The 360-PC speculation.

[EndR]

Ok,so this is purely speculation from my side, obviously so take it for what it is worth.
I saw the other thread: http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22260 in which some already talked about what I am speculating on..

Anyways, here ya go...

This is a speculation of mine, that have some ground. This has also to do with a possible HD-drive uppgrade.

My speculation is based on different stuff that Vista, the next Windows will support and also the rumour about 2-3 different versions of 360.

There has been speculations about an HD-dvd upgrade for 360 and many will say that add-on is NOT the way to go. It would not be able to be used in games and it will probably sell less than 10% (as add-ons usually do).

The only way MS can put a HD-drive in a 360 without pissing people off (but still be for movieplay-back and not for games) is if they introduced it with a.. 360-PC.

A 360-PC is basically a 360 with some modifications (not necessary but due to the usage of Vista, more RAM and a bigger hdd are probably stuff that are needed):

*More RAM: maybe up to a 1Gb. This would not affect 360 games because they would still only access to 512Mb. The rest of the RAM is for Vista and when using it as a PC.
*Bigger HDD: Over 100Gb at least
*HD-drive: For HD-movies, but of course.. it can read all dvds, cds etc.

Other than this, it is as 360. Why would MS make a 360-PC?
Well, Sony has plans of selling pre-installed Linux in every hdd they sell. Still, it is an add-on and add-ons don´t usually sell, it could still make some kind of impact.

Apples Mac-Mini is in a interesting position. It´s low price and minimalistic design could attract more and more costumers. This coupled with Ipod and Apple might have something in their hands.

BY introducing a 360-PC, MS have something to fight back with and also, they will have another plattform that pushes Windows Vista, besides the PC.. Now, MS have made comments about lots of things that leads me to think that a 360-PC would be possible.

1. XNA. MS new set of tools is designed forbetter interaction between PC and 360. This will probably help out alot in this area. XboxLive is destined for PC and Xbox360, according to several different statements.

2. Virtual PC. MS bought Conectix, a company that worked with emulation of windows and such, for PowerPC-architecture. MS has also said that Vista will be modular and plattform independent. It will run on different architectures, so running on a PPC-core should not be a problem.

3. Functions in Vista. Vista has some functions that resemble a console regarding games. MS is pushing for something called "soft installations", meaning that games can either be played straight from the cd or that the game installes or cache:s some files (but in the background) in the hdd.


A 360-PC, with more ram, bigger hdd and hd-player, could be sold relativly cheap, around 500 dollars or sligthly more but in that neighbourhood and it would be a very attractive piece of equipment. A nice entry computer, with the newest Windows. A great gaming machine. For students or people with not so much money, this could be sweet and this would surely add to the hardware sales. This gives people choice also, do I want a gaming-machine with some multimedia capabilites or do I want a fully fledge computer, that is also a gaming machine and with extended multimedia capabilites for some dollars more...

I wouldn´t be suprised if MS annouced this sometime next year and that it would be released for late 2006 (when they have the time to maybe change to 65nm process for the components and memory prices have dropped a bit)...
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IS this something that would be feasible? MS have talked about several versions of Vista, more versions than any other Windows. Maybe there is a "Vista 360"-version in there some where.

Maybe the hardware changes I proposed (more RAM), requires a modification in the mobo and maybe that is out of the question entirely, this I don´t know.

But from an "idea"-standpoint, is this something MS would try to pursue?

 

[PC-Engine]

It would be nice but it would also piss off other PC manufacturers.

 

[Platon]

Well, it for sure could happen. What I am thinking though is if this could lead to make it easier to pirate xbox games and the other would this be an upgradeable system?...

 

[EndR]

It would be nice but it would also piss off other PC manufacturers.

Yeah, probably on of the biggest concerns I had with this...what will the likes of Dell, HP, etc etc think about this...

