*spawned - The gametrailers comparison video legitimacy discussion

[rekator]

Very strange that there has been no "uproar" on Beyond3d about the lies spread in numerous GTA4 reviews, especially given that its such a high impact title. But, since people on this forum seem believe in conspiracy theories, I'd love to hear what you think about that one.

For example, numerous online reviews listed the PS3 version as having a better framerate, when its clearly obvious to anyone with one eye or greater than the 360's is better. Do you guys think all these online magazines that participated in spreading this false information were all paid by Sony? Or, do you think all those magazines just have a natural Sony bias? How do you think that conspiracy was handled to purposely deflate the 360 version with incorrect info on such a large scale? Were they all just more clever than GT to not get caught? Do you still have faith in all these online magazine when so many displayed this PS3 bias, or shame on all of them?

May be we have to made a site/magazine who review the reviewers!

For the GTA 4 story, I have the feeling that is very important ( for R* and also Sony) to not deceive the Playstation audience (last gen is a big audience) so we got all this PR about the PS3 version is more this and that and maybe also this… but yes it's PR…

For the Gametrailer story, well for me the first thing they need to learn to made a well compress video… in first before made these comparaisons videos!

 

[Jesus2006]

May be we have to made a site/magazine who review the reviewers!

For the GTA 4 story, I have the feeling that is very important ( for R* and also Sony) to not deceive the Playstation audience (last gen is a big audience) so we got all this PR about the PS3 version is more this and that and maybe also this… but yes it's PR…

For the Gametrailer story, well for me the first thing they need to learn to made a well compress video… in first before made these comparaisons videos!

The point is, it's not at all everything PR about those GTA4 reviews. There's still alot of truth in those reviews, even if they didn't count pixels and saw the res is lower. Their subjective perception lead them to those reviews as things like loading times, more detailed textures (360 dithering problem), less pop-in and the difference in lighting are the first things you notice when doing side-by-side reviews (without counting pixels like we did here in this forum - afterwards).

Sorry for being slightly OT here but i think some might distract a little bit from the topic with such comparisons (or trying to justify something here).

 

[Nesh]

Bias is impossible to avoid.

GameTrailers is an American site thats primary audience is English-speaking, presumably American viewers. The 360 is a lot more popular than the PS3 in this market.

That said, mistakes also happen. But claiming because GT primarily uses the 360 boxart for multiplayer games is likely because most of the people viewing the game profile, in GT's target market, have 360s.

There's absolutely no connection between that and making the claim that GameTrailers intentionally mislabeled screenshots to make the PS3 sell worse. GameTrailers doesn't care, they just want viewers. It's far more likely the person making the comparison was under deadline pressure (traffic picks up dramatically around launch of the game, pressure is on to get it done then) and made an honest mistake.

So you agree that GT is biased due to being an American site and having a misconception or biased perception of what defines popularity.

I ve already answered to your post in the post you just replied to.

Despite that I will repeat myself and say once again that the box art is irrelevant to existing owners, it makes no difference to existing owners, thus your argument does not hold. If the 360 is more popular it doesnt need a box art to communicate that. If it is more popular then the consumer should know by himself. No need for someone else to tell them that. At the end the only thing it does is reduce market presence of the other competing product needlessly. It is false to use box arts as if one is more popular than the other by a longshot (see the example of Resi 5 box art again). It is like setting a rule that 360 is more popular no matter what and that its competing product which is extremely strong and has the chance to overtake or reach a point where difference in sales is irrelevant should be treated as an unpopular product. edit: not to mention that both consoles sell almost around as much currently


As for your last paragraph, it is not about doing things intentionally as in "a conspiracy". It is still about being biased.

 

[Rangers]

Very strange that there has been no "uproar" on Beyond3d about the lies spread in numerous GTA4 reviews, especially given that its such a high impact title. But, since people on this forum seem believe in conspiracy theories, I'd love to hear what you think about that one.

For example, numerous online reviews listed the PS3 version as having a better framerate, when its clearly obvious to anyone with one eye or greater than the 360's is better. Do you guys think all these online magazines that participated in spreading this false information were all paid by Sony? Or, do you think all those magazines just have a natural Sony bias? How do you think that conspiracy was handled to purposely deflate the 360 version with incorrect info on such a large scale? Were they all just more clever than GT to not get caught? Do you still have faith in all these online magazine when so many displayed this PS3 bias, or shame on all of them?

I was going to note this as well. Is it a conspiracy when IGN made these comments about the PS3 version, now proven to be objectively inferior in the metrics of framerate, AA, and render resolution,

For those wanting to know which version looks better, the edge goes to the PS3

And

but the PS3 has better anti-aliasing making it look a little cleaner.

