Thoughts on the expense of PS3
- Thread starter Tars Tarkus
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Moonblade said:
At a minimum, they should pack in a demo disc with HDTV clips, maybe some with interactivity features which set it apart from DVD besides the image quality.
What they should do is put in a coupon for a couple of free Blu-Ray movies you can mail in for. That is what they did with DVD players.
I expect a psp "sample" umd disc type deal. One disc that features demos/samples of videos, music, and games. Would work well with the blu-ray disc, meaning lots of content. And probably throw in a coupon or two in there like you mentioned, I think they put in a 5 or 10 dollar coupon with the psp. I also remember getting a free game (twisted metal black online) with the ps2 network adaptor.wco81 said:
The problem is that this is the wrong perspective; it's not about whether something has a good value for the technology it delivers. It's about whether it delivers the right technology at the right time for the right price. Certainly if people view Blu-ray as a killer app, it's a great price for a great feature. But if people are ambivalent about Blu-ray and are primarily interested in the PS3 for the games, then it's not the right technology, even if the price might be right. Or, it may be the right technology, just a couple years too early for consumers.Urian said:
Urian said:
The problem though is that (using the millions in the PS2 user base for example) the majority are going to be looking for the playstation game console. Not the playstation HD entertainment system all in one package. Thats the problem with the 500-600 dollar/euro package, is that its taking it further away from a true gaming console and more into the integrated digital media computer for your living room. Sony would proclaim thats their goal, i just dont know how well its going to fly. I think they could of done a chopped down version easily if they were dedicated enough missing mainly the BD/HDMI and HDD (memory cards only). I think the transition may be too extreme.
I still say the sexiest design would of been if they made the DVD Disc drives removable and marketed the BD as an accessory for 150 or something as a drive you could just pop in. I cant help but think to myself what a waste that was this early in HD content. I would be pretty shocked if more then 5% of the current owners of PS2 own HDTV ready sets.
crystalcube
Newcomer
SugarCoat said:
You really can't speak about what the majority of playstation owners want. As I dont think you know what they want , you may know about a few in your circle but that would hardly represent the majority. The people who visit beyond3d forum also do not represent that majority.
That again may not be right way to look at it, when you are trying to see who will buy PS3. Right way to look at it would be how many HDTV owners be inclined to buy PS3, I think quite a lot. With HDTV prices falling by Nov 2006 there will be many who would like to make best use of HDTVs they bought.SugarCoat said:
So then they will look at options Xbox360 + HDDVD or Standalone HD-DVD/Blu-Ray or PS3.
So what happens if all these people with HDTV's buy a PS3 for its Blu Ray and not play games, or only decide to buy a few games (3 or less) throughout the system's lifespan? Is the tradeoff in price enough for Sony to justify losing lots of marketshare to less expensive game consoles?
The price is a problem for those of us not interested in paying such a premium for a video game system. Its primary use to me is to play video games, not watch HD movies. Sure, watching HD movies on it will be a nice bonus, but that isn't the reason for me to purchase it, the reason for me to purchase it is to play video games.
I'll probably get one regardless of the price, jus tbecause it has gameson it that I will wish to play and keep. But at that price it definitely isn't something for the mainstream, and if it remains that way going into the 2007 holiday season then Sony really did do MS a big favor with their incredibly high price.
Some people may feel that there is a lot of value in the $600 PS3, but I doubt those looking at it as primarily a gaming machine will find that value at that price. And before anyone argues that I do not represent the majority, I acknowledge that and this is my own belief. The price is too high to put it in the simplest terms. If Kuturagi wants to market the PS3 to be much more than a gaming system there is nothing wrong with that. It might be a small sign that Sony is losing focus that will allow other companies to come in and take their marketshare away.
We've seen it happen in the past.
The price is a problem for those of us not interested in paying such a premium for a video game system. Its primary use to me is to play video games, not watch HD movies. Sure, watching HD movies on it will be a nice bonus, but that isn't the reason for me to purchase it, the reason for me to purchase it is to play video games.
I'll probably get one regardless of the price, jus tbecause it has gameson it that I will wish to play and keep. But at that price it definitely isn't something for the mainstream, and if it remains that way going into the 2007 holiday season then Sony really did do MS a big favor with their incredibly high price.
Some people may feel that there is a lot of value in the $600 PS3, but I doubt those looking at it as primarily a gaming machine will find that value at that price. And before anyone argues that I do not represent the majority, I acknowledge that and this is my own belief. The price is too high to put it in the simplest terms. If Kuturagi wants to market the PS3 to be much more than a gaming system there is nothing wrong with that. It might be a small sign that Sony is losing focus that will allow other companies to come in and take their marketshare away.
We've seen it happen in the past.
