Talking to PS3 system software engineers about leading up to "1.80" and its future.

[patsu]

there's the rub.

Xbox1 interface was not available in game either and was how I came to the parallel with PS3 but if they implement the XMB across all functions ala' 360 dashboard then perhaps it will be easier for devs.

In-game access to XMB (or some some subset of it) has been mentioned by quite a few Sony execs and interviewees. So it should be coming, if not already developed to them.

Still there is a mandate by MS that ALL games (including arcade) must have hooks built in for Custom soundtracks (which replace game music only, not the sound effects). Otherwise you could just turn on your stereo and mute your TV like we did in the 80's.

The functionality is certainly not available in PS3 today. But it doesn't mean that the games and firmware can't be patched to make it tomorrow (Warhawk beta, Tekken DR 5, MotorStorm and Resistance all received patches that brought new features).

Once the evolution is complete, I am certain PS3 will offers a whole new world of unique entertainment and community services. As I mentioned a few times, the 3 consoles will diverge over time just because their philosophies and focii are different. Today, there are PS3 features not found on any game consoles or even PCs.

 

[Tap In]

I think you nailed it in one of your earlier posts patsu.

Sony has only lacked FOCUS. they have the tools, the capital and the desire. they just did not have a comprehensive game plan as Microsoft did coming out of the gate. MS had all of the mandated features in place in the hardware with the dashboard since day 1 with every game. Sony is playing catch up in many of the areas to meet MS and they are also, as you said, doing some unique things. It's just that it seems awfully scattered and even reading the article, suggests a more of a seat of their pants kind of plan.

Yes they can retrofit games and whatnot but the thing that attracted me to the 360 in the first place (besides being first to market) was that they came first to market with a definite plan and outlined it at E3 '05 with the features which they continue to refine, not build as they go.

I'm sure as a PS3 owner, I would be thrilled just to know that this is all possible and coming down the pike at some time and I doubt that it has affected current sales by not having these features in place as by the time it reaches a mass market price PS3 will be more fully featured system. It just strikes me as a game of catch up to MS which may define this entire generation for Sony.

 

[DJ12]

The functionality is certainly not available in PS3 today. But it doesn't mean that the games and firmware can't be patched to make it tomorrow (Warhawk beta, Tekken DR 5, MotorStorm and Resistance all received patches that brought new features).

I don't know, the guys said there is the functionality to let people play their own music in games, but the developers need to specifically enable it.

Q.
Linking to games, the 360 has a feature to allow music in the HDD and network to be played back as game BGM.

K1
PS3 already has such function in the system software. It is up to the game developers to use the function. Same goes for pictures and videos.

 

[patsu]

I think you nailed it in one of your earlier posts patsu.

Sony has only lacked FOCUS. they have the tools, the capital and the desire. they just did not have a comprehensive game plan as Microsoft did coming out of the gate.

They do have a comprehensive and ambitious plan. MS acknowledged that too when they saw Home. Sony didn't have a needle sharp focus, and it hurts them as a result (poor messaging and piecemeal rollout). They have improved since last year, but there are still room for improvement.

MS had all of the mandated features in place in the hardware with the dashboard since day 1 with every game. Sony is playing catch up in many of the areas to meet MS and they are also, as you said, doing some unique things. It's just that it seems awfully scattered and even reading the article, suggests a more of a seat of their pants kind of plan.

A minor correction. With something like Home and Game 3.0 concept, Sony is attempting to leap frog. I don't think companies like Apple and SCE play catch up. e.g., Some people said Mac OSX needed to play catch up to MS in early 2000s, but they were actually preparing the groundwork for future features (The focii were something else and then they worked backwards). Naturally, MS will consolidate more features from Windows side and innovate further too.

Yes they can retrofit games and whatnot but the thing that attracted me to the 360 in the first place (besides being first to market) was that they came first to market with a definite plan and outlined it at E3 '05 with the features which they continue to refine, not build as they go.

Sure. Xbox pulled a lot from their Windows/PC and MSN businesses. Sony has to create a whole new software and network foundation from scratch, not to mention a drastically different CPU architecture. Sony's plan exists (You can't run a big corp without one). They are just not communicated to outsiders.

It just strikes me as a game of catch up to MS which may define this entire generation for Sony.

May be... may be not. I am keen to find out more about Playstation Home, Playstation Eye and DLNA + RemotePlay. None are available elsewhere. Even Nintendo Mii is very imaginative.

I don't know, the guys said there is the functionality to let people play their own music in games, but the developers need to specifically enable it.

Sure... still need to patch existing games right ? Sony has mentioned that there is still power left, plus they will listen to the consumers. So if you're keen to have it... feedback to them.

 

[betan]

Still there is a mandate by MS that ALL games (including arcade) must have hooks built in for Custom soundtracks (which replace game music only, not the sound effects).

Huh? Do games have to provide hooks for all music events?

It just strikes me as a game of catch up to MS which may define this entire generation for Sony.

I am sure it does. To me, on the other hand, well integrated online service of MS is hardly generation defining and MS's console business model looks very last gen with lack of any real innovation. That's not to say Sony will do better, but for better or worse, it's hard not to see that PSN is not evolving into PS Live.

