The Order: 1886

[Prophecy2k]

Well, so far the playable snippets of gameplay they've released publically all looked incredibly boilerplate (the gunplay) if not downright awful (the stealth segments and the qtes). It just happens to look really pretty, and just about everyone is in agreement on that too. Calling it what it is isn't being irrational or hateful.

This is a criticism that I wouldn't argue with. As I can appreciate such a criticism based on what has been shown outside of the most recent stuff. I actually agreed with this, until I saw the latest trailers and TV spots that showed more of the weapons and gunplay off.

I wanna play the game because I want to experience the game's visuals for myself, but that is literally the only reason right now. As an interactive experience, I think it looks utterly shit. Most writers aren't graphics whores above all else though, so the general reaction to the game hardly comes as a surprise.

This however, just seems like an irrational presumption to me. As, fair enough the game looks like it isn't doing anything new in the gameplay mechanics field, but if you are a fan of TPS's in general, I cannot see how you can look at games like RE4/5/6, GeoW, Uncharted, Max Payne 3, Binary Domain's gameplay and this, and then go on to say that this looks like "utter shit", as an interactive experience. Does it really look any less interactive than those games mentioned? Do the QTE's or gunplay balance appear in any significant way different to Resisdent Evil 4 for example?

I can only interpret your statement to say that you just don't like TPS gameplay, in which case that's fair, but then it's not a criticism of this game, but the entire genre that you don't like. In such a case you're impression of the game becomes pretty irrelevant to me (and I mean no offence by that), as I definintely love Third Person Shooters, and I'm expecting this game to be as enjoyable to play as any of the ones I've mentioned.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I'm not a huge Uncharted fan. I think the series' gunplay has never been particularly great. It has a lot of charme though, the protagonist is uncharacteristically mobile, and the shooting is nicely bolstered by entertaining puzzles and other set pieces. RE6? Now that was just a pretty awful game through and through. I think the RE4 comparison is a little silly, though. That game does so much more than your average tps game. In terms of sheer enemy variety and combat scenarios it's still pretty much a unicorn in the genre. It also gets bosses right (very few games do). Heck, it even gets QTEs (mostly) right. Then there's of course level design, character progression, ammo conservation, challenge. RE4 basically nailed it all. As for Binary Domain: I didn't care for it all that much, but very few games managed to turn the act of mowing down generic enemy grunts into such a sadistic pleasure. It kinda lost me at its boss battles though.

The Order just doesn't seem like it has a compelling hook besides looking pretty. I've fired exotic guns before. I think a new Gears of War game that was just more of the same wouldn't elicit an awful lot of enthusiasm from the press in this day and age either, by the way. Even though its core mechanics were always really strong. (way better than Uncharted's if you ask me) I'll grant you that calling The Order's gameplay utterly shit was a little hyperbolic on my end, though, so let's go with the my earlier description of boilerplate instead. And that seems to be the current consensus too: very pretty game that's rather meh to play. There's no irrational hatred in that kinda statement.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Have you read the edge preview? What do you have to criticize about that? I have not seen any example of this game being targeted unfairly, but maybe you have?

Some of EDGE's criticisms make me a little anxious but some to be overblown or easily overlooked in a final game.

For example they noted that that in some scenes the cameras field of view only has a minimal I think they said 15 degrees?) sway but this seems limited to some outdoor areas where there's no combat or interactivity. It seems the decision may have been made to minimize the size of the world to be rendered. However plenty of official videos and videos from demos or events like PSX show a great deal of camera control where it matters, like in combat.

They also called out the game for slight pauses when transitioning between what appear to be little more than interactive cutscenes and gameplay, such as they the team rapel down the size of the airship. This is a niggle that plagues many games, including GTA V where the game is switching from something very scripted, to free play. Ditto, lining up your third party protagonist with a door, lever or some other object. Holding The Order to some higher standard when the same isused have gone unmentioned by the EDGE in other games is a bit rich.

The aspects of it that I'm not keen on is the QTE combat branching, bad stealth and the interspersed mini-games like picking locks. Having said that, there were QTE events within Shadow of Mordor's combat and it worked absolutely fine - it really only became an issue if you weren't paying attention in combat becuase it was generally the QTE for last chance recovery. Bad stealth is, I hope, limited to a few areas. And hopefully the mini-games are similarly restricted to stealth areas perhaps to add some pacing.

I'm far less fussed about non-adpative animations when characters pick things up, like ammo or health items.

 

[Prophecy2k]

Can't argue with that sigfried1977. Although personally I would maintain that our judgement of The Order 1886, in comparison to those other mentioned titles is based on video... and only minute slivers of mostly the same areas too. Until we get the game in our hands we can't make any definitive statements about things like level design, boss battles, story, charm etc. So whilst I agree much of what has been shown hasn't been all that impressive gameplaywise, we must also admit that much of what has been shown hasn't exactly been much of anything at all.

Perhaps the game really is a cut-scene/QTE-fest with limited player agency, and RAD has been too ashamed to fully show it off for fear of consumer backlash. Or maybe the story being such and integral part of the gameplay experience, RAD have decided (perhaps to the detriment of the game's pre-release hype) to limit what they show so that gamers will be truly WOWed come release. At this stage we can't say, so I think it always more prudent to reserve judgement rather then cry wolf/foul with very little evidence to substantiate your claims ;-) (this not directed at you, but others on the net)

I get the distinct impression that this game is gonna surprise alot of people. And that the horror elements are going to play a bigger part than has been thus far communicated through the drip fed media released... I'd like to hope so at least.

