Tax cuts bolster US economy to 7.2% growth rate.

[Sabastian]

That 7.2 % growth was accompanied by no job growth. I dont think its sustainable and Id bet it was at least partly realized by adding to consumer debt... But any economy will have short bursts of growth like this. I just dont see the foundations for long lasting growth.

I don't recall the last time the Canadian economy experienced that kind of growth rate. I do think that the next quarter will definitely show more of the same sort of growth in the US, granted it would be shocking if it were equally impressive or better. It may take some time for profits to turn into jobs and expanding companies, it is not absolutely guaranteed but it certainly is a logical outcome.

 

[Willmeister]

If you have such a high opinion of it, then you could always move. You'd be surrounded by millions of likeminded people. No surprise you support that Yank in Sheeps Clothing, Paul Martin. It's getting bad to worse in this country. Mulrooney -> Chretien -> Martin.

If the National Post gave Martin even half the roughtime they gave Chretien, then we should see a scandal that puts HRDC in it's place. Paul Martin, as finance minister, wrote into law, tax cuts for his own company, then turned around and claimed those under him did it. It's interesting how Martin started jumping all over Chretien when his own personal tax cut cost 12 times what Radwonski misspent...

 

[Sabastian]

If you have such a high opinion of it, then you could always move. You'd be surrounded by millions of likeminded people.

My sakes, I was just thinking that very thing. I was just giving you ideas on places to move should the new federal conservative party come into power.

OFF TOPIC: I read about that racist poster that some politically correct left wing nut bar posted at the university, what a joke, who do them idiots think they are fooling anyhow? What is the current take on that over there on campus?

 

[Willmeister]

I've never heard leftists promoting 'ethnic cleansing', that seems to be a hobby of right-wingers. Not since Mao anyways.

$50.00 says it was a sick joke anyways. I figured someone was trying to create a distraction because they didn't want to take a math exam at the time. Police said room was empty which makes me suspect it was a joke. No one could be stupid enough to post a meeting like that and NOT expect the cops to show up.

 

[Sabastian]

I've never heard leftists promoting 'ethnic cleansing', that seems to be a hobby of right-wingers.

$50.00 says it was a sick joke anyways.

lol, didn't you read the poster? Look at the wording of it and tell me the person who wrote it was not politically correct. They used words like minorities, African Americans etc. It wasn't written by a racist. It was written by someone who wants to raise a specter of racism. I don't know a single person in Fredericton that would subscribe to what was stated in that poster and I have been living here nearly 15 years. The only persons whom have this type of thinking on their minds are in the liberal Arts. In other words it was an Arts student whom posted the article. Even the police think it is some sort of joke. If it was the whole idea totally backfired on the kids who posted it and now they are being searched out. I entirely believe that it was not written by any racist and the politically correct tone of the wording is a complete give away. If you can not see that then you are even blinder to the bias then I thought. Who in their right mind would request that everyone meet at Tilley Hall on Oct30 at 7pm anyhow? Only an absolute moron would post this and expect a positive outcome, on the university campus no less. Unless of course, it was not sincere and the writer having other prerogatives such as inflaming racial tensions and granting more credibility to left wing racist arguments. The poster is a joke or it is politically motivated in some way. If there are people that believe that the poster was legit they are a real suckers. Obviously you do not believe it was legit or else you would not wager on it, but I am willing to take the joke a little further and suggest that it is a result of some over zealous left wing zealot.

 

[Willmeister]

Then you haven't lived in Fredericton long enough. There is an undercurrent of racism in this town, with a kind of biblical bent to it, especially when it comes to aboriginals. Some think that just because we didn't have slavery that Canadians are somehow immune to racism (you've never been around the water cooler when 'Pakis' come up have you?). That's a big problem in Canada (it's a big problem everywhere; I think it's a reaction spurred by change). All we seem to care about is being better than the big bad racist USA, which is stupid because if the USA wasn't at the bottom of all these things, that place would belong to Canada.

I remember when my parents had a woman from Japan and we're eating at the old food court in the Fredericton Mall. A bunch of youths pulled the chair out from under her and started laughing. My parents were like everyone else, I guess, shocked. So, yes. Racism is everywhere whether we like it or not.

