The AMD Execution Thread [2007 - 2017]
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Considering the cock-sucking festival they still enjoy, that'll take some time. Being the underling has some inexorable draw for some(a lot of ppl), and makes forgiveness quite easy to receive. If they manage to release something that is at least near Intel, you'll see tons of posts of:AMD back in the game, rocking, Intel ownorred har har har!, even if they don't match Intel, they need to be within spitting distance(relatively) for their "small-guy" aura to work. Heck, it works even now, see the AMD apologists everywhere explaining that something that inherently sucks badly is actually great, and that being billions in debt and incapable of executing anywhere near wher you'd need to is nothing to worry about and so on.
If you're talking abou server-space and so on, then yes, they've probably screwed themselves in the one market where they could've actually made inroads even given K10s limitations, as the integrators and clients there aren't at all forgiving, nor are they prone to fanboyism.IIRC, AMD has just managed to gain enough trust in that space recently, and by the Barcelona fubar may have torpedoed that.We'll see.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
Legend
It's almost like the more stuff they take on (chipsets, GPU, etc) instead of being an opportunity to succeed, it's an opportunity for screwups. The last year has all been about AMD snatching defeat from the jaws of success. All their stuff looks great on the roadmaps, but if you can't get it out and working properly, it's no goddamn use to man nor beast.
It's so frustrating, because AMD has the potential to sell very good products. R670 should have been clocked higher, have better drivers, and not hamstrung in games by the lack of TMU power. RD790 looks good, but it needs the updated southbridge, more BIOS development, and a CPU that's worthy of it. Phenom needs to be clocked higher, and not bugged.
I really feel AMD just missed everything by a few inches, but the way it all adds up they might as well have missed by a mile. While none of their products is individually compelling at the top end, they should have come together in the "complete platform" concept and become more than the sum of their parts.
Spider as platform could have worked really, really well as a complete mainstream package, especially as there are some pluses (such as low power/noise/heat), but the poor execution of Phenom compromises everything else far too much for the mainstream/enthusiast who wants that "best-bang-for-the-buck" spot just below cutting edge.
I just can't understand how AMD can't know all this. Either they have idiots running the company, or they are simply incapable of doing the work required to make "also-ran" products into "compelling" products. It's always the last ten percent of effort that is the hardest, and makes the difference between "okay" and "great", and there hasn't been anything from AMD this last year or two that has shown that they are capable of reaching that last ten percent of effort .
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Indeed. I usually try to imagine that these are primarily people who are relatively new to the computing world and don't have much experience. As such, they are more likely to just attach to what's familiar to them. AMD is cheap and has been very popular with the home-brewed computer community so I have few doubts that a lot of people had AMD Athlon rigs as their first machine.
Of course, there are also plenty of feeble-minded "enthusiast" folk out there who happily and heartily poison the minds of those around them.
Fanboys don't tend to be very interested in actually reading/reasearching/understanding things.LMAO... Glory days? You must be kidding me heh heh (right?) AMD 5x86-133 was cheap but glorious? K5 glorious? Hell, K6 was arguably crap until K6-III, but the platform was still probably the worst in history and even then that CPU was really disappointing if you needed FPU speed.... Cheapness has incredible power with consumers though, especially when they haven't experienced the much faster, stabler but more expensive alternatives.
Indeed. I usually try to imagine that these are primarily people who are relatively new to the computing world and don't have much experience. As such, they are more likely to just attach to what's familiar to them. AMD is cheap and has been very popular with the home-brewed computer community so I have few doubts that a lot of people had AMD Athlon rigs as their first machine.
Of course, there are also plenty of feeble-minded "enthusiast" folk out there who happily and heartily poison the minds of those around them.
LMAO... Glory days? You must be kidding me heh heh (right?) AMD 5x86-133 was cheap but glorious? K5 glorious? Hell, K6 was arguably crap until K6-III, but the platform was still probably the worst in history and even then that CPU was really disappointing if you needed FPU speed.... Cheapness has incredible power with consumers though, especially when they haven't experienced the much faster, stabler but more expensive alternatives.
