[SPOILERS] The Last of Us 2 open discussion [/SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Console Gaming' started by Daozang, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. Unknown Soldier

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    That video is weird, you only really have to kill Abby's dad but the rest of the staff you can let live. At least I did.

    Once you kill the dad you move to Ellie and the scene starts and the alarm goes off and the FF come and you pick her up and move to the door.
     
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  2. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    And the scars calling Lev 'Lily' was really easy to miss as it occurs at the start of combat. But there are other clues. Lev explains he shaved his head and I believe all of the male-identifying scars are all shaved.
     
  3. London Geezer

    London Geezer Shifty's daddy
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    I really liked how they handled this. First how Abby asks Lev about it and he just goes 'don't want to talk about it', until the topic resurfaces later on in the story. It wasn't made into a big melodrama, it was just something shit that happened, among all the other shit things that happen in the story, which is great.
     
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  4. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    INDEED! other games / anime would probably goes into overly long narration / monologue / convoluted explanation.
     
  5. Unknown Soldier

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    Yeah, I missed it completely. The hair thing also made sense to me as I thought only the men could have short hair and boys would have normal hair until they became men. At least it made sense to me. The Lily name I heard but I couldn't associate it to the reason why and so dismissed it.

    There's other things I missed in the game, like that Joel ends up a guitar maker. I am busy with a second play through and will try and take note of things I missed in the first playthrough. Man, what a game!
     
  6. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    what? i missed that! can you elaborate more?
     
  7. Unknown Soldier

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    When you walk through his house, you see a guitar on the workbench and guitars on the wall. He also give Ellie a guitar. It's not his guitar but one he made. He also crafted the animals in the room.

     
    #47 Unknown Soldier, Jun 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
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  8. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    thank you! i really missed that! Joels seems really has come to terms with his past and just living a normal live in that village.
     
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  9. Unknown Soldier

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    Yeah, there's also apparently a lot of flowers outside his house before you walk in. It seems people really liked this man in their community.
     
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  10. Unknown Soldier

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  11. Xbat

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    I would like to point out some of my problems with the story of The Last of Us.

    Firstly the biggest problem I have is how in the story it seems like it was a guaranteed fact that the Fireflies would be able to make a vaccine and a highly effective one at that.

    I'm not even sure you could create a vaccine for a fungus? I'm not a doctor so that's way beyond my understanding of what can be done.
    A cure or something you inject if bitten or infected that kills the spores makes more sense to me but even if they do how do they produce this vaccine or whatever in the quantities that would make any impact at a grand scale?

    I feel it's a cheap and unrealistic considering the much more subtle ways they deal with other parts of the story.

    Now to the smaller slight irritation how the hell does pregnant Mell get to the aquarium so easy after it was such a mission with Abby to get there:runaway:

    I would normally let things like that slide but in a story like The Last of Us it's the things like that that stick out.
     
  12. London Geezer

    London Geezer Shifty's daddy
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    This is an easy one. She fast-travelled and was probably playing off the PS5 SSD! :mrgreen:
     
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  13. steveOrino

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    I never got that from the story. There was never a guarantee and if you listen to the recordings going up to the operation room in the first game, the doctors talk about all the trials that weren't successful. Thats the whole drama between Elle and Joel. Joel didn't believe the fireflies knew what the hell they were doing and Elle was going to be another pointless death while Elle is upset a Joel because it was her decision. Whatever you hear from Abby's part of the story is from the fireflies perspective and only they were convinced they could get a cure no matter the cost. To me thats the whole point of part 2. Seeing things from different perspectives.
     
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  14. Xbat

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    I haven't played part 1 in awhile and it could be because of the things you speak of is why I also feel strongly about that the vaccine sounded like pie in the sky hope.

    So yeah maybe it isn't the story but other people's opinions I've read in forums over the years?
     
  15. London Geezer

    London Geezer Shifty's daddy
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    I remember the basis of the story being that the “infection” was not actually a virus, but some kind of spores that attach to the host and make them like they are in the game?

    So a vaccine in the strict sense of the word would never work.

    But again, this is not real life so *shrug*
     
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  16. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    That got me googling around

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAJegQIBRAC&usg=AOvVaw3x8tPVEA_jqd04si08hUZ4

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAKegQIBRAR&usg=AOvVaw3cbdYyosSkQhUpIA-ssuH1



    It seems there's no antifungal vaccine but it can be made, still not for normal human purposes tho.

    Btw I still think the doctor was a quack. I don't believe he can make a vaccine if he did operated / killed Ellie.

    Probably he'll make yet another excuse why he failed to make a vaccine. Explaining that he needs x y z.

    Probably Just like he did before he met ellie.

    I really can't wrap my head why he need to kill ellie. Ellie was a precious specimen! You can do way more experiments with her still alive. Including hereditary experiment
     
  17. London Geezer

    London Geezer Shifty's daddy
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    This was explained too. She had a "thing" in her brain, which was the infection that never developed and never turned Ellie into full Mushroom Zombie Ellie.

    So they would have had to remove this "thing" inside her brain to develop a "vaccine", a procedure which would have killed Ellie.

    At the time it kinda made sense, but now this should probably be added to the pile of Neil Druckmann's very weird and nonsensical ideas.
     