These are blatantly false statements (the latter inarguably) in the review of the biggest game of the year, and nobody seemed to even notice? Is that a anti-360 conspiracy?

 

[Neb]

Very strange that there has been no "uproar" on Beyond3d about the lies spread in numerous GTA4 reviews, especially given that its such a high impact title. But, since people on this forum seem believe in conspiracy theories, I'd love to hear what you think about that one.

For example, numerous online reviews listed the PS3 version as having a better framerate, when its clearly obvious to anyone with one eye or greater than the 360's is better.Do you guys think all these online magazines that participated in spreading this false information were all paid by Sony? Or, do you think all those magazines just have a natural Sony bias? How do you think that conspiracy was handled to purposely deflate the 360 version with incorrect info on such a large scale? Were they all just more clever than GT to not get caught? Do you still have faith in all these online magazine when so many displayed this PS3 bias, or shame on all of them?

Excellent point. In true most things where the reverse yet barely any bashed the media spreading it. Though what GT has doen is no better in anyway (if intentional) and as sad as all the hype, false information and bias spreaders/reviewers.

 

[assen]

Or, do you think all those magazines just have a natural Sony bias?

This.

Being the industry leader for 10 years helps in many ways, one of which is raising an entire generation of fanboys.

This GTA4 "versions are equal" meme is a repetition of the COD4 situation of 6 months ago. I hope grandmaster finds time to do a COD4 framerate test suite.

 

[DJ12]

I was going to note this as well. Is it a conspiracy when IGN made these comments about the PS3 version, now proven to be objectively inferior in the metrics of framerate, AA, and render resolution,


And


These are blatantly false statements (the latter inarguably) in the review of the biggest game of the year, and nobody seemed to even notice? Is that a anti-360 conspiracy?

How does knowing something is less technically impressive make it look worse?

The two games have a different look, it's not hard to prefer one of the other it's all down to your preference.

 

[patsu]

Yap, it's easy for someone who noted minor screen tears and sligtly more pop-ins to conclude that the PS3 version is superior too... if they are not bothered by the slightly lower framerate. As people noted, the blur filter was not applied at night, and the screen has no artifacts other than the lack of AA. If they are not using LCD TV, the aliasing may be less noticeable.

On top of that, add R* exec's comments and lack of time and tools to verify, people on B3D can jump to to the same conclusion too.

 

[betan]

Edit: I urge everyone who is participating in this discussion to actually view the video at hand.

People keep ignoring that point, makes it hard to argue an honest mistake. Either fanboy bias, or stupidity.

These are blatantly false statements (the latter inarguably)

The heavier edge blur hides the aliasing for stills. It's not really a mystery.
Is this really bias from the guy who have been continuously reducing PS3 version's score for multiplatform games?

And whoever is saying there has been a Sony bias in the media for the last 1.5 years, wasn't really following media. Don't kid yourself, people may have bought into Sony marketing for technical superiority, but that is not what bias means.

 

[warb]

This really is nonsense.

Were the seemingly bigger and better explosions on the PS3 side of their GTAIV comparison evidence of a bias towards PS3?

 

[assen]

The two games have a different look, it's not hard to prefer one of the other it's all down to your preference.

Okay, next conspiracy question: why is the color balance of the two versions different? I understand why the 360 version has superior resolution, I may understand how the dithering might possibly be an artistic choice which is impossible to do on the PS3 (although I find it a most strange artistic choice) - but I don't see how for technical reasons one of the versions would have some of its postprocessing sliders tweaked just so. And in a no conspiracy world, differences between versions should only exist for technical reasons, right?

It is part of the human nature to subconsciously grasp at straws when one wants to believe something; is this yellowish tint the straw graciously provided by Rockstar for those who want to believe that the PS3 version is superior?

 

[patsu]

I can only ask, do you own an XBOX 360, do you have any intention of owning one, how many of your friends own multiple consoles? I ask because many of the posters who seem to be complaining only own a PS3. If you only own one platform holders brand why does it matter to you at all what is said about a given title on the other platform? Who gives a damn, even if everyone were to agree that a title were to play, look, "feel" better on the other platform, it shouldn't matter to you because you would only purchase the one for which you were equipped to play.

... it's because of GT's history.

Is this just a rallying cry for journalistic integrity? One of the most popular podcasts and websites is routinely wrong when speaking about an industry that they cover and is not singled out, 1up, maybe they are just cooler than gametrailers...

