Tokyo International Digital Conference

[Laa-Yosh]

...using current tools. Things are always improving and refining to streamline the workflow. The only way to get there is to simply do it so you have a live example and can target bottlenecks for the next time around.

Both movie VFX and CG animated features have one thing in common - rendering times for a single frame have remained constant in the past decade. The advances in technology have been used to increase complexity, and this trend will continue for at least another 5-10 years, or maybe even more... Also keep in mind that processing technology has hit a wall in the recent years, and we just don't get a 2x speed increase every 18 months anymore.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Regarding resolutions... At this time, most movie VFX and CG features use 2048*1536 pixels, and IMAX is at 4K. The 1920*1080 HD format has caught up with that, and I don't think that movies will increase the resolution in the foreseeable future.
Maybe as theatre projection advances to digital and we start to see sharper images, the pixels will also get more noticeable and thus there will be a need to increase the detail... But I have my doubts. Going for 4K res and 120fps within 5 years is totally overkill IMHO.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I saw Serenity at the cinema yesterday. I'm not a big movie goer, maybe visiting the cinema 2 or 3 times a year. It really stood out for me how rubbish the cinema is. A flickery display, not at all sharp, diabolical black levels and with the motion artefacts of a low frame rate. A 60fps non-flickering higher resolution image with true blacks is much needed IMO. As it is I get a better quality viewing at home, without the excessive volume of noise either.

The question is, could a jump happen, rather than a general progression? Is the digital projection technology in existence to support these improvements, and is the storage capacity there to film and edit such films? 4x the framerate, 4x the resolution, would need 16x the storage. That'd be how many GB a second? And that'd need to be at best on very low compression during filming and processing. Ideally it should remain uncompressed thoroughout production until final copy.

 

[Titanio]

The question is, could a jump happen, rather than a general progression? Is the digital projection technology in existence to support these improvements, and is the storage capacity there to film and edit such films? 4x the framerate, 4x the resolution, would need 16x the storage. That'd be how many GB a second? And that'd need to be at best on very low compression during filming and processing. Ideally it should remain uncompressed thoroughout production until final copy.

Digital Cinemas are coming, although I don't know how long it'll take. Here in Ireland, all cinemas are supposed to go digital in the next year or so. I know there are a few in the states.

I don't have technical specifics with regards to things like resolution though. I'm sure it could be looked up.

 

[blakjedi]

The US is slowly but surely going digital. Most multiplex cinemas have at least one all digital theater. Between lucas films, imax and Disney Digital 3d, there are quite afew production houses sponsoring all digital films as well.

Chicken Little is new to theaters and will be disneys first all digital feature film.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Digital Cinemas are coming, although I don't know how long it'll take. Here in Ireland, all cinemas are supposed to go digital in the next year or so. I know there are a few in the states.

AFAIK it was Lucas who pushed for digital and Sony provided a solution. Maybe KK has insight to the developments of Sony's upcoming film technologes?

 

[NavNucST3]

AFAIK it was Lucas who pushed for digital and Sony provided a solution. Maybe KK has insight to the developments of Sony's upcoming film technologes?

What was Sony's solution? AFAIK the digital theaters here in the states are all DLP, which would be TI, I didn't think Sony had anything to do with DLP.

 

[silhouette]

That's true.. All current digital movie theaters are DLP today. Sony is trying to get into this business with their 4kx2k SXRD technology, and TI is trying to convince people that 2kx1k tech is enough even for movie theaters and that most important thing is contrast (Btw, do not compare DLP TV's to DLP cinemas.. DLP TV's use one chip, while DLP cinema's use three chip solutions).

Also, there is already a model for digital movie distibution. So, many problems associated with digital cinema has already been solved. The switch to digital cinema has not happened, because the initial cost for switching to digital in movie theaters are enourmous. Therefore, no theater compony has seen the clear reason to switch yet.. So, all we still have a handful of demo theaters, and I do not expect this will change in the next 5 years.

 

[Carl B]

I don't know about Lucas' role in it all, but here're two articles with information on Sony's digital projector push; indeed TI is set up as the main rival in the second one.

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/4864

http://www.advancedimagingpro.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=69&id=682

Sony's going the 4k route in opposition to TI's 2k route.

EDIT: Silhouette beat me to it! But, here are the links anyway for those that want to read up.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What was Sony's solution? AFAIK the digital theaters here in the states are all DLP, which would be TI, I didn't think Sony had anything to do with DLP.

