Talking to PS3 system software engineers about leading up to "1.80" and its future.

[patsu]

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=567411

Hopefully one or StephanS can value add.

EDIT: Lot's of tidbits !
Highlights --

In-Game Media Playback...

Q. Linking to games, the 360 has a feature to allow music in the HDD and network to be played back as game BGM.

K1. PS3 already has such function in the system software. It is up to the game developers to use the function. Same goes for pictures and videos.

RemotePlay for Games...

Q. Your intention for remote play is to make people play outside the home?

K1. Yes. There are SDKs out to allow game developers to integrate remote play into their games, so it is a matter of time before such games arrive. However, it is no[t] suitable for all types of games. There is a certain amount of latecy involved.

Q. The output has to be handled by SDKs? How about a simple frame buffer transfer with encoding to allow any games to be played this way?

K1. To be honest, that's how it works behind the SDK. The reason why SDK is needed is because the encoding requires processing power that may or may not be left over from the game. Therefore, we cannot guarantee that it will work for all games.

Q. The biggest problem with the use of remote play right now is that the PS3 has to remain turned on when you leave the house. Is there a solution to this?

K1. Wait and see (laugh).

...plus more loose (very loose !) notes on DLNA, SACD, Juke box, Samba, Blu-ray, Kutaragi, hi-level timeline, ...

 

[homy]

nice find, patsu

 

[expletive]

They talk about getting 88.2 and 176.4 khz output for SACD over HDMI yet i'm only seeing 48khz output. Anyone else seeing anything different?

Good find too, these guys seem to really understand and appreciate high-end A/V output.

 

[macabre]

They talk about getting 88.2 and 176.4 khz output for SACD over HDMI yet i'm only seeing 48khz output. Anyone else seeing anything different?

Good find too, these guys seem to really understand and appreciate high-end A/V output.

Have you tried to force output with the manual settings ? I can`t test it as I don`t have proper equipment audio-wise.

 

[expletive]

Have you tried to force output with the manual settings ? I can`t test it as I don`t have proper equipment audio-wise.

Yeah i've gone into to manual audio setup and enabled all the different options in there for PCM as my processor accepts them all.

 

[macabre]

Then it`s maybe a bug.
Besides audio: I heard that the upcoming 1.9 update will have an option to force 1080p/24hz output for TVs that don`t send accurate EDID information in Auto mode. I really hope that`s the case.

 

[Fu3lFr3nzy]

Q. Linking to games, the 360 has a feature to allow music in the HDD and network to be played back as game BGM.

K1. PS3 already has such function in the system software. It is up to the game developers to use the function. Same goes for pictures and videos.

I remember reading something about this before. It sucks, because from what i've also read somewhere in the past, some devs feel uncomfortable having the option for the user to change the intended bgm to their personal choice, so they choose not to support it(for the time being anyway)

(IMO) I think it should've been mandatory for every PS3 to use custom soundtrack ala X360, rather than give them the "freedom" to choose

 

[crazygambit]

I remember reading something about this before. It sucks, because from what i've also read somewhere in the past, some devs feel uncomfortable having the option for the user to change the intended bgm to their personal choice, so they choose not to support it(for the time being anyway)

(IMO) I think it should've been mandatory for every PS3 to use custom soundtrack ala X360, rather than give them the "freedom" to choose

I disagree. Not all games should support such a feature. Imagine a very emotional game with a full orchestrated score and someone listening to his hip hop instead. It would totally kill the intended mood the developers were going for (oh and the of course that guy would whine on message boards that the game was crap). For racing and sports games should be a no brainer though.

 

[Fu3lFr3nzy]

You do have a point there, though I still believe the consumer should atleast have some sort of option.

I certainly wouldnt mind playing a few of my favorite songs while playing resident evil to ease the tension

 

[inefficient]

Good read. Sounds like they've got a solid grasp on the HW now.

Really just about every feature I wanted is already in the FW now. I'm running out of things to wish for.

 

[crazygambit]

Good read. Sounds like they've got a solid grasp on the HW now.

Really just about every feature I wanted is already in the FW now. I'm running out of things to wish for.

What? No XMB access within games on your wish list? Seems to be what all the cool kids are asking for. I for one want support for more video formats, especially divx and mkv. And no my computer is crap so DLNA is out of the question. Plus I want higher flash support in the browser (and a better browser while their at it) as I actually use it sometimes.

 

[Tap In]

...
(IMO) I think it should've been mandatory for every PS3 to use custom soundtrack ala X360, rather than give them the "freedom" to choose

this feature (music payer) is actually built into the dashboard itself in 360. The custom music option being persistent during, before, after or even switching between games or downloads or whatever while retaining in game sounds and replacing only game music. All a dev has to do is hook into it without building any interface for it whatsoever. It is (allegedly) a relatively easy process and some games extend it to allow for custom sounds to be implemented by the user based on actions in game (what user song to be played during a hockey goal for example).

The PS3 current solution sounds more like Xbox 1 where the music was "available for devs to build in" but rarely used and only when devs built their own interface. Which IMO (the cost of time and resources) is what really keeps them from exploring it, not the excuse of giving the freedom of choice to the user.

 

[patsu]

The PS3 current solution sounds more like Xbox 1 where the music was "available for devs to build in" but rarely used and only when devs built their own interface. Which IMO (the cost of time and resources) is what really keeps them from exploring it, not the excuse of giving the freedom of choice to the user.

Does the dev absolutely need to build any interface though ? The music playback function is provided by XMB. As long as XMB is accessible in-game, there should be no need for a separate interface... unless the developers choose to do so (e.g., Resistance).

