The wisdom of Rumsfeld
- Thread starter CosmoKramer
- Start date
The threat from terrorism isn't my individual risk of dying. It is the damage done to our economy and our institutions.
You yourself are ranting in another thread about how bad the Patriot act is, well, thank terrorism. Killing 3,000 people isn't a huge loss (although they did all happen to be highly skilled/educated people in unique positions at the center of world finance) It's the repercussions that such attacks have on the system as a whole. Airlines shutdown, bankrupt, travel curtailed, billions lost, billions more reallocated. 9/11 will kill more people world wide because of money lost to the world economy, than the actual attack.
The question is, what happens when a biological attack is staged (fairly cheap to execute) or an Aum Shinryko style nerve-gas attack. There is the potential because of modern technology for terrorists to kill not just thousands, but millions. And that surely IS one of the biggest threats to the world.
Put your head in the sand all you want. I would rather that we be wary of terrorism rather than just hand wave the issue away as you would like to. How many terrorist attacks have been prevented? I don't know, you tell me. You'll need to know this data before you can blindly start ranting about how terrorism isn't a real threat.
You yourself are ranting in another thread about how bad the Patriot act is, well, thank terrorism. Killing 3,000 people isn't a huge loss (although they did all happen to be highly skilled/educated people in unique positions at the center of world finance) It's the repercussions that such attacks have on the system as a whole. Airlines shutdown, bankrupt, travel curtailed, billions lost, billions more reallocated. 9/11 will kill more people world wide because of money lost to the world economy, than the actual attack.
The question is, what happens when a biological attack is staged (fairly cheap to execute) or an Aum Shinryko style nerve-gas attack. There is the potential because of modern technology for terrorists to kill not just thousands, but millions. And that surely IS one of the biggest threats to the world.
Put your head in the sand all you want. I would rather that we be wary of terrorism rather than just hand wave the issue away as you would like to. How many terrorist attacks have been prevented? I don't know, you tell me. You'll need to know this data before you can blindly start ranting about how terrorism isn't a real threat.
DemoCoder said:
I dont like to repeat my self, but I haven't seen any of these incredibly dangerous attacks you are talking about in the last two years. Killing millions? The risk of killing your self was 100 times higher than dieing for an attak in 2001 (the year of the last and sole terrorist attack in USA history). These are real numbers. You are just talking of what might be in the future, but you have NO proof of that, NO proof whatsoever there will be an attack, NO proof there's even a terrorist organisation, and the only country protecting the few terrorists USA have found is backed up by the current USA govern. That's quiet surprising.
I think your economy is threated more by tax cuts, lack of education and welfare state, energy lobbies without looking for an enemy outside.
It's not me who's hiding his head under the sand.
Right, lets wait until millions are dead before we consider it a threat.
That is the definition of sticking your head in the sand.
What exactly are you trying to say here? Al Qaeda doesn't exist? Islamic Jihad/Jemail Islamia either?
That is the definition of sticking your head in the sand.
Well terrorism certainly does exist buyt they have meager means at their disposal unless supported by a state. In this case terrorist have been around for along time yet have never demonstrated serious emans at their disposal. I think the reason for that are quite clear. Any state giving serious emans to terrorist it cant likley control wills ee itself targeted in no time.
Which was the main crux of my opposition to the war in Iraq. In taking Saddams state away from him we very likely could have seen terrorists finally have the mean to commit serious acts of terrorism that involve more than box cutters.
Seeing that our intelligence was so wrong on Saddams wmd programs as all indicates they were much weaker than suspected to be. God only knows what could have happened had it been much stronger. What might still happen if something is still in the pipe on our way...
The only real clear example of putting ones head in the sand is the resurgence of warlords and the taliban in Afghanistan in a country that has recieved maybe 10% of what it needs to be rebuilt and stabilized...
Which was the main crux of my opposition to the war in Iraq. In taking Saddams state away from him we very likely could have seen terrorists finally have the mean to commit serious acts of terrorism that involve more than box cutters.
Seeing that our intelligence was so wrong on Saddams wmd programs as all indicates they were much weaker than suspected to be. God only knows what could have happened had it been much stronger. What might still happen if something is still in the pipe on our way...
