Technical Game Engine Comparisons: non-subjective *OffTopic Cleanup Spawn*

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OCASM said:
The chase scene is 99% scripted, unscripted gameplay is far more complex. U4 is vastly different from GTAV. To use them interchangeably just because both run at 30fps is just silly.
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You didn't get the point. I don't care if GTA5 is more complex than Uncharted 4, those 2 games still are more complex than a simple multiplayer game with no game mechanics... and this is usually true for any game running at 30fps. GTS runs at 60fps precisely because it's a simple racing game with far less ressources needed to create a credible world. What is silly is to argue that Uncharted 4 runs at 30fps because it's an unoptimized game...

Yet i asked you a simple question that you failed to answer : which game is more difficult to run at 60 fps between Battlefront and Uncharted ? There's not a single game comparable to Uncharted 4 that runs at 60fps. The closest one in terms of scale, ambition and gameplay possibilies is MG5. Otherwise, you only have linear FPS such as Doom or Wolfenstein.

Read again : "The biggest moment where tech came together was the E3 chase sequence. This by far was the biggest environment when it comes to driven distance and the amount of different environmental styles as you go from the market to the docks. When it came to memory, LOD tech, modularity, streaming, car physics, prop destructibility it was an extreme challenge. Nobody at this studio or any studio for that matter has tried to do a level section with that complexity when it came to the amount of art assets that needed to be created to make all these sections of the chase."

Now let's see a comparable scene in Battlefront :


I wonder if it's even possible to do something more linear and basic than that... what makes Battlefront a technical showcase is the whole package, but certainly not its complexity. The same thing at 30fps would not impress anyone because it's way too basic. If we include the framerate in the equation, it's indeed very impressive.

Jupiter said:
Why should there be more different assets in this place in Uncharted 4 than in Battlefront? In Battlefront, players can also have different faces, races, weapons, etc.
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Because it's true... the Endor map has the same assets repeated over and over. You need far more variety to create a credible representation of an actual market :

9EacBiv.jpg


How many different kind of plants do we find in Endor ? 2 or 3 ?

Once again, in this single image, you have more different assets than in the whole map of Endor...

Not to mention that Uncharted 4 is full of objects like that during the whole game : https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6481297/statue.0.gif

Something that isn't needed in Battlefront.

As far as I know Gears of War 6 has a 60fps mode one Xbox One X.
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Here's the reality :


They couldn't even achieve a stable framerate even at 1080p with screen tearing... i don't need to continue with the rest of your message. This example alone shows how wrong are your claims.
 
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Recop said:
Here's the reality :


They couldn't even achieve a stable framerate even at 1080p with screen tearing... i don't need to continue with the rest of your message. This example alone shows how wrong are your claims.
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To be honest I am super impressed about GoW4 on vanilla XBOX One than on X.
Why? That game has an amazing amount of detail and effects, and despite that it is supposed to be 1080p dynamic it does manage 30fps throughout and 1080p almost 100% of the time. The visual quality is close to PS4 levels without any visible sacrifices to the point that the XBOX One presents itself as equal to the PS4.
I have no idea how they achieved that but it is one of this generation's underrated games
 
Recop said:
You didn't get the point. I don't care if GTA5 is more complex than Uncharted 4, those 2 games still are more complex than a simple multiplayer game with no game mechanics... and this is usually true for any game running at 30fps. GTS runs at 60fps precisely because it's a simple racing game with far less ressources needed to create a credible world. What is silly is to argue that Uncharted 4 runs at 30fps because it's an unoptimized game...

Yet i asked you a simple question that you failed to answer : which game is more difficult to run at 60 fps between Battlefront and Uncharted ? There's not a single game comparable to Uncharted 4 that runs at 60fps. The closest one in terms of scale, ambition and gameplay possibilies is MG5. Otherwise, you only have linear FPS such as Doom or Wolfenstein.

Read again : "The biggest moment where tech came together was the E3 chase sequence. This by far was the biggest environment when it comes to driven distance and the amount of different environmental styles as you go from the market to the docks. When it came to memory, LOD tech, modularity, streaming, car physics, prop destructibility it was an extreme challenge. Nobody at this studio or any studio for that matter has tried to do a level section with that complexity when it came to the amount of art assets that needed to be created to make all these sections of the chase."