Today, a PS3 user can already play local/remote music, download in the background and view slideshow/web browse at the same time. One can hop between these active applications easily using the Playstation button. I believe the multitasking is done using the same mechanism (e.g., visually and UI-wise, just replace web browser with a game).

The integration is probably handled via some sort of uniform yield() function to give processor cycle to the background tasks. I don't know if this is difficult, but it doesn't have to be. Nonetheless, it will still require some developer attention because of the richness (e.g., what if the user brings up the in-game eStore or even video chat ?).

I doubt that Sony labor so long and hard just to come up with an Xbox 1-like mechanism. They are already exploring Playstation Home and clan integration that goes beyond existing offerings. What they seem to lack is focus (on a set of minimal/core functionality). Then again, the baseline is not clear perhaps because we are not in the loop.

 

[betan]

Custom persistent background music is pretty much useless for me. But I would like to see games with context sensitive custom music option. That, obviously has less value on non-repetitive story based single player games, but many others can really benefit from the concept.

For example Warhawk kicks in music when it thinks the situation is interesting, and while it is really appropriate for the mood, selection is pretty limited and I have more interesting stuff in my audio library. Same goes for Tap In's sports match example, as well as other countless relatively repetitive gameplays.

If Sony implements in-game XMB interface with that kind of audio selection, the only additional work developer needs to do will be registering audio events during installation (with defaults).

Anyway, I find PS3 OS and CELL's visible OS support confusing. A game cannot even kill itself but can easily lock the system. I hope it's a bug in OS code as it would be unacceptable to have a modern processor design without proper OS interrupt capabilities.

Where is my hibernate functionality?
Specifically with only 512 megabytes of ram, hard pause and resuming games with disk swaps should be trivial, especially for offline games. Wouldn't it be cool to avoid loading a game every time? Switching between them quickly? Currently PS button menu does not even pause games and I have no reason to believe that it can. Admittedly non-deterministic nature of multicore complicates things (though I expect laptop world already solved this problem), but CELL security architecture doesn't seem to allow much control over already running SPEs anyway.

For some reason, that's my biggest disappointment, especially if the real reason is content protection.

 

[nintenho]

What? No XMB access within games on your wish list? Seems to be what all the cool kids are asking for. I for one want support for more video formats, especially divx and mkv. And no my computer is crap so DLNA is out of the question. Plus I want higher flash support in the browser (and a better browser while their at it) as I actually use it sometimes.

that's probably to discourage pirating. I remember a lot of people hacked their xbox to use it for pirated movies. These ones can de-code hidef movies and that would not benefit sony's bluray or microsoft's marketplace.

 

[-tkf-]

We have codecs in place that play back data following proper standards, and functions to improve the quality of these picutres. We need more work on handling data that is outside the standard.

Who do i write at Sony to support this? I would really love to see a more robust handling of videofiles that are "broken" or of the standard.

 

[patsu]

blog.us.playstation.com ?

 

[Bohdy]

I'm a bit confused as to why they are making such a big deal of 1080i -> 1080p "upconversion". Usually it's no more than Inverse Telecine, which is a fairly simple process. Are they talking about high-quality deinterlacing of true interlaced material?

Who do i write at Sony to support this? I would really love to see a more robust handling of videofiles that are "broken" or of the standard.

I'd just love for them to expand the standard support. If the 360 can do High Profile H.264 then so should the PS3!

 

[patsu]

Custom persistent background music is pretty much useless for me. But I would like to see games with context sensitive custom music option. That, obviously has less value on non-repetitive story based single player games, but many others can really benefit from the concept.

...

If Sony implements in-game XMB interface with that kind of audio selection, the only additional work developer needs to do will be registering audio events during installation (with defaults).

Well, LittleBigPlanet would be a good start since a large part of its magic is user-generated content and activities. After that, they may be able to generalize (for developers) and abstract further (for end users). It may also encourage digital content sale as a bonus for Sony.

I don't know how difficult or high the priority for this is (Heck, may be it's doable today using existing APIs. It will likely involve a new UI for creating/selecting music highlights instead of music files). It seems that everyone has their cool ideas. BTW, you might want to drop blog.us.playstation.com a mail using their "contact us" page because these people are soliciting for top 10 user requests.

Anyway, I find PS3 OS and CELL's visible OS support confusing. A game cannot even kill itself but can easily lock the system. I hope it's a bug in OS code as it would be unacceptable to have a modern processor design without proper OS interrupt capabilities.

...probably because they use cooperative multitasking heavily in Game OS (and applications). I agree with you that the user experience can get unwieldy. They should clean up a few minor but important usability quirks. Once done, I can imagine a very pleasant XMB and XMB <-> Game integration user experience. This is item #3 on my top 10 user requests to them.

Where is my hibernate functionality?
Specifically with only 512 megabytes of ram, hard pause and resuming games with disk swaps should be trivial, especially for offline games. Wouldn't it be cool to avoid loading a game every time? Switching between them quickly? Currently PS button menu does not even pause games and I have no reason to believe that it can. Admittedly non-deterministic nature of multicore complicates things (though I expect laptop world already solved this problem), but CELL security architecture doesn't seem to allow much control over already running SPEs anyway.

For some reason, that's my biggest disappointment, especially if the real reason is content protection.

Ha ! I like this idea -- No need to wade through user agreements, screen navigation, etc.

 

[Tap In]

....As long as XMB is accessible in-game, there should be no need for a separate interface...

there's the rub.

Xbox1 interface was not available in game either and was how I came to the parallel with PS3 but if they implement the XMB across all functions ala' 360 dashboard then perhaps it will be easier for devs.

Still there is a mandate by MS that ALL games (including arcade) must have hooks built in for Custom soundtracks (which replace game music only, not the sound effects). Otherwise you could just turn on your stereo and mute your TV like we did in the 80's.