I think the inverted commas suggest he was kidding
. That being said, I don't think there's a spot for them to revert into, they're too "fat" now to afford going back into the niche they were at the time. And much too indebted...Their only chance is to be somewhere around Intel, not necessarily beating them(I stand by my point, without Intel themselves flopping badly, AMD has 0 chance of out-R&Ding or topping their execution, the size difference is just too great), but near enough to be the exotic alternative that makes you a Comandante Che Guevara in the battle against the evil corporations(I always wondered WTF is an economic entity that has an about 6 bln market cap, if not one of the aforementioned evil corporations
), not the exotic alternative that makes your friends laugh their arses off whilst your computer takes a few days to do a virus-scan or to complete the 3DMark CPU test. This is what AMD was before the one hit wonder that the K7 was. Arguably, the great issue with them was breaking the mold that brought them success in the first place...this is not about Ruiz the evil dude who did this and that, pinning the current state of things only on Ruiz is beyond silly. FWIW, I think he's an astute businessman instead of the noob forumites who can hardly balance their income with their expenses in order to get burgers
paint him as. The entire head team at AMD failed to adapt their silver bullet(newish tech, the overemphasis on true-quad core, IMC and so on) to a changing market, they tried to stick with what brought them unexpected success with the K7 and K8, whilst neglecting that Intel was pretty much out of it's evolutionary dead-end and was slowly awakening.
I just built my first Intel based system since waaayyyy back when I used a Celery 1.3T.
Doomed. Dooooooomed. Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-
I hope AMD can come up with something better-er sometime soon. These Intels overclock easy, but I absolutely hate not having some fat chipset to install big, modified and/or custom drivers for. That and the same day I built this system, both the Intel & Gigabyte websites were down / crawling at sub-dialup speeds... Bad omen anyone?
The idea of nothing but INF files for drivers is just wierd.
Doomed. Dooooooomed. Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-
I hope AMD can come up with something better-er sometime soon. These Intels overclock easy, but I absolutely hate not having some fat chipset to install big, modified and/or custom drivers for. That and the same day I built this system, both the Intel & Gigabyte websites were down / crawling at sub-dialup speeds... Bad omen anyone?
The idea of nothing but INF files for drivers is just wierd.
The weirder thing is you probably don't even need those INFs.
But yeah, Intel is killing AMD in the high and mid range in a way that it hasn't since the K6. On the plus side, Athlon X2s don't perform bad anyway, so if you wanna pick up a cpu + motherboard for a total of under $100, you can do it and still have a fairly up to date computer once overclocked.
DAAMIT, the Necromancer
AMD plans to keep "Brisbane" around, releases new chips based on it
Things at AMD may have gone from bad to worse with the lackluster Phenom launch in late November. Not only did Phenom fail to appeal to professional reviewers, but the company ended up removing one third of its CPU lineup just after the big day.
Last week AMD CEO Hector Ruiz vowed that the company would stop hemorrhaging cash and return to profitability soon. "That is our number one goal right now," Ruiz said in a conference in Bangalore.
Making a profit at AMD apparently means refocusing on its older K8 architecture. The company will introduce eleven 65nm K8 processors over the next two quarters. By comparison: AMD launched two quad-core K10 Phenom processors in November with three more scheduled over the next two quarters. Two tri-core Phenom processors will follow in March 2008.
Essentially, AMD will move any remaining Athlon 64 processors from the 90nm node to the 65nm node, with a few new frequency and TDP variations.
The AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ will be the first to jump on the new 65nm K8 bandwagon with a 65W TDP. The previous Windsor-based chip of the same featured an 89-Watt TDP. AMD will also add 100 MHz to the core frequency of the Athlon 64 X2 5600+, now rated at 2.9 GHz. Total L2 cache will be halved in the move to the Brisbane core, and the updated Athlon 64 X2 5600+ chips will feature only 1MB of L2 cache. Availability of these processors is scheduled for Q1 2008.
AMD's higher-end Athlon 64 X2 6400+ and Athlon 64 X2 6000+ will both be discontinued.
AMD will also update its "Energy Efficient" series and will release three new chips, the AMD Athlon 4850e, Athlon 4450e, and Athlon 4050e in Q2 2008. All of the new offerings will be based on AMD's Brisbane core and will feature a 45-Watt thermal envelope. AMD's current energy efficient "BE-2xxx" series will be phased out at that time. Respectively, the new chips will run at 2.5GHz, 2.3GHz and 2.1GHz.