The only real clear example of putting ones head in the sand is the resurgence of warlords and the taliban in Afghanistan in a country that has recieved maybe 10% of what it needs to be rebuilt and stabilized...
Which is why the recent $87 billion was for rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan.
So if no attack is successful in two years, that mean's terrorism is over?fek said:
2001 wasn't the only terrorist attack in our history. For someone who brags about reading books, you certainly are ignorant.
Do you understand the difference between bombing a building, and setting unleasing a biological or radiological weapon, neither of which, contrary to pax, need state support.
What's quite surprising is your ignorance. No terrorist organizations?
Yeah, it's so threatened by lack of socialism that it is recovering, while Eurozone economies are still struggling. When you have a trauma or you're old and need assistance, let's see how much you talk about your NHS, which as the BBC continually reports, has a pathetic track record.
But now that you mention it, the biggest enemy is socialism within. The largest terrorist attack of 2003 was 10,000+ helpless French people dying from a bad welfare state, healthcare system, short-socialist workweek with too much vacation, and a lack of modern amenities such as air conditioning. (p.s. just remember, you started this little tangent, since you are unable to prove any of your Patriot Act hyperbole by actual citation and comparison of legal text)
Willmeister
Newcomer
You realize how doctors in the UK play the NHS? The cripple the NHS so they can refer patients to their private practices where they can charge whatever they want and not have to worry about government caps.
DemoCoder said:
Except you cant list one issue that has been distorted in mainstream understanding by such small outfits like Indymedia but the clear distortion that most americans believe about Iraq (that it was involved in 9\11 and supported al quaeda) was clearly encouraged by Fox and to lesser extents the other major networks.
This is far more serious as manipulation of widescale public opinion is far mroe dangerous (especially when it leads to war). It pretty much shows the lack of accountability of mainstream networks. Im not worried about small internet outfits whose opinions rarely leave college campuses and even then... They cant even begin to compare with the influence of the national enquirer er I mean Fox...
I can:pax said:
I don't ever remember Fox encouraging the idea that Iraq was involved in the WTC attacks, or directly supported Al Qaeda. They did, accurately, state that Saddam supports terrorism (via martyr grants), and that there were terrorist training facilities in Iraq and sanctioned by Saddam.
Most americans believe in God, UFOs, and that Elvis is still alive. Is that Fox's fault?
In France, a book which claimed that the 9/11 attacks were remote controlled planes by the CIA and that the Jews were given advanced warning to leave the building was a number one best seller. Think this point of view came from Le Monde? No, it came from stupid internet sites.
The "4000 jews left the building that day" rumor was circulated by Arabs on the internet, and grew in the telling, and before long, all sorts of elaborate essays with "evidence" and "facts" appeared to back it up.
Sorry, it may be flawed, but I prefer to get my media from people who went to journalism school and atleast try, although it is impossible, to remain objective and follow some rules of thumb for the dos-and-don'ts.
In France, a book which claimed that the 9/11 attacks were remote controlled planes by the CIA and that the Jews were given advanced warning to leave the building was a number one best seller. Think this point of view came from Le Monde? No, it came from stupid internet sites.
The "4000 jews left the building that day" rumor was circulated by Arabs on the internet, and grew in the telling, and before long, all sorts of elaborate essays with "evidence" and "facts" appeared to back it up.
Sorry, it may be flawed, but I prefer to get my media from people who went to journalism school and atleast try, although it is impossible, to remain objective and follow some rules of thumb for the dos-and-don'ts.
That story wasnt carried much in NA and if you polled about it Im sure 90% of the people have never even heard of it. Im looking at both right wing and left wing radical sites and cant see a single conspiracy idea or theme that is believed by the mainstream like the one about Saddam supporting al quaeda and being invloved in 9\11...
Im not defending the exaggerations by Indymedia or right wing wacko sites like WRH. I just dont see their influence as anywhere near Fox or cnn's ect...
Belief in God or ufo's or Elvis hasnt led to war... yet...
Dear God in a flying saucer lets not go to war over Elvis! hehhehe... LOL
Im not defending the exaggerations by Indymedia or right wing wacko sites like WRH. I just dont see their influence as anywhere near Fox or cnn's ect...
Belief in God or ufo's or Elvis hasnt led to war... yet...
Dear God in a flying saucer lets not go to war over Elvis! hehhehe... LOL
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