 

[rabidrabbit]

I believe an xbox360 PC will be released by MS a year or two after xbox360 is released, with close to those modifications to standard xbox360 you listed.
But as you said, add-ons rarely sell that well, and while the xbox360 PC isn't an add-on as such, it is in danger of being viewed as such.

If I already own an xbox360 and a PC, In don't see a reason for buying an xbox360 PC

If I already own xbox360 but not a PC, I am likely not interested or need the extra functions a full PC offers. xbox360 online and media capabilities will likely satisfy me.

If I don't own an xbox360 nor PC, I might buy the xbox360 PC. Or then again not, as maybe I'm just not that interested in videogames and would rather buy a PC from a wider selection.

If I own a Playstation3 I think I rather just buy the HDD addon with Linux for it.
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.
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I see little market for a xbox360 PC. But then again it must not cost much for MS to release one, or licence the xbox360 tech to some other manufacturer (Alienware?) and let them do the job and just pick up some royalities.

 

[EndR]

Well, it for sure could happen. What I am thinking though is if this could lead to make it easier to pirate xbox games and the other would this be an upgradeable system?...

I think it actually might be "more secure". MS has said that all their games must have a LiveAware-function. Now, MS could use this function as a secure measurement that the 360PC is running legal copies of things (at least, legal copies of their software).

Of course, this means that the 360-PC must be connected to internet.. but still, via XboxLive, MS has something that kinda helps the out in the battle for piracy.. (to some extent)

 

[EndR]

I believe an xbox360 PC will be released by MS a year or two after xbox360 is released, with close to those modifications to standard xbox360 you listed.
But as you said, add-ons rarely sell that well, and while the xbox360 PC isn't an add-on as such, it is in dange of being viewed as such.

If I already own an xbox360 and a PC, In don't see a reason for buying an xbox360 PC

Of course, you already have everything you need.

If I already own xbox360 but not a PC, I am likely not interested or need the extra functions a full PC offers. xbox360 online and media capabilities will likely satisfy me.

But surely you would need a PC. What about email, and/or other types of apps (office stuff etc, browsing the net) etc etc.

If I don't own an xbox360 nor PC, I might buy the xbox360 PC. Or then again not, as maybe I'm just not that interested in videogames and would rather buy a PC from a wider selection.

If the 360-PC can offer 360 games AND lets you play PC games as well (thanks to the soft installations that Vista uses). Games like The Sims or RTS games could easily be played on 360-PC. 360 has the USBslots for a mouse and a keyboard, so you can get the best games of both worlds here.

If I own a Playstation3 I think I rather just buy the HDD addon with Linux for it.
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.
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I see little market for a xbox360 PC. But then again it must not cost much for MS to release one, or licence the xbox360 tech to some other manufacturer (Alienware?) and let them do the job and just pick up some royalities.

I see a great market for 360-PC. For people with not so much money but still wants to have a decent PC and an awesome games console.

Besides..
I don´t think that their are really competing (PC and 360) but giving more options. I mean, videogames are really a luxury item, a computer is something that is almost essential in every home. If a family is in the decision of buying a computer or a videogame, which one do you think would benefit the family more? The computer of course and by that, MS looses a costumer (granted, the same family "could" buy a 360 later on, but they could also choose a competitor, Rev or PS3).

Now, if the same family is given a choice between a 360, a computer OR a 360-PC, then suddenly the 360-PC seems like sweet deal. You have the possibility of playing great games but you have also the functionality of a fully fledged computer. Not only that, but hopefully, it is cheaper than a computer would be on a comparable tech-level. As you can see, MS have now sold a 360 (the pc version) but could add this to the 360 sales figures because 360-PC also plays the 360 games (and also PC-games, if you remember the soft installation functions. Sims, RTS etc could now be doable on a console, just add a mouse and keyboard, 360 has the usb-ports for it)

If a 360-PC could be sold for around 500 dollars, it would hit a very sweet spot. By selling different types of software, MS gains more royalties from this.. and with luck, those who now bought 360-PC, maybe also got XboxLive Gold-membership, which would add even more money for MS...

