Tomb Raider shadowing

[Tagrineth]

Oh, by the way, I'm gonna give an actual opinion of the overall quality now... LOL

The shots are probably some of the best I've yet seen on PS2. Jaggies are, nicely enough, cleared up a good bit by JPEG, but other than that the model and texture quality is better than what I'd expect.

The pre-mapped shadows are a very nice touch, but they remind me way too much of pre-rendered backgrounds. It's the same technique. And I do NOT like pre-rendered backgrounds. :\

 

[PC-Engine]

That's the thing. If it looks prerendered then it must be really good since it's realtime. Also keep in mind that the environment is 3D not 2D. These pics do make it look like it's 2D though.

 

[Ty]

You can probably find a bunch of Max scripts to burn in the shadows for you.

 

[Tagrineth]

That's the thing. If it looks prerendered then it must be really good since it's realtime. Also keep in mind that the environment is 3D not 2D. These pics do make it look like it's 2D though.

No, no, no, no, no...

I said they REMIND me of pre-rendered backgrounds. Because that's what shadow maps like that ARE, they are pre-rendered shadows that don't change.

 

[PC-Engine]

You can probably find a bunch of Max scripts to burn in the shadows for you.

I don't understand

 

[Teasy]

No Teasy they'll still look really good in motion because the lights are not moving so the shadows are not supposed to move either. For example the moonlit walls will still look very real because the moon is not moving relative to the architecture no matter where the camera is.

Ok, but what happens when there's an explosion in the game? If something explodes the shadows near the explosion will not change at all.. that would surely craptacular?

Still the game looks nice, I hope its actually a good game though, unlike every Tombraider that was made after the first version.

ED uses this same technique, but the quality isn't as good as this

I don't think it does, ED's shadows are not using this technique AFAIK, there rendered in real time, hence the jaggies. Surely ED's shadows change depending on different lightsources.. like explosions for instance?

 

[Ozymandis]

No Teasy they'll still look really good in motion because the lights are not moving so the shadows are not supposed to move either. For example the moonlit walls will still look very real because the moon is not moving relative to the architecture no matter where the camera is.

Ok, but what happens when there's an explosion in the game? If something explodes the shadows near the explosion will not change at all.. that would surely craptacular?

Still the game looks nice, I hope its actually a good game though, unlike every Tombraider that was made after the first version.

ED uses this same technique, but the quality isn't as good as this

I don't think it does, ED's shadows are not using this technique AFAIK, there rendered in real time, hence the jaggies. Surely ED's shadows change depending on different lightsources.. like explosions for instance?

Lightmaps combined with dynamic lighting ala Quake/Q2/Q3 can look pretty good. So in the case you stated, the explosion will light up the nearby lightmapped surfaces. Surely you've played Quake with dynamic lighting on, yes? 8)

Eternal Darkness, AFAIK, uses precompiled lighting (lightmaps) as well. I could be wrong about this though.

 

[cybamerc]

Teasy:

> Surely the shadows in ED move and distort as the character moves?

Only the character shadows. The shadows on the BGs are completely static.


PC-Engine:

> No Teasy they'll still look really good in motion because the lights are
> not moving so the shadows are not supposed to move either.

The problem with using such elaborate shadow maps is that while the BGs look very realistic because of it it accentuates the fact that the character aren't shadowed at all.

> After seeing these pics, I feel kinda let down by the visuals in ED. SK
> could've done these easily on GC yet they didn't

If it was so easy they probably would have done it

> I don't understand

The shadows are done by setting up the scene in a 3d app and rendering the shadows to textures.

 

[V3]

I don't understand

Go to Maya homepage and read the tutorial on it, than you can try it with the PE of Maya.

 

[Goldni]

Yeah this looks like what a 2nd or 3rd gen PS2 should look. Very nice. Speaking of character shadows. If you want to see some of the best go play Conker. Damn that game still impresses me.

 

[Tagrineth]

I know this doesn't really count, but if you REALLY want to see some AWESOME shadowing, try Ogre Battle 64.

Yes, I know, the graphics are 2D... but everything has a shadow based on some real light source. It looks amazing. Like when a fireball is cast, all the shadows move according to where the fireball is

 

[Vince]

cybamerc said

The problem with using such elaborate shadow maps is that while the BGs look very realistic because of it it accentuates the fact that the character aren't shadowed at all.

Might be interested, there were some new pictures released:

These captures are only 1/2 verticle resolution, so don't post about the image quality of the captures.

 

[aaaaa00]

cybamerc said

The problem with using such elaborate shadow maps is that while the BGs look very realistic because of it it accentuates the fact that the character aren't shadowed at all.

Might be interested, there were some new pictures released
(deleted)

That looks even worse. It looks like Lara's casting a stencil shadow, but the lightmaps don't have enough resolution or aren't calculated with the lightsources the stencil shadows are using...

Look how she's throwing a shadow onto a wall, but the ladder isn't.

 

[cybamerc]

Vince:

> Might be interested, there were some new pictures released:

Yep... thanks for proving my point

Seriously though, those screens are nowhere near as impressive as the others. Pretty basic environment, no detailed shadow maps and the lightsource is shining through the floor.

 

[V3]

Look how she's throwing a shadow onto a wall, but the ladder isn't.

This ain't Doom 3

 

[Tagrineth]

Actually, going back and playing Eternal Darkness some more (third and final run! ), the game DOES use premapped shadows.

HOWEVER, ED's shadows can be affected by objects in-game... i.e. enchanted weapons.

The part I played where I really noticed it was in Maximilian Roivas's chapter... right after you drain the well and go down (no not the Insanity effect ) to the left, where a M.Zombie has a rune. There are a few big pre-mapped shadows there

There are obviously more, but that was the only part I played since the discussion

 

[PC-Engine]

Update. Got to play more of ED and I have to say the later levels are very nice looking. The shadow maps in the later levels don't have the jagged soft edges like the lobby in the mansion either. They're just like the ones seen in those devkit shots of TR. However, I still wish the color palette was less cartoony. Especially nice are the shadow maps of the stair case in the cathedral level when going up.