The next Evolution of Gaming Controllers [2020] *spawn*

[cheapchips]

If dualsense has as much impact in games that aren't specifically made for it*, can't help but wonder did we'll see the Xbox extra rumbly edition controller down the line.


* I officially name this the The Nintendo Problem.

 

[BRiT]

If dualsense has as much impact in games

I doubt it will, considering both new features can be entirely turned off.

 

[cheapchips]

I doubt it will, considering both new features can be entirely turned off.

I'm sceptical it'll make that big a difference in generally gaming. If PS5 titles continually rate as the best due to better haptics, I could see MS responding.

 

[mpg1]

If dualsense has as much impact in games that aren't specifically made for it*, can't help but wonder did we'll see the Xbox extra rumbly edition controller down the line.


* I officially name this the The Nintendo Problem.

If it catches on, yes. The impressions of DualSense seem pretty great. I just wonder if some 3rd party developers will fully implement it/continue to implement it. Also adaptive triggers would probably have to implemented differently for single player experience vs competitive multiplayer experience where immersion in the form of trigger resistance would become a negative if it means a few hundred extra milliseconds before a shot gets off.... otherwise you'd probably want to disable it in that scenario.

I'm still hoping for gyro aiming adoption as well.

 

[Jay]

I'm sceptical it'll make that big a difference in generally gaming. If PS5 titles continually rate as the best due to better haptics, I could see MS responding.

By the time confident that it's getting good long term support, R&D, probably after mid gen earliest

They had paddles on elites, chat pad, both of which could be mapped to a share button. Yet after many controller revisions the didn't add one until next gen.
Not like it wasn't an easy and obvious addition.

 

[cheapchips]

By the time confident that it's getting good long term support, R&D, probably after mid gen earliest

They had paddles on elites, chat pad, both of which could be mapped to a share button. Yet after many controller revisions the didn't add one until next gen.
Not like it wasn't an easy and obvious addition.

Very few people would consider those features as essential. They're not worth the extra cents to BoM to the baseline controller.

 

[Jay]

Very few people would consider those features as essential. They're not worth the extra cents to BoM to the baseline controller.

Sorry, didn't express myself very well.

My point was that a share button was a known lacking feature that was much wanted.
They gave options by remapping to do it so they knew it was highly wanted and the OS support was there, hardware also (protocols etc) .
They've added it this time, when it could've been done before.

They've had multiple refreshes that they could have easily added it to.

I very much doubt they'll invest in the R&D to get it out before next gen even if it's heavily used. As it won't stop the games from being accessible on xbox.

 

[arhra]

I very much doubt they'll invest in the R&D to get it out before next gen even if it's heavily used.

They seem to have already invested a fair bit into research for something that seems functionally-equivalent to the DS adaptive triggers (and searching for patents by the same inventors reveals a lot more related patents, covering everything from different gearing schemes, to tiny electromagnetic clutches).

Why they chose not to bring that to market is hard to say, but if they felt they needed to resurrect it, it seems like it would be eminently possible. And the haptics would just be integrating existing off-the-shelf tech, so relatively trivial by comparison.

 

[dobwal]

Sorry, didn't express myself very well.

My point was that a share button was a known lacking feature that was much wanted.
They gave options by remapping to do it so they knew it was highly wanted and the OS support was there, hardware also (protocols etc) .
They've added it this time, when it could've been done before.

They've had multiple refreshes that they could have easily added it to.

I very much doubt they'll invest in the R&D to get it out before next gen even if it's heavily used. As it won't stop the games from being accessible on xbox.

Not wanting to add a share button to a controller is not the same as adding actuators. The Xbox didn't lack a sharing feature just no desire to add a button to support it. There is already precedent for adding such functionality in the middle of a gen. Sony replaced the sixaxis with the dualshock 3 in the middle of the generation of the PS3. MS replaced the OG Xbox controller with a total redesign in 2002. The xbox one controller was redesigned to include new shoulder buttons, a 3.5 mm jack and bluetooth.

 

[BRiT]

The shoulder buttons weren't new addition, they were just slightly redesigned. They existed since X360 days.

 

[Jay]

They seem to have already invested a fair bit into research for something that seems functionally-equivalent to the DS adaptive triggers (and searching for patents by the same inventors reveals a lot more related patents, covering everything from different gearing schemes, to tiny electromagnetic clutches).

Why they chose not to bring that to market is hard to say, but if they felt they needed to resurrect it, it seems like it would be eminently possible. And the haptics would just be integrating existing off-the-shelf tech, so relatively trivial by comparison.

You would be surprised how much work went into the changes that was made into the next gen XS controllers and that's for what is considered minor changes.

Adding all that stuff would change weight, ballance, size, possibly shape. It would be a lot more work than to add a share button which people kept pointing out was a big miss, that they had to rework the system implementation a few times to work around.

Put it this way, i wouldn't hold my breath for such a huge revision anytime soon. As in before a mid gen at the earliest.

 

[cheapchips]

The shoulder buttons weren't new addition, they were just slightly redesigned. They existed since X360 days.

Really you could argue that they are the OG Xbox's black and white buttons migrated to a sensible place.