I don't know, the guys said there is the functionality to let people play their own music in games, but the developers need to specifically enable it.

That doesn't mean much as they may be providing API for audio file list and access stuff only, minimum but not optimum.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I don't know, the guys said there is the functionality to let people play their own music in games, but the developers need to specifically enable it.

So it's no different than the original Xbox in that regard.

I gotta say though, Sony is pretty awesome at delivering the goods for the hi-end AV users, and are very quickly updating their system with some great features.

I don't think this generation could've worked out any better, talk about competition driving advancements, this constant back and forth is the epitemy of that.

 

[cthellis42]

Pretty soon, A/V will be complete, and it'll be straight into oral favors!

 

[patsu]

So it's no different than the original Xbox in that regard.

XBL is a closed platform. As a result, Xbox 1 and 360 have very well controlled usage model. As a seasoned software platform company, MS does much (or all ?) of the actual work for the developers. I'd imagine the developers have very little to do in Xbox 1. This in contrast with PS3's open platform approach. There are open-ended issues to deal with in exchange for the flexibility, not to mention that PS3 games have access to other things like the web browser, PS Store and Home. I'd say they are very different animals.

Now from user perspective, the problem is -- out of so many combinations -- Sony has not mandated what's compulsory and what's optional; plus their in-game XMB and Home are not released yet. So all we can do now are to speculate and infer from what little we know; or to submit your wish list to Sony to prioritize their pipeline.

I have done the latter. Hopefully other PS3 owners will do so. As the 2 engineers mentioned, they love to hear cool ideas from us. Don't be shy

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't know, the guys said there is the functionality to let people play their own music in games, but the developers need to specifically enable it.

If they allowed 'jump to XMB in game' as many of us are anticipating, games wouldn't need any enabling at all. You could just set the in-game music volume to 0, go to XMB and open up your music playing, then hop back to the game.

 

[betan]

If they allowed 'jump to XMB in game' as many of us are anticipating, games wouldn't need any enabling at all. You could just set the in-game music volume to 0, go to XMB and open up your music playing, then hop back to the game.

This is not a given. In-game XMB doesn't imply accessibility of all of its standalone functionality. Do you expect to watch videos or browse the web as well?
I really don't expect any audio player availability in game, especially in a state totally transparent to the game.

 

[patsu]

I think it's more complex than that. In my understanding, the in-game sound (e.g., explosions) will still be audible when you use custom music.

 

[Tap In]

I think it's more complex than that. In my understanding, the in-game sound (e.g., explosions) will still be audible when you use custom music.

correct... at least with the implementation on X360. I would hope (for PS3 owners) that the engineer that made that statement about future possibility of custom soundtrack use with PS3 would be implying the same.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This is not a given. In-game XMB doesn't imply accessibility of all of its standalone functionality.

I wouldn't expect all functionality, but you could 'grey out' excessive features. Given the amount of OS reserved resources, there's plenty in theory to allow the OS resources to run MP3s or let you visit a website, which would be most intuitively accessed through a known standard interface IMO, rather than spreading them around a game options.

 

[patsu]

Exactly ! For people who are interested in this sort of things. Write in to that blog. We know Sony is also looking into in-game Playstation Home avatar. With our input, they may look at the challenge more holistically.

 

[betan]

I think it's more complex than that. In my understanding, the in-game sound (e.g., explosions) will still be audible when you use custom music.

Are you replying to Shifty? If so he is referring to the fact that pretty much all games have separate volume control for music, effects and voice. So when you mute music you still hear other stuff. That's how I play games when I listen my "custom music".

I wouldn't expect all functionality, but you could 'grey out' excessive features. Given the amount of OS reserved resources, there's plenty in theory to allow the OS resources to run MP3s or let you visit a website, which would be most intuitively accessed through a known standard interface IMO, rather than spreading them around a game options.

Using reserved OS resources for web browsing and audio doesn't make much sense to me. Web browsing is not cheap and it should be allocated by the game if needed (as it is the case now).
Of course with hard pause and disk swaps most of the stuff would be free and trivial.

Audio decoding would be redundant as game is already doing similar stuff. I think it is wiser to unify those before decoding stage as opposed to simple software mixing.

Overall I think they should do useful stuff with reserved resources such as in-game voice/video chat, recording or even streaming game plays. People seem to like watching others play and with proper API, game streaming would be very efficient even for offline SP games. Of course I don't care much, but I see the communal value. A consistent spectator interface could even drive the game sales.

 

[patsu]

Are you replying to Shifty? If so he is referring to the fact that pretty much all games have separate volume control for music, effects and voice. So when you mute music you still hear other stuff. That's how I play games when I listen my "custom music".

Really ? I didn't know that. It should make it easier to do custom music then (if they started off as separate "tracks").

People seem to like watching others play and with proper API, game streaming would be very efficient even for offline SP games. Of course I don't care much, but I see the communal value. A consistent spectator interface could even drive the game sales.

This is my request #8 (or #9). I can't remember now.
I certainly hope that they have reserved enough OS resources to enable this.

 

[pipo]

And of course (on the 360) your music can be overruled if the dev wants to push his dramatic cut scene. Just like they can delay notifications (x signed in) in those cases.

Having said that, I seldom use my own music...