  18. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Cordyceps is a fungal infection which attacks the brain, hence all the weird neurological issues that strike first. All of the other crap is the fungal infection eating through the host.

    If you never saw it, David Attenborough shows what this stuff does to ants:

     
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  19. Noize

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    Just wanted to share my thoughts on the game after completing it. While this being a good game overall, I will address a few concern of mine.

    I was a bit disappointed that there was only one section that you play inside the “semi” open-world that lasted about 3 hours (Downtown Seattle) which was the highlight for me exploring them. I was under the impression according to a couple reviews that, that part was supposed to be used as a central hub similar to Rise of The Tomb Raider. That wasn’t the case at all. Once you past that part, you can’t even go back to it at all. I was surprised that the developer didn’t continue this path for the 2nd half of the game. I was hoping they would take The Lost Legacy level structure to another level. Almost everything was linear and typical Uncharted branching path that comes afterward.

    I thought for the most part the story and narrative was pretty good. I don’t mind all of the different twist that got some people all riled up. But I felt like some elements was totally forced unneccessarily making the story more unbelievable and cheap then it should be. I’m talking about the death of Joel and the way it was handled with the gore and stuff. Oh c’mon, we get the message and intention very clear once he was shot in the knee cap by a shotgun...that should be the end of it. After the whole golf club scene it was hard for me to connect from that Abby to the Abby that that we see in the 2nd half of the game. I was just rolling my eyes when we are forced to play fetch with the dog and the constant reminder of how sweet she was to them...oh, and how awkwardly nice she treats the two kids. Don't even get me started on the some of the sex scene. If they had tone down Abby’s character from both ends of the extreme just a bit, therefore making her more believable, then maybe I will have a lot more empathy for her.

    The gameplay is top notch and I can’t complain too much, especially with all of the tweaks and adjustments you can do, to play to your liking. The graphics while amazing in some respect, felt like the art direction faulter a bit during the 2nd half. Maybe it was rushed? This game really missed the mark to be an all time great with only the issues I’ve mention holding it back. Such a shame.
     
    #59 Noize, Jul 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
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  20. Scott_Arm

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    I'm obsessed with the reviews and the criticism of this game. I don't have a Playstation, and probably won't get one, so I really dove into watching the spoiler reviews and gameplay. I honestly cannot comprehend the criticisms of the story. Sure, there are parts that don't have the best acting, and Ellie escapes from captivity or near death situations too many times, but that's par for the course for games. The actual story, the structure and the intent is pretty good. I wouldn't say that the moral of the story, or the themes that are explored are particularly groundbreaking, but the narrative structure is very cool. You have the death of Joel which leads Ellie to pursue her revenge against.

    Then you switch to play as Abbie who's own life mirrors both Ellie and Joel's. Joel is the same in the human suffering he's caused to survive, and in having made an ethically ambiguous choice to kill people to save Eliie, setting off a chain of violence he didn't expect. Abbie is the same as Ellie in that she wanted revenge for the death of her family, and in exacting it she set Ellie off on the same path. So the structure of having Abbie as a clear cut villain, who suddenly gains the complexity of Joel and Ellie is interesting. The natural reaction of playing as Abbie is negative, but it's the old "walk a mile in another person's shoes" situation, and as you play her you'll hopefully gain empathy for her life and situation. Then when the game reverts back to Ellie attempting to kill Abbie you'll hopefully see the human cost of her actions and see everything in a different light.

    While I don't know if they succeeded in that, and it seems to have only worked to varying degrees for some people, I think the structure of the narrative and what they attempted to do in a video game is pretty bold and interesting. I think there's more to it thematically than "killing is wrong," but perhaps it needed some more complexity for it to overcome some of the negative feelings people get while playing. Maybe the payoff isn't enough for how cynical and gross the actions of the characters can be. I do think there was just a general unwillingness to accept something different from a portion of the fanbase. They wanted x, they got y and just couldn't get over it. A lot of the suggestions I see for what the story could have been just sound plain bad, but people are reaching for something that fits into easier territory. I think in the Last of Us 1, people could rationalize the violence because Joel is protecting a child in a cruel world. In a sense it doesn't feel ethically dubious as you're playing, and people can remain someone righteous in their actions until maybe the climax of the game.

    I do think I'd struggle with the length of the game. I think the length of the game plays against the overall message. How do you make such a long game not feel like drudgery? You make it fun. You have fun exhilarating combat and suspense. That conflicts with having a game that's supposed to make you feel bad about the violence, and empathize with the foes you've killed. When the body count is so high, I don't know how those feelings can be maintained. Feel bad about killing these people, but boy is it fun to kill them. Seems odd. I think they should have gone in a bolder direction where the game was mostly puzzles and had very little action killing. Maybe make most of the game stealth where you can't win by killing, but have particular places where you have to kill to get out of a situation or proceed, and those deaths carry a heavier weight. Like, make a AAA game where combat isn't the primary focus. That in itself would be revolutionary.

    Edit: I'd also like to point out the irony of all of the people complaining about the mundane themes of the "cycle of revenge" are also the people that are upset because they didn't get to kill Abby because they hated her for killing Joel sadistically.
     
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