Psychogenics
Newcomer
SugarCoat said:
I own one and I brought the PS2 MAINLY because it offered DVD out of the box.And Idon't agree with the removeable drives thing as it won't get games support killing Sony's stragedy right of the back.
crystalcube said:
Sorry but you just made zero sense to me. The people who own playstation 2's currently, the tens of millions of them, dont want to continue their gaming experiance on the PS3? Are you saying i cant assume that? Because you'd be completely wrong if you are. HD content and hardware is a transitional step. Its going to take time to leak its way into the common persons home, and that certainly includes all those PS2 users. Colour TV, VCR's, DVD players, all these things took a decade or more from their introduction to become common place. Thats my basis for my theory, and i believe it is far more correct then either no assumption at all, or thinking that the PS3 as some state of the art digital media center is going to sell well. There certainly isnt an HDTV ready set in every home, or even close to that. People want a game console, they're going to look at the PS3 price tag, and wonder what the heck differs that from its competition. Not everyone is going to run out and switch their DVD sets over to Blue-Ray Disc or drop a grand or more on a new TV cause the PS3 says you should. The most important thing is who can get their price to the $200 mark the fastest since that seems to be the best selling point for consoles. Sony has already lost any chance at that.
Very very few people are going to find the value in the 600 dollar PS3. I am not saying its a bad price, because its not, it gives you alot. But most people arent going to need or want to exploit the key elements that makes it so expensive. The next step down at 500, isnt much better in terms of price, and it also takes away a few of the important bonuses that the PS3 has that the user may want some day. For you to state that i cant come to any conclusion based on the past and other facts is absurd. I'm not getting my conclusions or theory from a magic eight ball
.Sonic you are speaking as part of the majority when you say its hard to see the value in a $600 dollar console in comparison to its competitors speaking only in terms of a gaming platform.
Psychogenics said:
Yea, DVD transition sure was great wasnt it? Big difference from those stupid VHS tapes. Took up less space, better sound and picture quality, not having to rewind. You know what though? Blue-Ray wont have the same appeal to Joe and Jane Regular. DVD didnt require you to get a new TV to use it fully. Now people get to replace their DVD library and TV. Its going to take quite a bit of time. HD content wont be accepted as easily or as fast as DVD. It will certainly happen, but it will take quite awhile.
Are Blue-Ray Discs going to be used on games from day one? Hadnt read that if its true.
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Psychogenics
Newcomer
SugarCoat said:
I have too Disagree since there are other factors here like HD signals being swithched over and all this HD content coming out ...How long will it be before DVD starts to look like VHS?Like I said I'll buy a PS3 because of the BD First than gaming.
You don't have to have an HDTV to be able to use the PS3, just as you don't need an HDTV to enjoy the X360. Obviously an HDTV enhances the experience greatly. Both Sony and MS bet that the adoption rate of HDTV is high enough that a lot of console gamers will own an HDTV in the next 5 years. Nintendo obviously hopes HDTV isn't a factor.
You can still view Blu-Ray movies on a regular TV. You obviously lose a lot but less likely to have artifacts even on an SD TV.
You can still view Blu-Ray movies on a regular TV. You obviously lose a lot but less likely to have artifacts even on an SD TV.
crystalcube
Newcomer
That is a possibility.Sonic said:
Because you were linking PS3 purchase to Ps2 users with HDTV. And I am saying there maybe some relation but you cant draw any conclusions without any data. The PS2 owners who would like to continue their experience would not care about HDTV. For them HDTV & Blu-ray are just added bonus, if they choose to buy PS3.SugarCoat said:
The people for whom $200 price point is critical ( in 2006 ) they will be happy with Wii or maybe Xbox360
. And you have facts to proove your point about console which hasn't even launched yet.SugarCoat said:I'm not getting my conclusions or theory from a magic eight ball
You simply can't assume that wanting to "continue their gaming experiance on the PS3" excludes wanting a complete entertainment package. For those who just want to "continue their gaming experiance on the PS3" and nothing else, there is the $500 SKU, positioned against the $400 360 premium pack. $100 premium could be justified, if not by superior gaming performance, then at least the games that have made them PS2 fans (as apparent by the millions of PS2 gamers, and I am one of them). It isn't a simple hardware shell when you buy a console.SugarCoat said:
HD uptake is irrelevant to next gen console uptake. You were every bit as eager to "jump in" for the 360, weren't you? As crystalcube pointed out, HDTV isn't a necessary ingredient to enjoy any of the new consoles; PS3 is not an exception. If the blu-ray drive concerns you, perhaps you can rest assured that every bit of it will be necessary, if only for a proportion of games that will be utilising the capacity (that no DVD can provide).
No, you just assume too much.I'm not getting my conclusions or theory from a magic eight ball
Honestly? By the time HD is the norm we'll problably be talking about the PS4.
Thus the problem with Sony's strategy and component choices which resulted in a significant higher cost. 100% more then the previous console launch price (for best SKU).
