rain at the same time. That's also interesting.

The U3 demo triumphed both above in depth and breadth because they are used better _and_ in more ways in gameplay and story.

I didn't play C2, so I won't be able to comment. ^_^

Which can easily be avoided by either moving the posts to the game technology thread or spawning a new thread. It's been done before and it works fine.

Or continue the post in the water tech thread. I remember there is one.

This is what I meant with "activating damage control mode".

1) Just like with deferred lighting before, people throw buzzwords thinking it's something totally new when it isn't, dismissing the development community at large to boast about their preferred exclusive. That's the case with "procedural water shader".
2) I did take into account the pool. I specifically said the game uses different techniques for different water volumes. ND has done this since at least Uncharted 1 (ocean water vs rivers, and so on).

I don't think anyone mentioned that the U3 water tech is new. You may be the only one thinking it. The way they use water to build up the atmosphere and gameplay though is done really well. The overall experience is new.

 

[L. Scofield]

Indeed I found what I have seen definitely impressive... I'm really surprise to see opposite impressions here... a pity we haven't shows yet the desert gameplay session... I guess unchy 3 will be the king of procedural shaders with sand, flames, water (& maybe the return of snow from what I have seen in the trailer with Cloe...).

Now that's better (except for they hyperbolic "king"part ). It's not just "it has procedural shaders so it's impressive", but rather, the specific shaders are what's impressive.

I'll wait to see more but they definitely look good.

 

[patsu]

Sand... I want to see their sand effect because ND has challenged themselves to portray sand in all its form. We saw sand in KZ2 and Journey trailers. I like the effect more than snow.

Snow is covered extensively in RFOM, MGS4, U2 and KZ3. Not sure how it can change the experience. As we have seen, fire and water may have more scope to play with.

 

[SedentaryJourney]

I hope ND aren't done fine tuning the water effects since they seem to be missing a wet shader for lots of surfaces. For example when the ship capsizes parts of the ground which used to be covered in water now appear bone dry. Whenever the water recedes from a surface it should leave behind a wet shader similar to the one used on Drake's clothing. If they add this it'll really sell the realism.

Snow is covered extensively in RFOM, MGS4, U2 and KZ3. Not sure how it can change the experience. As we have seen, fire and water may have more scope to play with.

Slightly OT but I still think RFOM has the best snowfall effect I've seen this console generation.

 

[betan]

Can someone post or direct me to the shot tkf posted?

I didn't see that swimming scene in the gameplay footage from E3.

 

[BoardBonobo]

I hope ND aren't done fine tuning the water effects since they seem to be missing a wet shader for lots of surfaces. For example when the ship capsizes parts of the ground which used to be covered in water now appear bone dry. Whenever the water recedes from a surface it should leave behind a wet shader similar to the one used on Drake's clothing. If they add this it'll really sell the realism.


Slightly OT but I still think RFOM has the best snowfall effect I've seen this console generation.

Absolutely and the best shattered glass effect.

 

[patsu]

I hope ND aren't done fine tuning the water effects since they seem to be missing a wet shader for lots of surfaces. For example when the ship capsizes parts of the ground which used to be covered in water now appear bone dry. Whenever the water recedes from a surface it should leave behind a wet shader similar to the one used on Drake's clothing. If they add this it'll really sell the realism.

Yap, I was wondering what would happen if Nathan jumped into the swimming pool in the boat scene. ^_^
Can he swim and climb out of it ?

GoW3's hand crafted, magical water is memorable too for a completely different reason.

Slightly OT but I still think RFOM has the best snowfall effect I've seen this console generation.

RFOM should have lot's of opportunity to play with snow effect because the Chimeras are heat sensitive. I also like the fact that you can shoot off the cooling pipes on the Hybrid's back and overheat it. The pipes would flail around as the compressed cold air escapes. ^_^

GT5 has good snow effect that definitely affects gameplay. the snow driving !

Absolutely and the best shattered glass effect.

Yes, and sand blasted window panes hid the enemies so you had to shatter them to see where the Chimeras were.


EDIT:

Can someone post or direct me to the shot tkf posted?

I didn't see that swimming scene in the gameplay footage from E3.

I don't see tkf's post in the last 5 pages.

 

[eloic]

Facejob.

Several weeks ago I talked about Drake's face and how I find it weird, sometimes.

Just playing with Drake's facial features with this low quality picture:

After a few minutes and tweaks, it looks like this:

Spoiler

In my humble opinion, this face is more pleasant to look at. I'm not saying that the most important thing in this game is how Drake's face looks, although truth is that the whole combination of the shape of the eyes and mouth and the thin eyebrows causes me a weird and unnatural effect.

It's just for fun.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

he makes a very strange face when he comes out of water for air in the E3 demo too. They seem to be deforming his face too much in UC3 !

 

[Antan]

I hope ND aren't done fine tuning the water effects since they seem to be missing a wet shader for lots of surfaces. For example when the ship capsizes parts of the ground which used to be covered in water now appear bone dry. Whenever the water recedes from a surface it should leave behind a wet shader similar to the one used on Drake's clothing. If they add this it'll really sell the realism.

Isn't this an issue with 99.9% of games when this sort of thing happen? When Drake get wet clearly it's there, maybe the processing needed to do on a wider scale is too much?

 

[ultragpu]

I bet there are hundreds of things ND needs to get sorted before launch, it wouldn't surprise me if the final code looks substantially different or better. Also I'm surprised ND didn't use that Caustic Photon effect from UC2, that was such a nice touch for water and would be very useful here.

 

[Prophecy2k]

If the sand effects in this game are anything like those in Journey then i might just swoon with excitment.

This game looks HOT and i can't wait to see more.

 

[patsu]

What (is) Caustic Photon effect ? I did a quick google but I don't see any reference to it in Uncharted.