The Order: 1886

[London Geezer]

I'm very happy you have a 'big' one but I think everyone else is talking about TVs...



I'm not overly fond of black bars either but if the game isn't immersive enough to make you forget about them whilst you are playing then it'll be a bust anyway.

I might love it and forget about the black bars after all, but that doesn't stop me... Oh god i'm whinging, ain't I...

 

[AlNom]

Wonder if they could support something akin to that MSAA trick on RSX where they could write out the samples as pixels. Would be a cute alternative at offering full frame 1080p while still only rendering 1920x800 4xMSAA. It would require an adjustment in vertical FOV, of course.

Or just claim "4K" support (3840x1600 samples as pixels *cough*). The edges might look really garbled though.

 

[nightshade]

Wonder if they could support something akin to that MSAA trick on RSX where they could write out the samples as pixels. Would be a cute alternative at offering full frame 1080p while still only rendering 1920x800 4xMSAA. It would require an adjustment in vertical FOV, of course.

Or just claim "4K" support (3840x1600 samples as pixels *cough*). The edges might look really garbled though.

What are the advantages of that technique? And will it cause blurring like it does if the game's upscaling?

 

[Gitaroo]

yupe, anything involve "scaling" is always garbage, best to view everything at the native res.

 

[AlNom]

What are the advantages of that technique? And will it cause blurring like it does if the game's upscaling?

IIRC, it was just taking advantage of the ROPs being able to spit out multisamples per clock and then reconstructing a larger frame from it, but a few games would get funny artefacts (like a crenellation) on edges as a result or a blur, can't remember (might have depended on how they went about reconstructing).

Otherwise, it was to perform per sample shading/lighting so the AA was correct for the original frame (alias to 2560x720, do the shading, go back down to 1280x720).

Just a silly thought probably.

edit:

Ah right... Good ol' Quaz
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1088796&postcount=673

Looks a lot worse than I remember. :s

But he did seem to imply that 4xMSAA wouldn't have that sort of problem:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1098917&postcount=850

I suppose it'd end up being blurred anyhow. :|

---

Anyways, I suppose it'd have to be compared between a direct upscale by the HW instead of mucking about via SW (to get 4K or mashing about with non-integer buffer scaling). Was just a passing thought experiment... thing... idea... onions. Not like 4K support is meaningful yet.

 

[Globalisateur]

I suppose it'd end up being blurred anyhow. :|

I do think so; with their new gaussian blur specular AA technique (shown in a course) + strong Depth of field + inevitable motion blurs (30fps induced and software induced) I think a sharp 4xMSAA will be more than needed.

They couldn't realistically add a fourth layer of vaseline in top of the previous ones.

The washed out impression I mainly got from the screenshots (even the 1080p ones) is probably due to this new gaussian blur.

I couldn't run the .exe demo about this new blur algorithm on my computer. Feel free to run the directx demo. Maybe it's great stuff and better than what the words "gaussian blur" let me imagine.

I do like contrasts in games. I mean there are lots of "specular" high contrasts in real life, aren't there?

 

[MJP]

I do think so; with their new gaussian blur specular AA technique (shown in a course) + strong Depth of field + inevitable motion blurs (30fps induced and software induced) I think a sharp 4xMSAA will be more than needed.

They couldn't realistically add a fourth layer of vaseline in top of the previous ones.

The washed out impression I mainly got from the screenshots (even the 1080p ones) is probably due to this new gaussian blur.

I couldn't run the .exe demo about this new blur algorithm on my computer. Feel free to run the directx demo. Maybe it's great stuff and better than what the words "gaussian blur" let me imagine.

I do like contrasts in games. I mean there are lots of "specular" high contrasts in real life, aren't there?

It's not a "Gaussian blur", it's basically an adjustment of the specular reflections in order to better account for the "roughness" in normal maps as those normal maps because small on the screen. Doing this means that surfaces look more consistent regardless of whether they're close to the camera or further from it, and it also helps prevent "shimmering specular" problems that result from shader aliasing. So there's no screen-space blur or anything like that.