Just because this town has two universities doesn't mean squat when it comes to intelligence. My money is that it was some stupid prank, done by an person with average intelligence, like the fire extinguishers and that anthrax scare last year. Just because the person has a computer with a spell checker and thesaurus means squat. Don't try to be Sherlock Holmes and perform in-depth psychological and 'political' make-up and ensure that your bias is laid on pretty thick. Infer what you will Sabastian. You're the type of person who could turn a weather report into the Communist Manifesto...

The only persons whom have this type of thinking on their minds are in the liberal Arts.

You saying right-wingers can't spell or are to inept at the intricasies of deception? Don't think an engineer, a CS student or a chemistry student didn't think of walking up and posting it in Tilley Hall? Are you saying that 'Liberal Arts' people have some sort of penchant for elaborate use of the English language? And I thought you said you were a PID BTW?

English majors have congratulated me on my English, and I'm in engineering. In my experience, engineers can't spell. Grammar and punctuation are out of the question, even for native English speakers. From business, and me correct my father's English, to my design group, I can say that engineers can't spell. Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. You must remember the grafitti on Regent: "I hate Kraft Diner" about ten years ago.

 

[Sabastian]

Then you haven't lived in Fredericton long enough. There is an undercurrent of racism in this town, with a kind of biblical bent to it, especially when it comes to aboriginals. Some think that just because we didn't have slavery that Canadians are somehow immune to racism (you've never been around the water cooler when 'Pakis' come up have you?). That's a big problem in Canada. All we seem to care about is being better than the big bad racist USA, which is stupid because if the USA wasn't at the bottom of all these things, that place would belong to Canada.

Just because this town has two universities doesn't mean squat when it comes to intelligence. My money is that it was some stupid prank, done by an person with average intelligence, like the fire extinguishers and that anthrax scare last year. Just because the person has a computer with a spell checker and thesaurus means squat. Don't try to be Sherlock Holmes and perform in-depth psychological and 'political' make-up and ensure that your bias is laid on pretty thick. Infer what you will Sabastian. You're the type of person who could turn a weather report into the Communist Manifesto...

OMFG, you don't have a clue... First off who are the racist, name one. Any? Where does this undercurrent as you put it come from? I will tell you where, it is in your freaking head. The University runs wild with overzealous left wing nuts, looks like you fit right in. Again there is not one person that I know of and I know a hell of a lot of people in Fredericton even graduated out of FHS and went to both UNB and St. Thomas. As for the aboriginals I am tired of their first class citizenry but that does not make me racist it makes the countries policies with regards to their special rights racist. That is not indicative of Fredericton that is indicative of the vast majority of Canadians.

 

[Sabastian]

The only persons whom have this type of thinking on their minds are in the liberal Arts.

You saying right-wingers can't spell or are to inept at the intricasies of deception? Don't think an engineer, a CS student or a chemistry student didn't think of walking up and posting it in Tilley Hall? Are you saying that 'Liberal Arts' people have some sort of penchant for elaborate use of the English language? And I thought you said you were a PID BTW?

English majors have congratulated me on my English, and I'm in engineering. In my experience, engineers can't spell. Grammar and punctuation are out of the question, even for native English speakers. From business, and me correct my father's English, to my design group, I can say that engineers can't spell. Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. You must remember the grafitti on Regent: "I hate Kraft Diner" about ten years ago.

Read the article again then and tell me they do not use politically correct language. The University is a festering left wing bunch of morons who can't think for themselves and munch down every last left wing letter they read like it is absolute truth. I know I lived though the brainwashing of the Arts and even was sucked into the culture of it, just like you have been. Anyhow like I said it is ether a joke or a politically motivated piece of trash created by some overzealous left wing nut. But even in the face of the glaring fact that the University is a festering left wing asylum you won't even consider the very likelihood that indeed it was some overzealous left wing Arts nut bar who created it. That speaks volumes about your inability to think outside the box.

PID?

 

[Sxotty]

Really youguys are missing the point.

Economists all say tax cuts make a surge in growth, the question is if it is sustained, and will the incredible deficiets that the "conservatives" are creating going to cause havok later on.

