Nope. You never own the game in any circumstance only the license to access it.
*spin-off* Always on/connected... stuff
- Thread starter Rockster
- Start date
Nope. You never own the game in any circumstance only the license to access it.
Copy protection is a form of DRM and a form of control. No one in the noDRM may have been complaining but there were plenty of consumer rights advocates who fought against making it unlawful to break Copy protection in order to make copies for personal use.
Making copies for personal use use to be a protected right in the US under fair use until the laws were changed in the 90s or early 2000s.
The only reason why content owners want to further strengthen DRM because copy protection doesn't work in a lot of circumstances like china or other regions where content is heavily pirated.
Then what will happen if someone who hasn't opt to go with terms of agreement take your game disc? Should the disc work on his/her console or not? How Microsoft should know that which disc is used for which specific license agreement (DRM or DRM-free) when some people prefer to play offline? Even some people may sell their digital licenses without disc and it will cause additional problems.
This is not as easy as you think.
I said in my last post that there shouldn't be any other solution, but now it seems that I found an entirely physical method to let discs have digital or physical license. If you opt to physical license you should use the disc and if you opt to digital license the disc will be unusable on any other platform. Also you can have different license for each disc.
I'm not entirely sure about my solution right now but it may work at the end.
I already explained how the system works...
1. If you don't opt in then you use the disc just like you did for the last 3 friggen decades except you will need to activate the game online once. No ongoing online authentication, you pop the disc in every time you want to play the game even if it's installed on the HDD.
2. If you opt in then you don't need the disc because it's already installed on the HDD and goes online to authenticate. Each disc comes with it's own activation key and once it's activated nobody else can use that disc unless you deactivate it. As said disc comes with a unique key code when you purchase the game just like each Windows OS disc comes with a key. Each game needs to be activated once online upon first play regardless if you play from the disc or install it. Once it's activated you could play it offline for as long as you want but if someone goes online and uses that same activation key it won't work unless you (the person with the physical disc) go online to deactivate the key. Once you deactivate the key on your console the game disc will not work on your console and is free to be activated on another console. Also if my friend has the physical disc I won't be able to play the game from my HDD unless I activate it using his disc and also only if he has deactivated the game from his console.
So to summarize.
1. Activation/Deactivation requires the physical disc
2. Every game disc comes with its unique Activation key
3. Every game disc requires one initial online Activation before play
4. Only one unique Activation key is allowed to be active at any given time
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First I know and probably he knows too; I decided to answer because I still understood what he meant.
Second the question was about whether or not limited "freedom of use" actually means to have no ownership whatsoever.
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This will work but if everybody need to activate/deactivate his/her game with an internet connection then the opt in/out would be meaningless. If I activate my disc then no one else can play with my disc until I deactivate it, so I (and everyone else) should be able to play without disc by default. But it seems to be better than MS initial method (less restrictions).
Dude this is not rocket science!!!
Opting in/out has nothing to do with the one time activation! Opting in is only for people who buy a physical disc but do not want to deal with the hassle of having to put the disc in the console every friggin time they play! That is the ONLY purpose of opting in....ie the game needs to connect to the internet every single time you play the INSTALLED version of the game therefore you have to opt in to continuous authentication every time you play. This is optional and the purpose is convenience (no need to insert disc) every time you play the game.
As for activation/deactivation...you only need to deactivate your game for two reasons:
1. You want to let someone borrow the disc so they could play
2. You sell the game to somebody
There is no other reason to deactivate the game unless you have nothing better to do and get a kick out of activating/deactivating your game....
Yes is there a problem with that? Last time I checked a single Xbox 360/PS3 game disc cannot be played on two consoles at the same time regardless if you installed the game on the HDD or not....
What????
The only people who get to play without the disc by default is the people who purchase the digitally downloaded version...just like they do today....
The whole thing works just like car ownership. If you have the keys to the car you can drive it, if you don't you can't regardless if you're in possession of the car. If you sell the car you give the keys and the car to the new owner...so you can't drive it anymore. Same thing if you let someone borrow your car and keys...
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I can have the keys but not own the car and and keys are not necessary to start a car engine and thus drive a the car.
Ownership at is NOT tied/limited/defined to/by what we can physically keep/access/use, at least not in our society nor in our legal system.
Now IMO mosen is not speaking nonsense.
We could very much be give the choice to play the game form the HDD using internet to authenticate out copy instead of the discs.
P.S:
I personally don't think that analogies between tangible and intangible goods can in any way be of help.
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In this case the analogy is spot on. Keys are tied to cars. Each disc has it's own unique key. Just because you have A key doesn't mean you could use it for any copy of the game or car...
The topic I'm talking about has nothing to do "ownership"...it's analogous to permission to use.
The topic I'm talking about has nothing to do "ownership"...it's analogous to permission to use.
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Dude this is not rocket science!!!