Eitherway, I will remain cautiously optimitic. As even if the gameplay doesn't end up being anything more than servicable, so long as the story is good, I'll be entertained.

 

[Sigfried1977]

GTAV was frequently called out for its oddly constricted mission design actually. Maybe not by edge (and what does edge mean anyway? Did the dude who wrote the Order preview also cover GTA5?), but certainly by plenty of other outlets. In the grand scope of GTAV, having a bunch of missions that don't quite deliver also isn't that big of a deal. The game has 66 of them after all.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Well, as far as I am concerned, I don't see any problem with the game. Has an enigmatic story and setting, great characterisations, exceptional art style, a sombre tone, a TPS gameplay and fantastic CG-like visuals to boot !Seems like a perfect package to me. Its as if people are picking at straws trying to find a flaw because, well.....it just looks so great ! How can it be? It isn't ND or Kojima, something has to be wrong, right ?

If it was not for Japan's games knocking on my door, this would have been a day one buy for me.

 

[orangpelupa]

but there's always something wrong in video games. I think its fine as long as did not destroy the overall enjoyment.

 

[DrJay24]

Exclusives always bring out the worst in people. I'm only concerned about the length. I don't want to spend $60 on a six hour game, so I may wait until a price drop and work on my backlog.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

GTAV was frequently called out for its oddly constricted mission design actually.

To be clear, my comment about where I used GTA V as a reference, isn't about mission design - this is an engine issue. This is how the engine hands off gameplay to cutscenes (interactive or not) and back to gameplay, and the resulting lack of control of your avatar where you expect it because the game looks like like it's ready for you to play.

You can find this issue impacting lots of games, including well reviewed games like Tomb Raider and I'm fairly sure it happens occasionally in The Last of Us.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Exclusives always bring out the worst in people. I'm only concerned about the length. I don't want to spend $60 on a six hour game, so I may wait until a price drop and work on my backlog.

I could well buy this day one but I won't be buying it until I've read half a dozen reviews. Length is definitely an issue for me too though, if it's short with little replay value, then I'll also wait for a sale.

 

[L. Scofield]

In terms of criticism, I'd go for the lack of replayability argument. Seems too scripted and lacking in diversity in options in how to tackle encounters. Plus the human enemies don't seem particularly interesting and all we've seen from the monsters are scripted scenes.

 

[MrFox]

I don't understand. Is there any indication that the game is only 6 hours and lacks replayability?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

In terms of criticism, I'd go for the lack of replayability argument. Seems too scripted and lacking in diversity in options in how to tackle encounters.

It depends on the raw mechanics. The Uncharted games are all heavily scripted but the combat is pure pleasure - for me at least. I couldn't estimate the number of times I've replaced Uncharted 2 in particular. Or Gears or War (the original).

I don't understand. Is there any indication that the game is only 6 hours and lacks replayability?

Nothing I've read. I'm expecting a 12hour game, or 15 because I'll be creeping around cowering from werewolves. Uh I mean.. proceeding cautiously and tactically Considering the game is out in just over two weeks, we know so little about it and knowing so little is sometimes a sign of bad things. On the flip side, the review embargo date is 18th February which is 2 days before release so I'll have time to read the reviews and decide whether to buy and even chose disc or digital.

 

[MrFox]

Ah okay, I got worried there for a moment. 12 hours would be great.

I'm a trophy whore so I'd be fine with a short game, but 6 hours would be crazy short. The quickest platinum I got was R&C Nexus, it took three evenings for three play through. GT6 plat took me a year because I suck at driving.

 

[tuna]

I think the criticism regarding the un-adaptive animations indicate a focus on a beautiful game that becomes ugly when you actually play it. Like the great looking chairs in RE6 that you couldn't actually interact with. These things take you out of the world and reminds you of all other limitations within the game.

Some people aren't really bothered by this (just as I do not really care about aliasing), but for some it really matters.

 

[L. Scofield]

I don't understand. Is there any indication that the game is only 6 hours and lacks replayability?

I don't know about the length but so far gameplay footage doesn't show much in terms of tactical variety. Since Prophecy2k opened the door for comparisons, I haven't seen any area in The Order like the village in RE4. I imported the Famitsu demo and had a lot of fun replaying that section over and over again:

(2:15 onwards and sorry for the awful quality)

(1:06 to 1:31)

Enemy reactions are varied, they put pressure on the player, body damage matters, there are many options to move through the environment, there are some destructible obstacles such as doors and windows, you can shoot projectiles out of the air, etc...

That's just the beginning of the game and I'm not even counting the pure-gameplay mode of Mercenaries, the most addictive part of RE4, RE5 and RE6.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I think the criticism regarding the un-adaptive animations indicate a focus on a beautiful game that becomes ugly when you actually play it.

You should learn to shoot and duck better, that way you won't have to pick things up as often.

 

[MrFox]

What I learned so far from journalists is that the game is not like Resident Evil, and it's not like Gears of War.

It is, and it isn't, and it should be. Something like that.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Well, as far as I am concerned, I don't see any problem with the game. Has an enigmatic story and setting, great characterisations, exceptional art style, a sombre tone, a TPS gameplay and fantastic CG-like visuals to boot

What exactly do we know about characterisations? I've tried to watch at least all the material linked in this thread but everything was way too short to learn about the characters and their relationships. Well maybe that they're not big ugly space marines

 

[MrFox]

Well, it's an interesting year to use for alternate history... chances are it's going to be more nuanced than "me see bad guys. me kill with big gun."

Many interesting discoveries happened in 1886, I hope anthropology geeks are having fun watching the trailer and understanding the references.