===
Take a look at polls and comments. Nobody likes the price point the PS3 is at. As i said they're pushing too much too soon. You can disagree all you like but the proof is self evident if you have any common sense as to what the basic user waits for. HDTV is integral to Xbox360 and PS3 in my opinion. But thats my opinion. Without HD, the buyer is going to be faced with one console at considerably more then the competition with little to no discernable difference in quality other then cosmetics and specific titles.
By the time the PS3 is in decent stock the Xbox360 Premium SKU will be more then $100 below it Onanie. They're all setup for their first price cut due to increased yields/ reduced component costs coming november. The result of the coming battle will be these two main consoles that both will support the same key features in the general users eyes with one priced considerably more. Once again i'm aware the PS3 is a wet dream to some of you because you plan to fully utilize its every function, but the number of people who can say the same is miniscule. This is the furthest departure from a simple gaming console Sony has done yet, and its cost them ALOT of money; i think their ambitions in what they think people will accept are too high, we shall see.
standing ovation
Regular
A lot of folks on other boards have been trying to make a parallel between the PS3 pricing and the launch of the 3DO, but I don't think they match up well. Your average consumer had no idea what 3DO was or did. Everyone knows what a PS3 is.
The problem Sony is going to face is one they've never had to contend with before: real competition. Say all you will about the Dreamcast, it was neither as well supported as the Xbox 360 and had no killer app or unique functionality such as the Wii is going to launch with in terms of Zelda and the Wiimote. Here's the choice the vast majority of console consumers - parents - are going to face when they go to Best Buy the day after Thanksgiving:
1) PS3 - on display but unavailable for purchase. In fact, it's been unavailable for over a week now in stores and is available only on Ebay for a minimum reserve of $900. For the 20 gb version.
2) Xbox 360 - available with a lot of games. Set up right next to the PS3 display. Dad can tell no difference between the racing game demos on the PS3 and the Xbox 360. Except that the 360 controller rumbles when you hit a wall.
3) Wii - there's a ring of kids around the child playing Zelda under the watchful eye of a Best Buy employee. There's a 5 minute limit on each kid to play on the unit, and even the parents can't help but smile at the TV remote being used to control the action on screen by pointing. Unfortunately, they sold out at opening this morning to the folks that had been camped out since closing on the day before Thanksgiving, but a new shipment is due next week. Oh, did we mention you can buy the console AND Zelda for the price of an Xbox 360 itself?
Forget the 3DO analogy. Sony's situation reminds me of one of my favorite ironies: at one time, TLC (the singing group) was the top grossing female touring group in the country and bankrupt at the same time. Sony will represent the same this holiday season - massive sales and shortages initially, but the mindshare is going to be lost after the New Year along with the demand, as children have their Wiis and existing Xbox 360s to play with, and your average parent, even those who could reasonably afford to, will not pay $500 for a console (without a game!) outside of the holiday season. The hardcore gamers will have theirs. Who, then, will be left to buy the PS3?
The problem Sony is going to face is one they've never had to contend with before: real competition. Say all you will about the Dreamcast, it was neither as well supported as the Xbox 360 and had no killer app or unique functionality such as the Wii is going to launch with in terms of Zelda and the Wiimote. Here's the choice the vast majority of console consumers - parents - are going to face when they go to Best Buy the day after Thanksgiving:
1) PS3 - on display but unavailable for purchase. In fact, it's been unavailable for over a week now in stores and is available only on Ebay for a minimum reserve of $900. For the 20 gb version.
2) Xbox 360 - available with a lot of games. Set up right next to the PS3 display. Dad can tell no difference between the racing game demos on the PS3 and the Xbox 360. Except that the 360 controller rumbles when you hit a wall.
3) Wii - there's a ring of kids around the child playing Zelda under the watchful eye of a Best Buy employee. There's a 5 minute limit on each kid to play on the unit, and even the parents can't help but smile at the TV remote being used to control the action on screen by pointing. Unfortunately, they sold out at opening this morning to the folks that had been camped out since closing on the day before Thanksgiving, but a new shipment is due next week. Oh, did we mention you can buy the console AND Zelda for the price of an Xbox 360 itself?
Forget the 3DO analogy. Sony's situation reminds me of one of my favorite ironies: at one time, TLC (the singing group) was the top grossing female touring group in the country and bankrupt at the same time. Sony will represent the same this holiday season - massive sales and shortages initially, but the mindshare is going to be lost after the New Year along with the demand, as children have their Wiis and existing Xbox 360s to play with, and your average parent, even those who could reasonably afford to, will not pay $500 for a console (without a game!) outside of the holiday season. The hardcore gamers will have theirs. Who, then, will be left to buy the PS3?
crystalcube
Newcomer
and a real competition which has more money to spare than Sony.bunapi said:
Interesting scenarios you presented and very likely too. After E3 Sony has already lost some ( maybe a lot ) of mindshare and if there is a poor execution at launch it will further slip.
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