Opting in/out has nothing to do with the one time activation! Opting in is only for people who buy a physical disc but do not want to deal with the hassle of having to put the disc in the console every friggin time they play! That is the ONLY purpose of opting in....ie the game needs to connect to the internet every single time you play the INSTALLED version of the game therefore you have to opt in to continuous authentication every time you play. This is optional and the purpose is convenience (no need to insert disc) every time you play the game.
When you activate a disc for your profile/console you are the owner of the game license (digital license) so you can play the game without putting the disc on the console (just like digital version of the game). You just need to install the disc or download the game to play it. Right now I can install a game on my console (from a disc) and buy a digital license to use it without disc (that may seems stupid, but actually that digital license works as activation key in this example) and I can play my digital games without any connection to the internet. But continuous authentication may be critical for other features like family sharing or loaning physical games, etc.
I look at activation key as a digital license (they are the same to me) and the disc will be useless without activation key.
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You get me wrong. I mean a disc that is activated on other console won't work on your console, until the previous owner of the disc deactivate it and let you use the activation key. right?
What????
The only people who get to play without the disc by default is the people who purchase the digitally downloaded version...just like they do today....
Correct me if I'm wrong but as I said before a activation key is just like a digital license to me. So those people who bought the disc (and activation key) don't need to put the disc on their console after activation by default.
Ok seems you're talking about something else. In your scenario you already have the disc!...so you still need to opt in/out. Why would you buy a key when you already have the key that comes with the disc???
The disc is not free! Why would you want to spend twice as much to have TWO keys??? Nobody is mailing you a free disc with your purchase of an online activation key for your game console. No store does that now with digital download of windows. You either buy the digital download which includes the key or buy a key and then download the software at a later time. There is no mailing out the disc. That's just nonsense and defeats the purpose of shopping around stores that have deals on physical discs only...ie going for a deal that saves you 50% off but then going online to buy a key just so you don't have to swap discs?
The disc is not free! Why would you want to spend twice as much to have TWO keys??? Nobody is mailing you a free disc with your purchase of an online activation key for your game console. No store does that now with digital download of windows. You either buy the digital download which includes the key or buy a key and then download the software at a later time. There is no mailing out the disc. That's just nonsense and defeats the purpose of shopping around stores that have deals on physical discs only...ie going for a deal that saves you 50% off but then going online to buy a key just so you don't have to swap discs?
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^^^
I suppose the key would not come with the disc or it could only redeemable online once like online pass.
Pretty much the disc would just be a medium to delver the content but nothing more.
Plastic shell + disc+ cover could cost, let's say, $5 and the activation key would cost $45.
I suppose the key would not come with the disc or it could only redeemable online once like online pass.
Pretty much the disc would just be a medium to delver the content but nothing more.
Plastic shell + disc+ cover could cost, let's say, $5 and the activation key would cost $45.
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But you don't have any ownership whatsoever. You may own the license but the license ultimately dictates how you may use the content in question. And the license may also dictates what control you have over the license itself.
"Owning a game" is more analogous to holding a movie ticket than it is to "owning" the actual film reel.
Whatever "freedom of use" you have is ultimately influenced by market acceptance because content owners are trying to extract profit from the content they own. Nevertheless, content owners are free to dictate the terms of access of how and when you use their content.
D
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Nobody is mailing discs out for free...are you proposing they start doing that? Building a completely new distribution method? Doesn't make any sense not to mention it doesn't satisfy the two points I made earlier.
1. You can't sell the game
2. You can't let your friend borrow the game
Right now there's already online downloads that are linked to your account. These can't be sold nor can they be borrowed. Are you suggesting MS start doing that? Really?
Borrowing universal keys is much more different than borrowing discs that are linked with keys. So how do you restrict the proliferation of keys being passed online from one stranger to another? It's almost like piracy if you go that route.
The EULA says what you can do or do not.
When we buy a game we agree with the therms and conditions and so are bound to comply.
Now what is the problem with that?
@RudeCurve
Shipment and manufacturing cost are always included in the final price.
Now we could very well sell the disc but it would get us little because without activation key the disc is just good to install the game.
We could also be allowed to give the activation key/code to anyone with an existing PSN/Xbox account but it would mean that you have to get it back or buy another one to play the game again.
The "transfer" between accounts would have to be done via the online store/marketplace so the publishers of the game would always be able to track individual keys and would know that a key is in possession of a single person/users/account.
Of course a publishers could prefer to have non-transferable "keys" but it most likely will end like MS.
Shipment and manufacturing cost are always included in the final price.
Now we could very well sell the disc but it would get us little because without activation key the disc is just good to install the game.
We could also be allowed to give the activation key/code to anyone with an existing PSN/Xbox account but it would mean that you have to get it back or buy another one to play the game again.
The "transfer" between accounts would have to be done via the online store/marketplace so the publishers of the game would always be able to track individual keys and would know that a key is in possession of a single person/users/account.
Of course a publishers could prefer to have non-transferable "keys" but it most likely will end like MS.
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The eula is worthless if it isn't supported by the laws of the country. Old discussion.