 

[Rangers]

Cant wait for this reveal, perhaps it can show us the "true next gen".

 

[nightshade]

Letterboxing

 

[jlippo]

It's not a "Gaussian blur", it's basically an adjustment of the specular reflections in order to better account for the "roughness" in normal maps as those normal maps because small on the screen. Doing this means that surfaces look more consistent regardless of whether they're close to the camera or further from it, and it also helps prevent "shimmering specular" problems that result from shader aliasing. So there's no screen-space blur or anything like that.

Indeed.
This is the way surface aliasing should be addressed, not by throwing ssaa with huge amounts of samples.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I do think so; with their new gaussian blur specular AA technique

As MJP says. Gaussian is a function. It can be applied in many ways. It's used here to simulate specular falloff with roughness over distance. That is, a rough surface with lots of highly specular reflections (wet gravel path reflecting sun, say) should look like lots of individual reflections up close but one less intense, broader light-patch at distance as an average of all the tiny reflections.

Complex functions in shaders that eliminate aliasing from raw texture lookups without needing multiple shader samples are The Future.

 

[Nesh]

Is it today that the embargo is lifted up?

 

[DieH@rd]

Sadly no. Tomorrow @ 15:00 CET.

 

[jlippo]

IIRC, it was just taking advantage of the ROPs being able to spit out multisamples per clock and then reconstructing a larger frame from it, but a few games would get funny artefacts (like a crenellation) on edges as a result or a blur, can't remember (might have depended on how they went about reconstructing).

Otherwise, it was to perform per sample shading/lighting so the AA was correct for the original frame (alias to 2560x720, do the shading, go back down to 1280x720).

Just a silly thought probably.

edit:

Ah right... Good ol' Quaz
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1088796&postcount=673

Looks a lot worse than I remember. :s

But he did seem to imply that 4xMSAA wouldn't have that sort of problem:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1098917&postcount=850

I suppose it'd end up being blurred anyhow. :|

---

Anyways, I suppose it'd have to be compared between a direct upscale by the HW instead of mucking about via SW (to get 4K or mashing about with non-integer buffer scaling). Was just a passing thought experiment... thing... idea... onions. Not like 4K support is meaningful yet.

This trick would actually be quite interesting if used with edge detection methods like MLAA/SMAA or FXAA 4.
Basically you would find edges in sub-sample resolution and use the edge information while resolve to image to anti-aliased final resolution. (720p, 1080p, 4k. etc.)

 

[loekf]

Sadly no. Tomorrow @ 15:00 CET.

 

[chris1515]

I have read a leak of a french preview in a french paper magazine. They said it same effect than the first E3 demo of Uncharted 2 and no difference between games cinematic and gameplay...

 

[chris1515]

The meele system reminds them a bit Last of Us more than Uncharted... But they add their own idea.

 

[loekf]

The meele system reminds them a bit Last of Us more than Uncharted... But they add their own idea.

Where did you get this info ? So I can also crush, slash and hit opponents with spiky baseball bats ? Or is there a steampunk touch ?

 

[chris1515]

Where did you get this info ? So I can also crush, slash and hit opponents with spiky baseball bats ? Or is there a steampunk touch ?

French paper magazine but I think it is more brutal than Uncharted and they play with camera during the meele. But it is not exactly the same thing... Many cinematic touch. And in the beginning of the demo view of London from rooftop...

 

[GuestLV]

Mod: Copyrighted materials and link to them removed.

The game seems so much ambitious !!! The preview confirms cinematic = gameplay !

-Cinematics are interactive( the first screenshot you see, the player can control the binocular to find the objective),

-the shoot sequences are very dynamic and immersive , reproducing movies effects like DOF and camera over the shoulder, and the atmosphere is also very immersive and they loved it. ( sometimes, the game atmosphere will be worthy of the bests survival horror. )

- No health regeneration