The Technology of GTA IV/RDR *Rage Engine*

I haven't noticed any, not that there hasn't been any.

 

no tearing on my dlp set w/360 here either

 

In this case though that seems to be more a fact of the presentation than of the facts. I think both versions have their flaws, but this pair of enlarged shots shows some very big differences between the two.

Are these screenshots legit? Does anyone know? Because the difference in the flags and in the textures is huge. (AlphaWolf, are you looking at the same part of the screen? The difference is really rather strong. Or is your display calibrated that dark?)

If they are in fact using HDR in both, then that would explain more jaggies in the PS3 version because that doesn't have MSAA in combination with FP16, and in that case the upscaling actually works to its benefit somewhat (less of a jaggy mess). If it does have some AA, then it seems to be QCAA, which is still consistent with FP16. If the 360 is also using its HDR mode (FP10, right?) and if that limits alpha blending, then it explains why the blending here perhaps is done in that other 'pixely' mode. We often see these two being different in various games, sometimes the 360 has alpha and the PS3 doesn't, and vice versa (as in Sega Rally)

 

I don't know which sign you mean there as the signs are all looking about the same to me in readability, with most of the PS3 signs being pretty blurred, but...

This is very true. And look at the flags at the top! Just a splodge on XB360.

 

Interesting. I guess one of two things was going on then. Either we had extreme overdraw (at the time), or there was a transparent pass going the fp16 route. Still though, a ps3-only dev friend told me that fp16 was slower and suggested not using it on opaque. So I'm only going by what we saw and what's been suggested to us, even if on paper it seems like it shouldn't matter.

I'll opt out of this thread and let everyone else continue their chat.

 

After squinting at the screen for 10 seconds, I realized that he's talking about that dark arrow at the center of the screen (It says "Dental Center"). Do you really need to see a dentist in the game ??? All these details don't matter. The 360 shot is indeed sharper but can be a blurry mess too (That 3 lines of pennants over the roof look like 3 lines of fungus; The "Pizza" and "Salad" banners in front of the store are also messed up). This is hardly a BR vs DVD comparison. They are both not great in details.

I am more interested in the dynamic behaviour because I am interested to see the glitches Saw someone got out in the middle of a car crash + barrel roll, and the vehicle got stucked in the road (with 1/5 of the car burried in the road at an angle). If there is a known pop-in/loading in a cross street, does it make that area easier to glitch ? Or is it orthogonal ?

 

The signpost that isn't directly on the building, with blue letters on a white background, and a red triangular pointer pointing right. It's right in the middle of the image - I can see that you'd miss it because there are so many signs saying 'Dental' but this particular one is very much unreadable on the 360 and quite readable on the PS3, so you might want to look on the PS3 image first when trying to find it.

No wonder people like versus threads and comparing PS3 and 360 screenshots - it's what we've been primed to do in kindergarten.

 

I think screen size/viewing distance is important. I've noticed sitting further back (360 version) GTA looks considerably better which may account for some people preferring a bit of blur applied. If you're sitting close to a large screen GTA can look pretty rough, all the 'uglies' become very noticeable.

I think a lot of people are buying massive screens thinking they can sit with their nose pressed against them because consoles are now HD. I have a 40" screen and 1280x720 still isn't nearly enough to sit very close to it. 6' or so is a good viewing distance for me.

 

Those SSs are taken from

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yoda-dip-jp/

I'm pretty sure most of us in this forum are familiar with this place

http://yoda.dip.jp/Game/GTA4/GTA4_13_360.png
http://yoda.dip.jp/Game/GTA4/GTA4_13_PS3.png

 

My theory: lots of stuff like signs and logos are rendered via multiple passes (opaque + alpha) with alpha to coverage.
This might explain the dithering..

 

I've noticed when driving in a cab (as a passenger) looking through the transparent windows of that cab (on PS3) sometimes the banners and signs outside are flickering (but only the characters, not the whole sign with e.g. the border etc. really just the "inner text"). So it seems there are definately multiple "layers" or passes upon them.

 

I adjusted my settings for maximum brightness to see anything at all, its still just a blur for me on my 22" crt. There's obvious evidence of the dithering on 360 and obvious evidence of the blur on the ps3 shot, but I wouldn't consider any of the text readable aside from the word Dental unless I put my face 2inches from the screen.

 

try again, i just added highlights and increased gamma

 

I think I finally understand why some would say the PS3 version looks better because artistically the blur of the PS3 image blends in nicely with the blur background/silhouette in the distance like a natural DOF, where the 360 image is clear and crisp then suddenly jarringling blurred when creeping into the distant background/silhouette

 

I own both consoles and have played both versions through HDMI (I own the 360 version of the game)

The PS3 version looks better IMO. The pop-in is like 3x's worse on the 360 and the shadow flicker is enough to give me a head ache.

Both run the same in SP but the 360 has a more solid framerate in MP.

I mean, look at the flags in the shots above....

Mod Edit: Please excise quoted pics, just reference the post with the pics you're referencing.

 

Well the 360 version indeed has more pop-ins, but the PS3 has more fierce LOD work going on. When you're driving under subway rail, you could easily notice shadow changes its shape as you approach, I find it just as annoying as pop-ins. I'd call it even for pop-ins

 

Im not either, but I would rather have that then looking at walls that are covered with crawling ants! or tress that are populated with something that doesnt remotely resemble leaves....or shadows that flicker so much that I refuse to drive under the train tracks...or pop-in so bad every time I zoom in with an AR a building appears!!

Also, it sounds like my 360 is gonna exploded while playing this game...

Other then that, the game is a 10!!

 

Being drunk and getting in a cab and asking him to step on it, motion blur from the speed plus the drunk effect causes a horrible graphical glitches.

 

I was thinking the same thing, but that doesn't explain why it varies with distance:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1155973&postcount=85
Another example is on the laundry machines here:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1156737#post1156737

BTW, I'd be happy for you to chime in somewhere in that thread if you have time.