The Order: 1886

[L. Scofield]

Outch, come on! hahaha.
Basic in the sense of amount of texels in its textures and polys in ther geo, yeah, maybe. But that ignores that they were based of photometric and laser-scanned data, finely calibrated to their physically based brdfs and their lighting model,wich handles a bunch of lights with fresneld speculars, indirect lighting, AO, reflections and a bunch of other extra flair.

Sure, that's why I mentioned PBR in the formula I posted.

Put those assets on source engine or ue3 and see if they look as good. Some people say it all came down to a bunch of post effects, because they actually didn't notice a lot of the naturalness they percieved actually came from the improved lighting . CA or DOF were just minor parts of it. Its easy to dissect polygon edges and texture resolution, but acuracy of lighting is a bit more subtle, and often is mistaken for some funky color grading or whatever by the non professional eye.

In terms of lighting, IES profiles + inverse square falloff help a lot. The lack of both in CE3 are very annoying when you try to create realistic lighting.

A great HDR implementation is a must but both this and the inverse square falloff are part of PBR so that's why I didn't mention them separately.

Now, CA and DOF are indeed small parts but are absolutely instrumental in fooling the eyes. Don't dismiss them because they're not some super advanced rendering technique.

 

[Billy Idol]

Out of curiosity I just did a test with my GF and showed her all the prominent candidates and their recent GC videos...out of nearly all of them, she chose The Order as best looking game in a heartbeat (before showing her The Order, it was Quantum Break until then, AC Unity also got her attention, not so much P.T. and others I hold up high, like e.g. fable).

 

[milk]

Now, CA and DOF are indeed small parts but are absolutely instrumental in fooling the eyes. Don't dismiss them because they're not some super advanced rendering technique.

I see, I think I missunderstood your point because of the way you made your formula.
You merged a bunch of pretty complex effects, in both real time rendering cost, programing time to implement them, an on requiring adaptation of the whole art pipeline, into the coin word 'PBR', yet the each individual post process effect was discriminated, which are comparatively more trivial (MB being the trickiest - if object based - followed by DOF i believe) but you know all that. I just felt like you were underapreciating it all, but now I see that was not the case.

 

[TEEDA]

I wonder where the soft body physic talk they did went. And if it s still there.
can't wait to see more of the game.

 

[Billy Idol]

Yeah...what about destruction?!

 

[L. Scofield]

Did they ever actually talk about advanced physics themselves or were those only the ramblings of a journalist?

 

[DieH@rd]

Only journalist mentioned it when he saw some early tech demos.

 

[Billy Idol]

Wasn't their a dev diary, where a dev (can't remember his name, but it was a hulk type guy) told how they make use of soft body physics and how the action results into maximum chaos with real impact of the weapons?

 

[betternatethanlever]

Outch, come on! hahaha.
Basic in the sense of amount of texels in its textures and polys in ther geo, yeah, maybe. But that ignores that they were based of photometric and laser-scanned data, finely calibrated to their physically based brdfs and their lighting model,wich handles a bunch of lights with fresneld speculars, indirect lighting, AO, reflections and a bunch of other extra flair.
Put those assets on source engine or ue3 and see if they look as good. Some people say it all came down to a bunch of post effects, because they actually didn't notice a lot of the naturalness they percieved actually came from the improved lighting . CA or DOF were just minor parts of it. Its easy to dissect polygon edges and texture resolution, but acuracy of lighting is a bit more subtle, and often is mistaken for some funky color grading or whatever by the non professional eye.

I don't think either of the two games being discussed have indirect lighting. That leads me to my own question, is indirect lighting really necessary provided that a physically-based lighting model already looks closer to CG?

 

[L. Scofield]

I don't think either of the two games being discussed have indirect lighting. That leads me to my own question, is indirect lighting really necessary provided that a physically-based lighting model already looks closer to CG?

The Order 1886 features indirect lighting but all of it is baked.

P.T. doesn't seem to feature indirect lighting, but all the lighting is calculated in realtime.

Indirect lighting doesn't shine much in these types of games were all the environments are dark and moody. In daylight it's essential to create a realistic looking scene.

 

[betternatethanlever]

The Order 1886 features indirect lighting but all of it is baked.

P.T. doesn't seem to feature indirect lighting, but all the lighting is calculated in realtime.

Indirect lighting doesn't shine much in these types of games were all the environments are dark and moody. In daylight it's essential to create a realistic looking scene.

A small clarification on my part, I meant real-time indirect lighting.

P.T. looks phenomenal. My two cents would be that indirect lighting would add much more to the IQ in games where using the flashlight is a requirement (at least for the player), and in games with corridors. Kojima said something about a downgrade, I'm usually pessimistic about these things but I hope the final version has something big for us.

 

[milk]

Almost all games have some sort of indirect lighitng (doom 3 is a rare exeption) with varying degrees of correctness and interactivity. I didn't say anything about real time, or fully dynamic. If P.T.'s rendering is like MGS5's in that regard, then it has baked env. maps on various artist chosen points around the scene, which are blended and normalized deferredly. That's what kojima's dev talked about on the tech presentation about fox engine.

 

[L. Scofield]

Almost all games have some sort of indirect lighitng (doom 3 is a rare exeption) with varying degrees of correctness and interactivity. I didn't say anything about real time, or fully dynamic. If P.T.'s rendering is like MGS5's in that regard, then it has baked env. maps on various artist chosen points around the scene, which are blended and normalized deferredly. That's what kojima's dev talked about on the tech presentation about fox engine.

Yes that's true I forgot about that. It's a semi-realtime solution since it doesn't take into account changes in the environment or dynamic light sources.

 

[Nesh]

I thought the Fox Engine actually did take them into account

 

[L. Scofield]

I thought the Fox Engine actually did take them into account

Not for GI.

 

[ultragpu]

New screeny, lighting looks so damn beautiful.

 

[DieH@rd]

That exact scene was shown in Gamescom trailer. Judging buy the heavy ammount of artifacts, this is maybe screencap from HQ version of that trailer.

 

[Shortbread]

Damn it! I want this game now...

 

[Arwin]

Maybe watch A Penny Dreadful to get you in the mood? Lol.

 

[ultragpu]

Aww man The Order is officially looking like the pre rendered CG of those AAA titles, that lighting is ridiculously mint!

Can't wait for more gameplay demo tomorrow.