Now let's see a comparable scene in Battlefront :


I wonder if it's even possible to do something more linear and basic than that... what makes Battlefront a technical showcase is the whole package, but certainly not its complexity. The same thing at 30fps would not impress anyone because it's way too basic. If we include the framerate in the equation, it's indeed very impressive.



Because it's true... the Endor map has the same assets repeated over and over. You need far more variety to create a credible representation of an actual market :

9EacBiv.jpg


How many different kind of plants do we find in Endor ? 2 or 3 ?

Once again, in this single image, you have more different assets than in the whole map of Endor...

Not to mention that Uncharted 4 is full of objects like that during the whole game : https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6481297/statue.0.gif

Something that isn't needed in Battlefront.



Here's the reality :


They couldn't even achieve a stable framerate even at 1080p with screen tearing... i don't need to continue with the rest of your message. This example alone shows how wrong are your claims.
Click to expand...

Uncharted 4 is usually not more complex than Battlefront. Not all scenes in Uncharted 4 are like the vehicle scene. Most are even much smaller and simpler than Endor.

There are more assets than you think since ferns and trees differ for example. This chase scene in Battlefront is one of the most demanding moments (GPU) in the game because the combination of extremly high speeds and an enormous degree of detail on the ground (tesselation high density, etc.). And they can do that at 60fps while DriveClub with 30fps looks much worse. DriveClub has bad vegetation shading and no backlight scattering which makes it look like plastic. The Imposters are bad and therefore the trees have often white outlines. Even with 30fps there is no visible AF, bad DoF and poor HDR due the bright clouds in grey weather. With more time DriveClub could have run at 60fps. Onrush doesn't look worse and runs better.

Management can of course limit which is a bigger problem for aiming at 60fps on the CPU. It depends on how much admin stuff is wanted. How large the CPU load will be is, just as the graphical detail, a design decision. Some things have fixed cost no matter what frame rate is aimed (AI for example). With 16ms instead of 30ms one has to better use the main thread or parallelise things. Especially if the console CPUs are considered. When the Xbox One game gets an Xbox One X patch it will not make it a 60fps game even when the graphics get lowered. If one has a 30fps Xbox 360 game and port it to the Xbox One it will mostly still run at 30 fps because the CPU is not so much faster that the same code runs twice as fast while the GPU has not so much to do at 1080p. Therefore, the argument with the Xbox One X patch is not valid. If the engine would use the CPU perfectly there would be more enhanced 60fps games on the Xbox One X.
 
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Recop said:
You didn't get the point. I don't care if GTA5 is more complex than Uncharted 4, those 2 games still are more complex than a simple multiplayer game with no game mechanics... and this is usually true for any game running at 30fps. GTS runs at 60fps precisely because it's a simple racing game with far less ressources needed to create a credible world. What is silly is to argue that Uncharted 4 runs at 30fps because it's an unoptimized game...

Yet i asked you a simple question that you failed to answer : which game is more difficult to run at 60 fps between Battlefront and Uncharted ? There's not a single game comparable to Uncharted 4 that runs at 60fps. The closest one in terms of scale, ambition and gameplay possibilies is MG5. Otherwise, you only have linear FPS such as Doom or Wolfenstein.

Read again : "The biggest moment where tech came together was the E3 chase sequence. This by far was the biggest environment when it comes to driven distance and the amount of different environmental styles as you go from the market to the docks. When it came to memory, LOD tech, modularity, streaming, car physics, prop destructibility it was an extreme challenge. Nobody at this studio or any studio for that matter has tried to do a level section with that complexity when it came to the amount of art assets that needed to be created to make all these sections of the chase."

Now let's see a comparable scene in Battlefront :


I wonder if it's even possible to do something more linear and basic than that... what makes Battlefront a technical showcase is the whole package, but certainly not its complexity. The same thing at 30fps would not impress anyone because it's way too basic. If we include the framerate in the equation, it's indeed very impressive.



Because it's true... the Endor map has the same assets repeated over and over. You need far more variety to create a credible representation of an actual market :

9EacBiv.jpg


How many different kind of plants do we find in Endor ? 2 or 3 ?

Once again, in this single image, you have more different assets than in the whole map of Endor...