 

[Slay]

I think it actually might be "more secure". MS has said that all their games must have a LiveAware-function. Now, MS could use this function as a secure measurement that the 360PC is running legal copies of things (at least, legal copies of their software).

Of course, this means that the 360-PC must be connected to internet.. but still, via XboxLive, MS has something that kinda helps the out in the battle for piracy.. (to some extent)

MS can hype their live functions all they want, but the truth is that in the current gen only a 10% of xbox users have a live subscription, so using internet to prevent piracy is practicaly useless for them, and don't forget how many hours after their "no windows update unless you have original windows" plan came operational, before some hacks appeared on the net.

 

[EndR]

MS can hype their live functions all they want, but the truth is that in the current gen only a 10% of xbox users have a live subscription, so using internet to prevent piracy is practicaly useless for them, and don't forget how many hours after their "no windows update unless you have original windows" plan came operational, before some hacks appeared on the net.

The thing is that every 360 will ship with a silver-membership of XboxLive. So every 360 owner will have XboxLive for free, but will not let you do things like play online-games.. (but mmorpgs you can play.) Silver membership still lets you do a lot of things via online.

The only problem here is how many of these user will actually connect their 360 to internet...
I don´t say that XboxLIve is the best way to go to make a secure platform, but it is another tool that helps out in some ways yes...

 

[rabidrabbit]

I see a great market for 360-PC. For people with not so much money but still wants to have a decent PC and an awesome games console.

Then they'll probably buy the more established Playstation brand (assuming the personal computer functionality is going to be competitive in PS3). Especially if they don't have so much money, they'll not likely be taking risks.

Besides..
I don´t think that their are really competing (PC and 360) but giving more options. I mean, videogames are really a luxury item, a computer is something that is almost essential in every home. If a family is in the decision of buying a computer or a videogame, which one do you think would benefit the family more? The computer of course and by that, MS looses a costumer (granted, the same family "could" buy a 360 later on, but they could also choose a competitor, Rev or PS3).
Now, if the same family is given a choice between a 360, a computer OR a 360-PC, then suddenly the 360-PC seems like sweet deal. You have the possibility of playing great games but you have also the functionality of a fully fledged computer....

Choices, choices, choices... if the family sees the computer as a "must for every home", for mommy to email the family friends or browsing the latest holiday photos, for kids to play games, for daddy to view porn while the family watches TV series or plays videogames.... oh wait! Daddy can't because the family is using the xbox360 PC in the livingroom!!!
I don't see the xbox360PC so much a family oriented device, in fact I see it should be marketet to those living alone, young adults or teenage nerds who keep it in their own room... but those likely already have a PC, so no sell for them either.

 

[EndR]

Then they'll probably buy the more established Playstation brand (assuming the personal computer functionality is going to be competitive in PS3). Especially if they don't have so much money, they'll not likely be taking risks.

Problem here is add on. Sony will sell a pre installed version of Linux in every hdd but it will still be an add on. A 360-PC is a whole unit and will therefore have a greater impact (360-PC is a stand alone product, not an add on)

Choices, choices, choices... if the family sees the computer as a "must for every home", for mommy to email the family friends or browsing the latest holiday photos, for kids to play games, for daddy to view porn while the family watches TV series or plays videogames.... oh wait! Daddy can't because the family is using the xbox360 PC in the livingroom!!!
I don't see the xbox360PC so much a family oriented device, in fact I see it should be marketet to those living alone, young adults or teenage nerds who keep it in their own room... but those likely already have a PC, so no sell for them either.

Who says that the 360-PC MUST Be in the living-room? It can be connected to a monitos as well and be used as normal computer would be... but now, Little freddy can buy 360 games as well as pc games and play it in the some box. Otherwise, the family "must" buy little freddy a videogame console, besides the family computer. Or even better, if it really is afforadble (around 500 for the 360-PC), then the family can buy one unit for little freddy, one for daddy and one for mummy...

just because it is a 360-PC, it dosen´t mean that i autmatically must be in the living room, it can be where ever you want it to be...