I find it ridiculous that conservatives have tended to tax less, but spend more than the tax lately by far than they tax, and democrats who in the past were accused of similar practices lately have taxed more but spent less than the tax.

The whole notion of conservativism and liberalism is all whacked nowadays.

edit: Also there have not been any new jobs created (at least compared to the # lost) In fact right now there is less job growth than the growth of the population so more people are moving into a workplace with fewer jobs. Hopefully the amount of jobs will also increase soon.


BTW this is GOOD news I want the economy to do better I hope everyone does, I am just saying don't count your chickens b4 they hatch.

 

[Willmeister]

That speaks volumes about your inability to think outside the box.

Sabastian, may I suggest copious amounts of Thorazine to help you control that very acute form of paranoia you have. And considering I had to get you to accept the possibility that it could have been a joke instead of your absolute faith that it was the work of UNB leftists, I must congratulate myself on a job well done to get a simple idea through that thick ideology of yours.

The same people who beat to death that 'fag' are just the tip of the iceberg. Whether we like it or not, we all have racist tendancies, some of us realize it exists and deal with it and not allow the darker parts of our human nature to overwhelm reason.

As an example, I offer my experiences of 'jokes' going around about how some of the professors in the engineering department are Al Qaeda operatives, who send their relatives to Canada for 'safe keeping', and that somehow we can gain foreknowledge of attacks on Fredericton if the dollar stores start closing. They mock and ridicule how some of them have trouble with English as a second language (for which I retort that their Arabic leaves a lot to be desired) with really rank comments about camels and dung (still a fuel source in the region). I frown down on this talk and don't laugh, which isn't that hard to do given the rather slack-jawed nature of such humour. If it's a joke, it's in poor taste and I can live with that. But forever, my perceptions about that person will always be tainted as I remember those comments.

Maybe it's because I'm older than the other students, but I never made comments like that when I was their age. No way. I was more into Kurt Cobain jokes. I wonder if my humour, which does border on South Park/Trailer Park Boys crassness, makes people comfortable when they start saying this sh*t.

Now, if aboriginals are such 'first-class citizenry', why not put it to the test and live there for a year. Canada may have been rated first in the world for standard of living, but those same years, if you considered Canadian native reservations, you'd have been 63rd in the world. Yeah, first-class all right. We can go into the incompetence of Native Affairs some other time.

That is not indicative of Fredericton that is indicative of the vast majority of Canadians.

That's what we like to THINK of ourselves. Again, IMHO, this is the biggest Canadian problem. We're forever comparing ourselves to someone else. Granted, all things are relative, but it's come to a point in this country that we're obsessed so much with measuring ourselves against others, we fail to implement policy for Canadians. We do it just because others have done it. Whether you like it or not, you do the same with your comments about how we have to measure our economy to the USA, which has a wholely different form of economy and environment and somehow emulate it, instead of doing things for Canadians.

In the 1960s, naysayers in this country and the USA publicly mocked the concept of fixed currencies, that Canada wouldn't survive a floating currency regime. We should emulate the USA. They were proven wrong, and it worked for us. Nowadays, floating currencies are du rigeur. The problem is that too many of us are comparing ourselves to others and failing to carefully implement policies that reflect our situation.

BTW, a PID is a person who attends St. Thomas (STU). The use of PID comes from stupid, so you have STU-PID. You said you lived in Fredericton for fifteen years and you didn't even know that? To be fair, I finally broke down and asked someone 'what the f*ck does it mean?'

 

[Willmeister]

The whole notion of conservativism and liberalism is all whacked nowadays.

Welcome to the wonderful world of poltical duopoly, where the illusion of differences between them are usually that, illusions. It's all about power, and the use of power to acquire material things.

I offer the Finance department of Paul Martin as it was totally indistinguishable from Mr. Mazenkowski's (sp?). Or the last US Presidential 'debate' in 2000. Or the privatization plans of Blair versus those of Major.