All new Brisbane chips will be based on the Socket AM2 interface. These processors are compatible with AMD's AM2+ socket designated for Phenom processors
http://www.dailytech.com/AMD+Resurrects+K8+Architecture+for+2008+Roadmap/article9899.htm
EDIT.: ARS remembers a few things:
One other thing to keep in mind is that while Phenom's current problems undoubtedly have something to do with the firm's renewed interest in K8, a transition from 90nm to full 65nm production was virtually guaranteed at some point. Starting in the first quarter of 2008, AMD's Fab 30 will undergo a complete facility upgrade, including a shift to 300mm Savewafers and 45nm process technology. All of AMD's 90nm CPUs are currently produced in Fab 30, and although the facility will continue to produce processors while under construction, its 90nm production lines obviously aren't going to stay open forever.
It's in AMD's best interests to move production of the K8 series over to 65nm, regardless of Phenom's competitive status, but it's unfortunate that K10's current situation paints the act with an air of desperation. Ultimately, there's not much AMD can do to improve K8's performance vs. Conroe or Penryn—and focusing on power efficiency can only take the company so far.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/hardware.ars/2007/12/05/amds-k8-gets-a-new-lease-on-life
AMD plans to keep "Brisbane" around, releases new chips based on it
Things at AMD may have gone from bad to worse with the lackluster Phenom launch in late November. Not only did Phenom fail to appeal to professional reviewers, but the company ended up removing one third of its CPU lineup just after the big day.
Last week AMD CEO Hector Ruiz vowed that the company would stop hemorrhaging cash and return to profitability soon. "That is our number one goal right now," Ruiz said in a conference in Bangalore.
Making a profit at AMD apparently means refocusing on its older K8 architecture. The company will introduce eleven 65nm K8 processors over the next two quarters. By comparison: AMD launched two quad-core K10 Phenom processors in November with three more scheduled over the next two quarters. Two tri-core Phenom processors will follow in March 2008.
Essentially, AMD will move any remaining Athlon 64 processors from the 90nm node to the 65nm node, with a few new frequency and TDP variations.
The AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ will be the first to jump on the new 65nm K8 bandwagon with a 65W TDP. The previous Windsor-based chip of the same featured an 89-Watt TDP. AMD will also add 100 MHz to the core frequency of the Athlon 64 X2 5600+, now rated at 2.9 GHz. Total L2 cache will be halved in the move to the Brisbane core, and the updated Athlon 64 X2 5600+ chips will feature only 1MB of L2 cache. Availability of these processors is scheduled for Q1 2008.
AMD's higher-end Athlon 64 X2 6400+ and Athlon 64 X2 6000+ will both be discontinued.
AMD will also update its "Energy Efficient" series and will release three new chips, the AMD Athlon 4850e, Athlon 4450e, and Athlon 4050e in Q2 2008. All of the new offerings will be based on AMD's Brisbane core and will feature a 45-Watt thermal envelope. AMD's current energy efficient "BE-2xxx" series will be phased out at that time. Respectively, the new chips will run at 2.5GHz, 2.3GHz and 2.1GHz.
All new Brisbane chips will be based on the Socket AM2 interface. These processors are compatible with AMD's AM2+ socket designated for Phenom processors
http://www.dailytech.com/AMD+Resurrects+K8+Architecture+for+2008+Roadmap/article9899.htm
EDIT.: ARS remembers a few things:
One other thing to keep in mind is that while Phenom's current problems undoubtedly have something to do with the firm's renewed interest in K8, a transition from 90nm to full 65nm production was virtually guaranteed at some point. Starting in the first quarter of 2008, AMD's Fab 30 will undergo a complete facility upgrade, including a shift to 300mm Savewafers and 45nm process technology. All of AMD's 90nm CPUs are currently produced in Fab 30, and although the facility will continue to produce processors while under construction, its 90nm production lines obviously aren't going to stay open forever.
It's in AMD's best interests to move production of the K8 series over to 65nm, regardless of Phenom's competitive status, but it's unfortunate that K10's current situation paints the act with an air of desperation. Ultimately, there's not much AMD can do to improve K8's performance vs. Conroe or Penryn—and focusing on power efficiency can only take the company so far.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/hardware.ars/2007/12/05/amds-k8-gets-a-new-lease-on-life
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"Athlon X2s should start getting quite cheap"
Start? Have you checked prices recently? The X2 line is already ridiculously cheap, even the high-end 90nm variants.
