The future of stereoscopic gaming

[Zaphod]

Am I the only one who is highly skeptical that the "future of stereoscopic gaming" is any at all? I just can't phantom consumers embracing stuff that has all these logistical requirements (glasses need power, how many for a family, use needs planning) in addition to the need for a new TV not to mention the extra hardware itself. Sure, it'll have certain WOW-factor, but expanding beyond a niche of geeks and enthusiasts? I just don't see it. Yet.

 

[patsu]

I think it's a difficult sell to the mass. Doesn't mean the vendors won't try though.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/35654/Sony-3D-TV-in-every-home-next-year

Industry insiders have told MCV that Sony has already overseen the internal development of 3D games – but are holding off from announcing them until an industry 3D standard has become apparent.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think it's a difficult sell to the mass. Doesn't mean the vendors won't try though.

Seriously hard sell though. You can't show 3D without pundits stopping to put on specs. Shimmering 3D will be headache inducing for any store workers too! Sony Style Stores will need a wide bearth.

 

[patsu]

Sweetspot is the rich people first... provided 3D content is there and it has noticeable benefits.

It's the other way - shutter glasses flicker and it's a lot more unpleasant for the eyes. They also require batteries and are heavier because of this. But yes they are cheaper and it's easier to extend existing tech to support them.

On the other hand polarized tech would require far more complex displays, and would certainly work a lot better with projectors and expensive 'silver' screens compared to televisions. But they would offer better quality too.

If they have the technologies to overcome some of the shutter glass limitations while keep it economical, it will be a big win; like LCD vs Plasma.


EDIT: After some quick google on IFA, I realized what's behind the 3D TV announcement. It's one of the products announced under Sony group's "umbrella" brand message: make.believe
http://www.gamersdigest.net/3388/sony-brings-3d-home-in-2010/

In addition to 3D compatible BRAVIA LCD TVs, Sony will also develop 3D compatibility into many more of its devices, such as Blu-ray Disc products, VAIO and PlayStation 3, to provide a multitude of ways in which 3D content – from 3D movies to stereoscopic 3D games – can be enjoyed in the home.

In the growing industry of 3D cinema, Sony has supported and driven the expansion of 3D by providing a wide variety of professional equipment for the shooting, production and screening of movies in 3D. The number of digital 3D screens is increasing rapidly, and is expected to reach 7,000 by the end of 2009(3). In addition to 3D movies, Sony’s range of professional 3D products is also driving the growth of 3D production and distribution across a range of entertainment industries, from theatre and music performances to sport and beyond.

Embracing the ‘make.believe’ philosophy, which signifies the company’s ability to “turn ideas into reality”, Sony will strive to further enhance synergies across its group companies. Sony will leverage its wealth of technology and engineering resources spanning both professional and consumer markets to bring the optimum 3D viewing experience to the home, from 2010 and beyond.

So yeah, they will look into 3D Blu-ray also. The PSMC augmented reality titles probably fall under it too.

Press Release:
http://www.photoxels.com/pr-sony-make-dot-believe/

 

[ShadowRunner]

A lot of people will be warming to the idea from watching 3d in cinemas, many will decide to buy a 3d tv on the back of that experience and then go in for a demo.

 

[Crossbar]

Here we go

Spoiler

to the temple of consumption, get your gears and start to spend

.

Speaking at the IFA technology trade show in Berlin, Sir Howard Stringer , Sony chief executive, will announce plans not only to sell 3D Bravia television sets, but to make Sony's Vaio laptop computers, PlayStation3 games consoles and Blu-ray disc players compatible with the technology.

Mr Stringer is expected to tell the audience: "Today, 3D is clearly on its way to the mass market through technology, distribution and content.

"As with high definition a few years back, there are a variety of issues yet to be addressed. But the 3D train is on the track, and we at Sony are ready to drive it home."