 

[London Geezer]

Problem here is add on. Sony will sell a pre installed version of Linux in every hdd but it will still be an add on. A 360-PC is a whole unit and will therefore have a greater impact (360-PC is a stand alone product, not an add on)

Not necessarily. Like there might be 2 or more versions of X360, there can be very well be 2 versions of PS3, one the normal version and the other sold with the HDD included and whatever extras you want. So it's pretty much the same. The fact that there can also be add-ons for the normal version is another discussion.

 

[EndR]

Not necessarily. Like there might be 2 or more versions of X360, there can be very well be 2 versions of PS3, one the normal version and the other sold with the HDD included and whatever extras you want. So it's pretty much the same. The fact that there can also be add-ons for the normal version is another discussion.

Well, that is true, Sony could do the same thing and bundle a hdd with linux with their PS3. Then the battle will be betweem PS3 with Linux or 360 with Windows Vista-360 edition...

 

[Guden Oden]

Even if it was just one problem witth the concept of a x360-PC (and there isn't), this one is enough to kill the whole idea stone dead:

The x360 CPU isn't x86 compatible.

The only other non-x86 compatible system around that isn't either dead or dying is the Mac, and Apple holds a low-end single-digit percentage of the market

What software would you run on this x360-PC? There's NOTHING planned for it, and emulating a x86 processor is just prepostrous. It'd be so slow it's silly.

 

[PC-Engine]

Then they'll probably buy the more established Playstation brand

Who other than geeks/nerds will want a PS3 Linux computer over a Xbox 360 Vista (Windows) PC?

What software would you run on this x360-PC? There's NOTHING planned for it, and emulating a x86 processor is just prepostrous. It'd be so slow it's silly.

Didn't Windows NT run on a bunch of different ISAs? What's to stop MS from releasing a special version of Vista to work on Xbox 360 PC?

 

[rabidrabbit]

Who other than geeks/nerds will want a PS3 Linux computer over a Xbox 360 Vista (Windows) PC?
Didn't Windows NT run on a bunch of different ISAs? What's to stop MS from releasing a special version of Vista to work on Xbox 360 PC?

What's the difference? Would a xbox360 based PC be able to run most PC apps after all even if it ran on a specially coded version of Windows Vista for xbox360PC?

Would a xbox360 PC require new software to be bought (Office x360, Photoshop x360, eMule x360!!! ???). If so, it would face just the same, if not more severe limitations in the eyes of the potential customer as the PS3 Linux based OS.

We don't know what kind of graphical interface the PS3 Linux will have, but I'd guess it won't be some that is readily available like KDE, but something done by Sony (and IBM?) and I wouldn't be surprised if it were something very simple like PSX and PSP interfaces.

Not text input for Linux "geeks/nerds" for sure.

 

[PC-Engine]

A hypothetical Xbox 360 PC would come with the special Windows Vista preinstalled. I don't see how this special version couldn't be made to be compatible with other Vista software out of the box or through software patches.

 

[London Geezer]

A hypothetical Xbox 360 PC would come with the special Windows Vista preinstalled. I don't see how this special version couldn't be made to be compatible with other Vista software out of the box or through software patches.

What would a X360-PC or a PS3-PC do that i can't do much more easily on my PC-PC? Much more easily because my PC is already set up and working.

 

[PC-Engine]

What would a X360-PC or a PS3-PC do that i can't do much more easily on my PC-PC? Much more easily because my PC is already set up and working.

Well it would have a nice powerful GPU already built-in. It would be nice as a second computer or a first computer for people who don't already have one.

 

[London Geezer]

Well it would have a nice powerful GPU already built-in. It would be nice as a second computer or a first computer for people who don't already have one.

Yes it has a nice powerful GPU which is used to play X360 games, not need for it being a PC there. Or are you saying that PC games will come out and be compatible with an hypotetical X360-PC?