I'm aware of that, I should have clarified that I meant production costs. If AMD's prices are going to have to be considerably under Intel's, they might as well go with whatever is the cheapest to produce. Then again, a good portion of the x2 line is already under $100, but it's looking like phenom will be around to that price range soon enough if they don't get performance straightened out.
AMD is certainly hurting. Their market cap is at 4.9billion now and their shares the lowest in the past 52weeks. Last I recall, they also owed a fair bit, no?
All this would be fine if they something promising on the horizon. Intel will wipe the floor with them in cpu performance and Nvidia is doing the same on the GPU side of things.
Having had Ati/AMD since about 2004, I recently switched to an Intel Q6600/8800GTX setup. Tried as I may, AMD/ATI simply had nothing to offer as competition.
I expect AMD shares to keep dropping for the foreseeable future and hopefully at somepoint they can pull some magic and become competitive. We all benefit from the competition and for that, we need a heatly AMD/ATi. Here's hoping...........
All this would be fine if they something promising on the horizon. Intel will wipe the floor with them in cpu performance and Nvidia is doing the same on the GPU side of things.
Having had Ati/AMD since about 2004, I recently switched to an Intel Q6600/8800GTX setup. Tried as I may, AMD/ATI simply had nothing to offer as competition.
I expect AMD shares to keep dropping for the foreseeable future and hopefully at somepoint they can pull some magic and become competitive. We all benefit from the competition and for that, we need a heatly AMD/ATi. Here's hoping...........
Majority of desktop x2's were produced on 65nm and their manufacturing price cannot drop any more. Only in the high-end where there were no 65nm x2's before (>2.7GHz) manufacturing prices will drop.
Not that I don't agree with your point, but speaking from a lot of experience: it's often the best place to find out about layoff's at other sites of your company, long before management tells you about it!
[...]
A quick survey of AMD partners indicated that customers with specialized needs such as Appro and Los Altos, Calif.-based Liquid Computing were having Opteron orders filled, contrary to The Tech Report source.
Keith Millar, VP of product management at Liquid Computing, said his company's relatively low-volume processor requirements and position as a leader in a cutting-edge technology space gave it a special relationship with AMD.
"AMD's been treating us pretty good. We're in a different situation than HP or Dell because we're the leading provider of fabric computing architecture, which is a disruptor technology, and our volume needs aren't nearly as high. So we get the love and attention from AMD and we get fast-tracked," Millar said.
[...]
"There's one and only one reason this happens [DAAMIT delays] -- time-to-market pressures being placed ahead of engineering. And when it happens, the vendors deserve every single bit of the negative publicity they get," de Raadt told ChannelWeb.
"Modern processors don't all go into gamer machines. People need this stuff to work."
http://www.crn.com/hardware/204701424?cid=topicalFeed
ALSO: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/06/opteron_delays_amd/
Everyone that buys a quad core is a gamer
A quick survey of AMD partners indicated that customers with specialized needs such as Appro and Los Altos, Calif.-based Liquid Computing were having Opteron orders filled, contrary to The Tech Report source.
Keith Millar, VP of product management at Liquid Computing, said his company's relatively low-volume processor requirements and position as a leader in a cutting-edge technology space gave it a special relationship with AMD.
"AMD's been treating us pretty good. We're in a different situation than HP or Dell because we're the leading provider of fabric computing architecture, which is a disruptor technology, and our volume needs aren't nearly as high. So we get the love and attention from AMD and we get fast-tracked," Millar said.
[...]
"There's one and only one reason this happens [DAAMIT delays] -- time-to-market pressures being placed ahead of engineering. And when it happens, the vendors deserve every single bit of the negative publicity they get," de Raadt told ChannelWeb.
"Modern processors don't all go into gamer machines. People need this stuff to work."
http://www.crn.com/hardware/204701424?cid=topicalFeed
ALSO: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/06/opteron_delays_amd/
Everyone that buys a quad core is a gamer
vertex_shader
Banned
Any information available about AMD DX10 discrete graphics market share?
Not much of a statistics but I don't know any better: http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html
There entire HD series seem to have around 1.5% marketshare vs ~13% for 8x00 series
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