 

[Natoma]

The economy grew in huge bursts in 2002 as well. 5.8% growth in the first quarter 2002, followed by 3 quarters (2% avg) of lackluster growth for a 2002 growth rate of 2.9% I believe. It should be known that most of that surge came as consumers and businesses resumed normal spending patterns to make up for lost time after the terrorist attacks in 2001 dampened economic output in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

The first half average growth in GDP was 2.35% (1.4% Q1, 3.3% Q2), though many economists think that that was because of the jitters due to the upcoming war. So it doesn't surprise me to see a growth rate of 7.2%. For instance, we held off building our new computer until the war was relatively over. Then we spent $5k on the computer and related parts and accessories in June. A few of my co-workers have done the same thing as the year has progressed.

The questions on my mind are thus,

1) Is this growth a portent of things to come, i.e. not the obscenely high 7.2% rate (helped by the lump sum tax rebates, extremely accomodative economic policy by the Fed, pent up demand from Q1/Q2 pre-war jitters), but something more sustainable such as 4-5% that is required for job growth due to the very high productivity rate our economy currently enjoys?

2) Will this growth translate into a "virtuous cycle" required for job growth? I.e., higher consumer demand spurred by tax cuts empty out inventories, which then force companies to hire more workers to ramp up output, and then those workers go out and purchase more goods, which require even more hires and ramping to match the new demand.

As of this moment I'm a bit skeptical, given the fact that two of the three main factors for this growth rate, i.e. pent up demand from pre-war jitters and lump sum tax rebates, were a one time shot in the arm that happened to coincide with one another. The Fed will continue its accomodative policy. However, it is difficult to say that demand has not petered out after the explosive growth, and it is certain that there won't be any $300 checks coming in the mail anytime soon. The earliest estimates are for Spring '04, and that may not even occur, as alluded to by a bi-partisan coalition in the congress, due to the $87 Billion requested and granted for Iraq.

I certainly hope this is a portent of things to come, but this economy has seen this type of hopeful blip in the past only to fall back into relatively flat growth. If Q4'03 and Q1'04 turn out to be in the 3-5% growth range, then I'll believe it.

Whether the enormous tax cuts, $2 Trillion and counting, to date spur anything other than egregiously harmful long term deficits, especially in light of the massive loss in revenue that is going to occur at the end of this decade when the baby boomers retire and start collecting social security and medicare, is something that remains to be seen.

 

[Willmeister]

Can anyone explain to me why anyone would hold purchasing because of a war half-way around the planet? I'm not sure I quite see a valid reason behind it.

 

[Natoma]

Can anyone explain to me why anyone would hold purchasing because of a war half-way around the planet? I'm not sure I quite see a valid reason behind it.

Many news outlets were reporting a potential rise in terrorist related activity due to the war.

 

[Willmeister]

Many news outlets were reporting a potential rise in terrorist related activity due to the war.

That's still a rather poor reason.

 

[Natoma]

Many news outlets were reporting a potential rise in terrorist related activity due to the war.

That's still a rather poor reason.

It has been well documented that when consumers are afraid for their life or their jobs, they don't spend. Certainly given the events of 2001, and the news outlets all reporting that Al-Qaeda was saying death to the americans if we attack Iraq.

Terrorist related activity affecting our economy 3 years ago just didn't happen. Bombings against the USS Cole? Not a blip. Bombings against our embassies in Africa. Nothing. Hell the WTC bombing in '93 barely did anything. It took 9/11 with those towers coming down, the attack on the pentagon, and that downed flight in Pennsylvania to change all that and show americans that we are indeed very vulnerable to terrorism.

Now when we hear about it, it's taken seriously and people are truly afraid. I don't think that's a poor reason at all. In fact it seems to be a very natural response imo.

 

[Sabastian]

Sabastian, may I suggest copious amounts of Thorazine to help you control that very acute form of paranoia you have.

lol, it isn't paranoia and you know it. Good one though. Granted it is a cheap shot.

The same people who beat to death that 'fag' are just the tip of the iceberg. Whether we like it or not, we all have racist tendancies, some of us realize it exists and deal with it and not allow the darker parts of our human nature to overwhelm reason.

My sakes .... racism is genetic then? Here I thought all this time it was socialized. Looks like we might as well give up on racism all together then.