I was thinking in the cpature and editing market. Sony provided the digital cameras for Lucas AFAIK. Don't know about the digital projection market.

I'll add that in respect to this 120fps, 4000x2000 'nonsense', it's a pie-in-the-sky possibility Sony have the capture technology for this (cameras and storage) hence KK's comments that this'll become a possibility. I tend to find KK expects things to advance much quicker than they do they, by about a factor of 10 years

 

[randycat99]

What was Sony's solution? AFAIK the digital theaters here in the states are all DLP, which would be TI, I didn't think Sony had anything to do with DLP.

More precisely, I think Sony was more involved with making the actual camera equipment possible, rather than the projection equipment. It's just the other end of the process, but still a significant event.

 

[randycat99]

I saw Serenity at the cinema yesterday. I'm not a big movie goer, maybe visiting the cinema 2 or 3 times a year. It really stood out for me how rubbish the cinema is. A flickery display, not at all sharp, diabolical black levels and with the motion artefacts of a low frame rate.

I don't know if it is still possible, but if you can, you might be interested to check see that last Star Wars movie in an official DLP theater. I was quite impressed with the experience (and there is no comparison you can draw between this and what people get in a consumer "DLP" HDTV, imo). I'm completely alone on this, but it almost seems Lucas did something here that really takes the edge off that "24 fps" motion stutter. That's why I have a lot of interest in what this shift in technology can do for the movie industry. If I were to utter a word w/o being shouted down with calls of blasphemy, I would say this was 30 fps material. There will be plenty to say that this is simple not possible on the count of official documentations, but I highly suspect that there is a little more going on here than what is "officially documented".

Please do note that I only tell you this as a measure of hope for the future. Otherwise, I completely agree with your souring take on the state of film movie presentation. It really is in serious need of revamping.

 

[jvd]

IN the states everything takes a long time because of the size of the country .

Here in jersey we have 3 all digital thearters . Clifton commons has 16 digital screens now . We have the palacides mall that has 3 digital screens and 1 imax screen and then we have the new brunswick thearters that are almost all digital . last time i went they only had 4 non digital screens .

The problem is we have the loews that were built 10+ years ago and are falling apart. However now that amc has bought loews i expect them to start upgrading the old thearters to stadium seating and all digital

 

[Shifty Geezer]

IN the states everything takes a long time because of the size of the country

In the UK everything takes a long time because of the ineptitude of the Administration. In the EU everything takes a long time because of the excesses of Beurocracy.

 

[jvd]

In the UK everything takes a long time because of the ineptitude of the Administration. In the EU everything takes a long time because of the excesses of Beurocracy.

the usa is still the largest user of checks .

Most european countrys and japan have already abandond checks , but we wont be done with them till 2015 at the earliest .

We take the short yellow bus to school

 

[Shifty Geezer]

As refreshingly different from 'my console is better than your console' an argument on 'my country is more backward than your country' would be, we're already way off topic

 

[dubyateeeff]

The bigger the display is, the further back we must sit to be able to take in the whole picture that when we move back the pixels will look smaller to our eyes, so much so that we wont notice individual pixels if the resolution is high enough. I think that resolution is just above 1080.

But what is the optimal framerate?

 

[NavNucST3]

More precisely, I think Sony was more involved with making the actual camera equipment possible, rather than the projection equipment. It's just the other end of the process, but still a significant event.

For anyone that cares: "Using a prototype digital acquisition system consisting of a Panavision modified Sony HDW-F900 integrated camera recorder, a series of carefully prescribed tests were initiated by teams from ILM and Lucasfilm working in conjunction with Sony and Panavision. These tests, which include image performance and system functionality culminated in comparative shoots with motion picture film, convinced George Lucas and producer, Rick McCallum of the benefits of shooting in digital 24P at 1920 x 1080 HD sampling."

We really should start a new thread...

 

[mckmas8808]

For anyone that cares: "Using a prototype digital acquisition system consisting of a Panavision modified Sony HDW-F900 integrated camera recorder, a series of carefully prescribed tests were initiated by teams from ILM and Lucasfilm working in conjunction with Sony and Panavision. These tests, which include image performance and system functionality culminated in comparative shoots with motion picture film, convinced George Lucas and producer, Rick McCallum of the benefits of shooting in digital 24P at 1920 x 1080 HD sampling."

We really should start a new thread...

Wow so maybe Ken K. is on to something.