Yeah, people complained about them last year. We had a similar thread back then. Since that time, 1UP + EGM's parent company has filed for bankrupty protection, Gamespot suffered a heavy PR damage, and now GT is going through a small one.

At the end of the day, I chalk this one up to the same nonsense that gamers are always going on about like the conspiracy theories about localization and that it can't possibly take "that long".

The "conspiracy theorists" exist on both sides.

 

[DJ12]

Okay, next conspiracy question: why is the color balance of the two versions different? I understand why the 360 version has superior resolution, I may understand how the dithering might possibly be an artistic choice which is impossible to do on the PS3 (although I find it a most strange artistic choice) - but I don't see how for technical reasons one of the versions would have some of its postprocessing sliders tweaked just so. And in a no conspiracy world, differences between versions should only exist for technical reasons, right?

It is part of the human nature to subconsciously grasp at straws when one wants to believe something; is this yellowish tint the straw graciously provided by Rockstar for those who want to believe that the PS3 version is superior?

CELL can and does do post processing effects, so yes it is possible that the PS3 can do it and the 360 cannot.

Anyway, you quote me but then make no relevant comment what so ever.

So I ask again, since when did a game being technically superior on paper make it look better?

You throw the term fanboy around a lot, but to be honest I think it applies to you as much as anyone else.

 

[assen]

CELL can and does do post processing effects, so yes it is possible that the PS3 can do it and the 360 cannot.

I think the differences between the two GTAIV versions would be drastic if they did postprocessing on the CPU in any meaningful (read: impossible to do on 360) way.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

CELL can and does do post processing effects, so yes it is possible that the PS3 can do it and the 360 cannot..

Oh please. That more yellowish tint could be done on any cpu.

Have you seen GTA4 on the X360?

I have, it looks better than my PS3 copy.

I suggest someone make a conspiracy theory as to why many sites called out the PS3 version as the best one, even thought the PS3 version is a blurry mess running at a worse framerate than the X360.

 

[Nesh]

.....

I am planning to own a 360 soon once I have the cash. I purchased a 60GB PS3 in November when I had the chance since they were going to stop its production. I helped two of my friends decide on their console purchase. That console happened to be a 360 and I play occasionally at one of my friend's house.

The question is why does it matter to you if some people question GT's credibility which was something being questioned for more than a year.

 

[Nesh]

So you do not own a 360, your two friends only own a 360. They are obviously going to purchase the 360 version, you are obviously going to purchase the PS3 version, unless the three of you have fragile egos and point at each other about who has the "superior version", it still should not matter.

I question ALL of gaming medias credibility and their pull which is why I am one of the few in/from the industry that believe their "reviews" carry little sell-through weight, but please, do continue on your quest for social video game justice.

I dont even know what you just wrote even mean, or the purpose of it and how come you wrote all that gibberish as if I have insulted something important for you and there is some sort of philosophy going on that I should take seriously since [sarcasm]I have nothing better to spend my life on[/sarcasm]

What was that again? socia vid..game.just...wow

Please elaborate

 

[Mr Deap]

Okay, next conspiracy question: why is the color balance of the two versions different? I understand why the 360 version has superior resolution, I may understand how the dithering might possibly be an artistic choice which is impossible to do on the PS3 (although I find it a most strange artistic choice) - but I don't see how for technical reasons one of the versions would have some of its postprocessing sliders tweaked just so. And in a no conspiracy world, differences between versions should only exist for technical reasons, right?

It is part of the human nature to subconsciously grasp at straws when one wants to believe something; is this yellowish tint the straw graciously provided by Rockstar for those who want to believe that the PS3 version is superior?

That's because the color palette of the PS3 is the real one which is calibrated, while the XBOX 360 color palette is modified which kind of look cooler to many people eyes under the standard television color palette.


Review this thread: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46549

 

[Xalion]

That's because the color palette of the PS3 is the real one which is calibrated, while the XBOX 360 color palette is modified which kind of look cooler to many people eyes under the standard television color palette.


Review this thread: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46549

The problem is that the video is running on the PS3 in both segments under discussion here.

In other words, if GameTrailers stands by their guns and do not change any of the default settings, why is it that the same segment in the PS3 shown twice looks different one time from the other? The same console is running both segments, so it can't be the XBox 360s modified color palette causing the problem.

 

[Mize]

Why is this a x360 vs ps3 flame war? I have both (all three if you count Wii) and it seem the real important question is whether a source for information on the internet is incompetent or biased - NOT whether one console is subjectively and unresolvably "better" than the other, right?

So can we put the thread back on track? Can we get a clarification from GameTrailers?