Not to mention that Uncharted 4 is full of objects like that during the whole game : https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6481297/statue.0.gif

Something that isn't needed in Battlefront.



Here's the reality :


They couldn't even achieve a stable framerate even at 1080p with screen tearing... i don't need to continue with the rest of your message. This example alone shows how wrong are your claims.
Click to expand...
Why are you comparing what you claim is the most demanding part of U4 against a not so demanding part of BF? Because fairness is not your thing. You also completely ignore the fact that at 60fps you have half the time to complete a frame.

A more fair comparison is MP vs MP and in that scenario BF wins.
 
Where is the complex Simulation in this scene that is always spoken of? The scene is small and I've seen such scenes in tech demos with hundreds of fps. Small scene and The Division has thousands of such rooms in an open world. Here with some hybrid raytracing.

The Division (6) by X-RAY-89, auf Flickr

When I compare vegetation sections Uncharted 4 is no match against Battlefront.
 
This is a real dumb conversation and I'm loathe to contribute, but people aren't presenting at all comparable cases. It's like Top Trumps for cars being compared to Top Trumps for dinosaurs. So just in this case, the Division example is nothing like as detailed as Uncharted. Unless the owner had some weird book arranging fetish. The lighting and diversity in Uncharted is beyond anything in any other game, I think. But then it's a completely different scenario, a small, compact, static environment. Trying to compare the market scene in UC4 to SWBF's Endor is just daft.

Truth is, no-one contributing to this discussion has any knowledge of the tech involved in these engines beyond a bit of guesswork based on what they think is prettier, and maybe some personally derived pseudo equation like (detail * res * framerate / cheats) == technical brilliance. If you've no idea how the engine is working and what problems the devs are having to overcome, how can you determine the technical competence of what's on screen?

And nothing's more obnoxious than finding worst-case screenshots to compare with one's favourite title of the moment.

This thread should really be about a technical comparison of the approaches engines use and the different compromises.

In fact, I've decided this thread is shit and doesn't belong in the technical forum. If people want to try again with an actual, fair look at different games (ideally on the same platform) to see what features devs are achieving and what compromises they're making, go for it.
 
Karamazov said:
The facial animation beats detroit imo.
When she chews that larva, that was Really Good
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I think Uncharted 4 beats it as well. But that game has how many hours worth of cutscenes? Two? That and a mere handful of characters to work with. Detroit on the other hand is a 20+-hour movie (if you include all the possible ways the story can branch out) with an insane amount of actors in it. There's probaly 50 people in the thing. If you take that into account the quality is pretty damn spectacular and also fairly consistent.
 
chris1515 said:
I prefer facial animation in TLOU 2, they are better and not only facial animation but body muscle animation is better.
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Also, it's not a fair comparison since in the TLOU2 gameplay, there are tons of dialogues while in the Death Stranding trailer the characters almost never talk. Sure it looks quite good, but let's see how is the facial animation when there's a proper dialogue in this game.

To me, TLOU2 is the most impressive game of the E3, both graphically and technically.
 
Recop said:
Also, it's not a fair comparison since in the TLOU2 gameplay, there are tons of dialogues while in the Death Stranding trailer the characters almost never talk. Sure it looks quite good, but let's see how is the facial animation when there's a proper dialogue in this game.

To me, TLOU2 is the most impressive game of the E3, both graphically and technically.
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Isn't it actually more challenging to have convincing faces when the characters aren't talking all the time? That's when you need subtlety the most.
 
Recop said:
Also, it's not a fair comparison since in the TLOU2 gameplay, there are tons of dialogues while in the Death Stranding trailer the characters almost never talk. Sure it looks quite good, but let's see how is the facial animation when there's a proper dialogue in this game.

To me, TLOU2 is the most impressive game of the E3, both graphically and technically.
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That part where the woman eats that larvae looked more impressive to me than the facial expressions in the cut scenes of TLOU2 in the latest video.

But those expressions in the initial TLOU2 reveal are unmatched. There is a discrepancy between what we saw then and what we saw recently
 
OCASM said:
Nah, both are shooting for photorealism. KP is just better at it.
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No Naugthy Dog said they don't want photorealism at all and the art direction is stylized.

Edit: Quantic Dreams and Kojima productions are the only studio working with Sony seeking photorealism.
 
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