 

[manux]

Panasonic is also releasing new info about their 3d solutions. This is not very unexpected as the rumours for last year or year and half have put 3d blu-ray to end of 2010. Seems that all that was predicted quite a long time ago is now becoming reality

Panasonic’s 3D system uses frame sequential technology to create two separate video channels, one for each eye, scanned at double the normal frame rate. The 1080p picture is processed using the company’s UniPhier engine.

Once again, Panasonic confirmed it will launch 3D TVs and Blu-ray players in 2010, but specific details of models and launch dates are thin on the ground here at IFA.

http://whathifi.com/News/IFA-NEWS-P...-Blu-ray-for-2010-but-details-remain-sketchy/

The Blu-ray Disc Association is making progress in approving universal specifications for creating stereoscopic 3D high-definition discs.

It’s expected that the BDA will complete these specs by the end of this year, with studios launching their first such 3D discs—matching the high-quality 3D technology shown in theaters—in 2010.

The BDA hasn’t yet formally commented about a completion timeline. However, BDA members made some decisions this week, notably regarding backward-compatibility requirements. Any produced 3D discs also will include a 2D version of the film that can be viewed with existing Blu-ray Disc players. Additionally, 3D-capable Blu-ray players must be able to run existing 2D titles.

http://www.dvdplaza.fi/forums/showpost.php?p=1249097&postcount=155

edit. Hands on experience with panasonic 3d displays(and there are glasses too) http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/03/eyes-on-panasonics-full-hd-3d-plasma-and-blu-ray-combo/

 

[patsu]

Some speculations on 3D Blu-ray:
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3357

Unlike the passive solutions described above, active shutter glasses literally block and unblock your view utilizing remotely activated LCD screens in the lenses. Here's how it works: Your HDTV sends a signal (via IR, Bluetooth, or other radio transmitters) to the glasses to sync them to the correct frame rate. The glasses - which are powered by rechargeable batteries - will send alternating electrical signals to each lens which activates an LCD screen in the lens, effectively blocking that eye's view of the screen.

The glasses run about $100 a piece, which should reduce as consumer interest rises.

Panasonic has been parading their 3-D Blu-ray solution around the world since it was first revealed at CEATEC 2008, which features a 3-D plasma HDTV, a 3-D Blu-ray Disc player, and active shutter 3-D glasses. Likewise, Sony has recently announced their intention to integrate 3-D across their entire home entertainment line using active shutter technology.

Officially, the BDA has yet to bless active shutter 3-D technology as the delivery mechanism for 3-D Blu-ray, but with two top Blu-ray companies no on board, there can be no doubt that when a decision is eventually made, it will be in favor of active shutter 3-D.

EDIT:
Philip's 3D position @ IFA:

Philips also demonstrated a 3-D prototype version of its Cinema 21:9 television, and said it is working on three methods: active glasses, passive glasses, and no glasses.

The company proclaimed that 3-D TV is "the ultimate dream for consumers." However, Philips is waiting for "consumer demand" and is refraining from any grand announcements for now. It promises 3-D Blu-ray players and TVs when people and content are ready. "It is not clear yet whether consumers are ready to watch TV with glasses," they concluded.

...and off-topic, Toshiba finally announced their Blu-ray player. 3D plan not revealed yet.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3365

Toshiba America Consumer Products announced today its first Blu-ray player, model BDX2000. It supports BD-Live (Profile 2.0), 1080p video and DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD. It also features Regza-Link function, an SD card slot, and AVCHD playback (but no streaming video of any kind is mentioned). It will be available in November, with an MSRP of $249.99.

EDIT 2:
Apparently Sony showed GT5 and MotorStorm: Pacific Rift in 3D @ IFA:
http://translate.google.de/translat...er-IFA-in-3D/News/&sl=de&tl=en&hl=de&ie=UTF-8

At its IFA press conference, the Japanese manufacturer also demonstrated impressive 3D versions of Gran Turismo 5 and MotorStorm: Pacific Rift. These have been shown, however, on any of the new Bravia TVs, instead, with a special digital-cinema and RealID polarization technique. During the IFA that visitors can try out the "new gaming experience" itself. At the booth of Sony and using a shutter glasses.