As an example, I offer my experiences of 'jokes' going around about how some of the professors in the engineering department are Al Qaeda operatives, who send their relatives to Canada for 'safe keeping', and that somehow we can gain foreknowledge of attacks on Fredericton if the dollar stores start closing. They mock and ridicule how some of them have trouble with English as a second language (for which I retort that their Arabic leaves a lot to be desired) with really rank comments about camels and dung (still a fuel source in the region). I frown down on this talk and don't laugh, which isn't that hard to do given the rather slack-jawed nature of such humour. If it's a joke, it's in poor taste and I can live with that. But forever, my perceptions about that person will always be tainted as I remember those comments.

It is in poor taste no question. Racial profiling is an effective method in some cases but I don't agree with labeling random middle eastern people as Al Qaeda operatives if they are serious or malicious but as a joke, I think the label of racism goes too far. You cannot control what people find funny. What sort of draconian laws would have to be in place to control such behavior? However the poster that is in question is such a bad joke if it is a joke that the people who are responsible for it ought to be punished. It is my suspicion however you will find them sitting in Arts classes and more specifically sociology and or sociological related classes such criminology for example that bases their ideas on wishy washy socialization theories often.

Maybe it's because I'm older than the other students, but I never made comments like that when I was their age. No way. I was more into Kurt Cobain jokes. I wonder if my humour, which does border on South Park/Trailer Park Boys crassness, makes people comfortable when they start saying this sh*t.

Nor I. But it is more then that. The only persons I ever hear use that sort of language where sociologist or their zealots. (BTW I lived with a professor of Soc for 3 years, I got an A in her class needless to say.)

Now, if aboriginals are such 'first-class citizenry', why not put it to the test and live there for a year. Canada may have been rated first in the world for standard of living, but those same years, if you considered Canadian native reservations, you'd have been 63rd in the world. Yeah, first-class all right. We can go into the incompetence of Native Affairs some other time.

Free housing, free secondary education, free power, no taxes, special hunting and fishing rights, logging rights and billions spent on their welfare lifestyle. Yeah, talk about incompetence.

That is not indicative of Fredericton that is indicative of the vast majority of Canadians.

That's what we like to THINK of ourselves. Again, IMHO, this is the biggest Canadian problem. We're forever comparing ourselves to someone else. Granted, all things are relative, but it's come to a point in this country that we're obsessed so much with measuring ourselves against others, we fail to implement policy for Canadians. Whether you like it or not, you do the same with your comments about how we have to measure our economy to the USA, which has a wholely different form of economy and environment and somehow emulate it, instead of doing things for Canadians.

In the 1960s, naysayers in this country and the USA publicly mocked the concept of fixed currencies, that Canada wouldn't survive a floating currency regime. We should emulate the USA. They were proven wrong, and it worked for us. Nowadays, floating currencies are du rigeur. The problem is that too many of us are comparing ourselves to others and failing to carefully implement policies that reflect our situation.

Taxation ought to be picked away at as much as possible and Canadians ought to be more responsible for their own well being in my opinion. I don't like the PET legacy. He is responsible for the massive debt we incurred back in the early 80's. Cut taxes, cut spending and reduce the debt for the sake of our children that they not inherit it.

 

[Sabastian]

BTW, a PID is a person who attends St. Thomas (STU). The use of PID comes from stupid, so you have STU-PID. You said you lived in Fredericton for fifteen years and you didn't even know that? To be fair, I finally broke down and asked someone 'what the f*ck does it mean?'

Yeah when I went there I wasn't horribly impressed by my company. BTW I went there nearly 10 years ago. I also attended CompuCollege for their network admin course that has yet to show any yield. There were plenty of jokes back then too. At any rate I took courses at both UNB and STU so I am not a full PID.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

He had to because of an extreme lack of job security and insane pay cuts. Makes less with 2 jobs than he used to with one..

Sounds like someone needs skills retraining. This doesn't (necessarily) mean the economy's bad, any more than it means your uncle doesn't have particularly marketable skills. A changing market for your Uncle's skil set doesn't necessarily mean a bad economy.

...and the only reason the construction job was open is that it's a job no one wants to do.

...yet your uncle does it, so someone is willing to do it.

 

[Willmeister]

My sakes .... racism is genetic then? Here I thought all this time it was socialized. Looks like we might as well give up on racism all together then.

I think it's natural. I think it flows from the hoarding instinct.