 

[AlNom]

Really you could argue that they are the OG Xbox's black and white buttons migrated to a sensible place.

Yeah, that's how BC on 360 operated.

It's too bad they didn't keep them as additional buttons though as it would have been better for RPGs and fighting games (XYZ, ABC) in particular.

 

[thicc_gaf]

They seem to have already invested a fair bit into research for something that seems functionally-equivalent to the DS adaptive triggers (and searching for patents by the same inventors reveals a lot more related patents, covering everything from different gearing schemes, to tiny electromagnetic clutches).

Why they chose not to bring that to market is hard to say, but if they felt they needed to resurrect it, it seems like it would be eminently possible. And the haptics would just be integrating existing off-the-shelf tech, so relatively trivial by comparison.

One area Sony would have an advantage here is the fact that devs could count on every PS5 having a Dualsense with those features present. So in a way, that standardizes the features of the controller and lowers the risk for devs to program with them in mind. I don't know exactly what's in the Series controllers though in terms of the hardware components utilized for rumble, haptics etc.; it's always possible there's more packed in versus what's being leveraged currently and could be updated through firmware, but certain things that would be a crapshoot to assume if they're even present.

That said like a few folks were saying above, the end-user can still disable all of those controller features for PS5 through the OS, so that adds a variable for devs to consider; is it worth it for them to program for those controller features when there's a chance a large portion of the audience aren't even using them in the first place? Maybe in that context it'd of been better for Sony to let the developers provide the option to disable those extra features in their game on a game-by-game case. I know of plenty of old PS1 games even where you could disable vibration mode through the game menu; maybe to encourage wide adaptation of these new controller innovations Sony could just let the games themselves determine whether the features are on or off, and just leave "lower end" controller features like vibration in the hands of the end-user through some OS settings.

Otherwise, I'm with others thinking that it could still lead to some diminished push from 3P devs to program for the Dualsense's unique options more universally; that's even aside the fact other controllers on MS, Nintendo and PC platforms wouldn't have those features standard either (so there could be the chance majority of 3P titles still don't really leverage Dualsense too much anyway outside of timed exclusives and the like).

From MS in particular I'd like to see them do a new controller implementing some of the design aspects from the controller they made for physically impaired gamers, but in a standard controller design. I think some of those concepts could be repurposed successfully for new input methods for use on standard game pads, outside of the realm of aiding physically impaired gamers.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

One area Sony would have an advantage here is the fact that devs could count on every PS5 having a Dualsense with those features present. So in a way, that standardizes the features of the controller and lowers the risk for devs to program with them in mind.

The same was true with gyro controls in SixAxis (then DualShock 3) and the touchpad in DualShock 4 but support was still spotty. I hope DualSense gets better support from third parties. If it's half as good as those raving about it make out, it should attract support with little effort but time will tell.

 

[thicc_gaf]

The same was true with gyro controls in SixAxis (then DualShock 3) and the touchpad in DualShock 4 but support was still spotty. I hope DualSense gets better support from third parties. If it's half as good as those raving about it make out, it should attract support with little effort but time will tell.

Oh man, talk about drudging up bad memories xD. SixAxis was...something else. Still can't get over the shape of that one. I figure ease of devs programming to the controller features will depend on how easy Sony makes it for them on the API front. One thing that seems to get repeated is how easy dev on PS5 is because the SDK is basically a souped-up PS4 SDK.

The question is, like you're implying, if that stuff will be leveraged and there's examples of similar innovations on older Sony controllers that never really got much use. I'm highly skeptical myself; even if it does, the question then becomes does it lead to game design that can't be served with other control types. Highly doubt such would ever happen; even the Wii, which was entirely built around its unique controller, even the best games on that system can by and large completely ignore the motion controls and play perfectly fine (in some cases even better).

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The question is, like you're implying, if that stuff will be leveraged and there's examples of similar innovations on older Sony controllers that never really got much use. I'm highly skeptical myself; even if it does, the question then becomes does it lead to game design that can't be served with other control types.

I think this is the biggest barrier. Effort spent on controls for just one system even if that one system often sells the most copies. I really hope devs embrace DualSense features and that Microsoft get a new controller out with these features that will be easy to support with retrospective patches.

 

[see colon]

even the Wii, which was entirely built around its unique controller, even the best games on that system can by and large completely ignore the motion controls and play perfectly fine (in some cases even better).

Not true. the best games on Wii are Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, and Wii Play Motion. None of them would play better without motion controls. Skipping rocks by pressing a button? Nah....

 

[AlphaWolf]

Not true. the best games on Wii are Wii Sports, Wii Sports Resort, and Wii Play Motion. None of them would play better without motion controls. Skipping rocks by pressing a button? Nah....

I'm not sure the world agrees with your assessment of the best games on that platform. Or rather I'm certain that it does not. I know some believe Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Brothers, Zelda, and Metroid were more highly regarded.

 

[Arwin]

I hope the world is more ready for motion controls but if Microsoft had supported them then they would have been standard in shooters by now.

I love racing games that support them though, it really helps and also makes them more accessible to non gamers.