 

[Danalys]

This is that 4D 120Hz stuff Ken Katuragi was on about, back when we had no idea what he was talking about.

Just thinking i'd love it if you could buy another PS3 when it's cheaper hook them up by ethernet and get games at the same quality but in 3D, and i figure people selling PS3s would like it aswell.

 

[corduroygt]

I believe anything that uses shutter glasses and thus causes eye strain is doomed to the fate of Virtual Boy. I am skeptical of 3D displays that you have to wear glasses for. I don't think they'll be mainstream until displays that show 3d without glasses are invented.

 

[Danalys]

You can do stuff like show one frame at all even degrees and the other at all odd degrees, but then that restricts people to certain distances, where the difference between one degree is enough to show one pic to one eye and one to another.

Other than that there could be eye tracking projectors that beam right into your eyes, which is pretty tricky.

Else you're getting into holography for glassesless 3D.

 

[Crossbar]

I am trying to grasp how the 3D perspective can be maintained correctly and I am coming to the conclusion that the viewing distance ( screen <-> sofa ) must be pretty important for the alternating frames technique. I wonder if 3D TV screens will offer some setting parameter where you set the distance and the TV will slightly skew the images sideways to maintain the best perspective. If that is the case it would obviously be an advantage if the 3D recordings contained some redundant pixels i.e. wider images.

Am I off?

 

[patsu]

Someone above mentioned that game developers can calibrate the 3D setup to minimize fatique. It sounds like it'd be impossible to do so for 3D movies.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I am trying to grasp how the 3D perspective can be maintained correctly and I am coming to the conclusion that the viewing distance ( screen <-> sofa ) must be pretty important for the alternating frames technique.

I think they just don't care about that. It's an illusion anyway... sitting roughly in front of the TV and at least as far as THX specifies should be good enough.

 

[ShadowRunner]

I am trying to grasp how the 3D perspective can be maintained correctly and I am coming to the conclusion that the viewing distance ( screen <-> sofa ) must be pretty important for the alternating frames technique. I wonder if 3D TV screens will offer some setting parameter where you set the distance and the TV will slightly skew the images sideways to maintain the best perspective. If that is the case it would obviously be an advantage if the 3D recordings contained some redundant pixels i.e. wider images.

Am I off?

Shouldnt be a problem. 3d movies in cinemas work fine even though the distance from the screen in front row is much less than it is in the back row.
Knowing the distance of the user from the screen could make for a better 3d effect in games though or just having the option to calibrate seperation yourself would do.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You can do stuff like show one frame at all even degrees and the other at all odd degrees...

Wouldn't that be optically wrong if the eye aren't aligned with the right position? Let's say the right-eye view is on the even degrees of angle. If the viewer shifts one degree either side, now their right eye would be seeing the left-eye view and vice versa. Depth would be completely inverted! You'd have to keep dead still, which would be worse than wearing any glasses! I think the only solution that doesn't require headwear is proper 3d image formation. That or direct eye-imaging (lasers etc.). There's no way two images can be mapped onto a single display and yet be cleanly separated spacially for two eyes without some mechanism.

 

[patsu]

Sony: No plan to launch 3-D support for all PS3 games

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/04/sony-no-plan-to-launch-3-d-support-for-all-ps3-games/

You may have seen the report on Engadget stating that, according to a Sony rep, all PS3 games will run in 3-D with a software update next year. We contacted Sony ourselves to learn more about what sounded like a major megaton to let slip at a trade show. Sony told us that the company is "conducting a technological investigation" of whether it's even possible to do that. As for specifics: "there is no plan for the market launch of this at this time."

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It wouldn't be possible without halving the framerate.

 

[patsu]

That means they will count on 3D Blu-ray to drive the 3D TVs.

 

[ShadowRunner]

It wouldn't be possible without halving the framerate.

Unless they release a premium SKU with uprated hardware designed to enable this feature.