"Sony walking a tightrope" another reason why no playable at tgs

[TrungGap]

Yes I own a PS2. It's the only console this gen I bought. And no I didn't skip out on any PS2 purchases to save for the PS3. I'm just going to cut my PS3 money out of my girl's fund for stuff like eating out and going to the movies. You know saying things to her like, "sorry baby can't go to Red Lobster tonight gotta get that PS3."

Man, you're lucky...As for me, I'm saving for the x360, and it's cutting into my beer budget. If it cuts deeper than 25%, I'm going to have to reconsider getting a x360. The way I figured, with 25% more beer, I will see more special effects than x360 can render.

Back on subject, I'm not sure how much thoughts the author put into this article. Consider this...PS3 will have 100% backward compatibility. So buy a PS2 for the current PS2, will still be playable on the PS3. So it will have zero impact on titles that scheduled to release (soon) on PS2 only. Now for titles that announced for PS3, who the hell knows when it's going to be available, so franchise fans will still buy the PS2 version so they can play it now...

The only impact is sale of new PS2 system. People will put off buying a new PS2, but Sony already milked PS2 already. With it's installed base, royalty from the software is already excellence, don't need to expand their market share.

What I find unfortunately, is for dev studio releasing games on current gen and next gen with the same content. Now of course, they're stuck in the situation because of the release date of the x360. I think x360 release date caught everybody by surprise (including Sony).

Seriously, I doublt anybody will put off buying a PS2 game, just because they're waiting (or saving) for the PS3. So why nothing was playable at TGS? Remember Sony is different than MS. MS is a software company, they're used to releasing alpha/beta/rtm software. They like see how the people react to the WIP software. Their reasoning is to create awareness, gage feedback, using the games (software) to create excitement as oppose using the console to create excitement. Hence, you see the force on Live and WIP games.

 

[scooby_dooby]

First impressions are everything.

In video games first impression mean nothing.

That's why Halo went on to be a huge hit, and why PD0 and Kameo will probably do the same, because they are QUALITY games and that's what's important.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Sony is walkng a tightrope, but they're doing a damn good job of it.

When you think about it, what's the point of Sony hyping the PS3 right now anyways? X360 will sell-out it's launch quantities anyways, that's pretty much a given. So, they have nothing to gain really by trying to steal hype from the X360.

When the initial hype dies down, heading into 2006, after the PS2 and PSP holiday shoppers are all done, then they will try and battle the X360.

The only potential pitfall I see, is allowing X360 to become a runaway success while they hold back on the PS3 related news.

 

[SubD]

The only impact is sale of new PS2 system. People will put off buying a new PS2, but Sony already milked PS2 already. With it's installed base, royalty from the software is already excellence, don't need to expand their market share.

The PS2 is selling at a faster rate than the first Playstation and it hasn't even dropped to 99 dollars yet. There are probably another 10 to 20 million PS2s yet to be sold over the next couple of years. Sony is in no way done with the PS2.

 

[seismologist]

I've always thought this was partially the reason. The PS2 still has much life in it. There's still one more Final Fantasy game and rumored God of War sequel that wont even be out until 2006.

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

Yes I own a PS2. It's the only console this gen I bought. And no I didn't skip out on any PS2 purchases to save for the PS3. I'm just going to cut my PS3 money out of my girl's fund for stuff like eating out and going to the movies. You know saying things to her like, "sorry baby can't go to Red Lobster tonight gotta get that PS3."

So you can get away with that...

*jealous*

 

[scooby_dooby]

I've always thought this was partially the reason. The PS2 still has much life in it. There's still one more Final Fantasy game and rumored God of War sequel that wont even be out until 2006.

The other reason is that if Sony shows works in progress people would see they are not any more impressive than the X360 stuff, and all of Sony's XBOX 1.5 hype would vanish into smoke.

In order to maintain this "more power" myth they've created they are forced not to show anything that doesn't meet the expectations they raised at E3. Eventually though, they will have to dissapoint people.

 

[seismologist]

The other reason is that if Sony shows works in progress people would see they are not any more impressive than the X360 stuff, and all of Sony's XBOX 1.5 hype would vanish into smoke.

In order to maintain this "more power" myth they've created they are forced not to show anything that doesn't meet the expectations they raised at E3. Eventually though, they will have to dissapoint people.

That's what the ******s tend to argue (not saying that you're one) but I dont think this is Sony's biggest concern right now. It's not all about graphics. In the end even if the graphics end up being WORSE than the 360, people are going to buy the PS3 anyway for it's game lineup.

PS2 is their bread and butter they dont want to rock the boat too much if not necessary.

Like a few people mentioned. As soon as next gen games start to dominate the media, current gen game sales will take a hit. I know it wont be long before I'm not willing to pay full price for a game with PS2 graphics. I'll just wait for PS3. Showing too much too early is bad for sales, and bad for the industry as a whole.

 

[blakjedi]

No I do understand business. And I do know that more people know that PS3 is coming than know the real name of xbox2.

I do know that casuals read the internet for their gaming news and games and systems are talked about in the usa today, newsweek, msnbc and other sights. I do know that casuals know and heard that MGS 4 is "phat" and could care less about what we say at b3d.

I know that middle schoolers I mentor, some without computers at home, know what ps3 is, that they are "gonna buy it when it comes out." What that has to do ps2 sales is a mystery to me.

If I dont have the choice to buy it, it cant cut into the sales. 75% of retail for console will occur between thanksgiving and christmas 06... @ $400 a pop, there is no impulse buy there.

The hardcore will buy when they buy so ... again its bad logic...

For being "underground" Sony did a pretty terrible job... on purpose...

 

[MechanizedDeath]

The other reason is that if Sony shows works in progress people would see they are not any more impressive than the X360 stuff, and all of Sony's XBOX 1.5 hype would vanish into smoke.

In order to maintain this "more power" myth they've created they are forced not to show anything that doesn't meet the expectations they raised at E3. Eventually though, they will have to dissapoint people.

If the illusion is to vanish, it will vanish whether they show works in progress or not. This is specious reasoning b/c it assumes that the final product will be miraculously better than the X% complete version.

Showing a trailer of a version of the final target for the game is the same as showing it incomplete. The graphics aren't left until final, they are usually in place at some earlier point in development. Take MGS for example. The graphics are already there, and the game is far from complete. Heavenly Sword was shown as clips from gameplay, and it still had a ways to go from completion.

Showing incomplete games still didn't seem to matter this times around. Warhawk wasn't particularly impressive IMO. Vision GT uses GT4 assets ffs. For the PS2, they showed RR5 while early, TTT while early, and GT2000 was a game that used GT2 assets for the longest time. These titles alone are enough to carry the system, regardless of how they look, so I think it refutes the argument that they were afraid of some graphical parity, if there's one to be had. There's been enough shown now that's either greatly superior, or completely underwhelming that I think graphics prowess means little at this point. PEACE.

 

[mckmas8808]

I know that middle schoolers I mentor, some without computers at home, know what ps3 is, that they are "gonna buy it when it comes out." What that has to do ps2 sales is a mystery to me.

Read the thread blakjedi. It's been explained like 10 times. You don't show your next hand when nothing is there to sell. Why advertist something when it's not even gonna be avaivalble? I don't even think Sony knows when they will release the PS3 in each territory. All they know now is it will be released somewhere next Spring.

On the other hand they have the PS2 and PSP to push so why not spend more time on that?

 

[bRoNx]

I believe SONY showed the PS3 at E3 because it had to be there when X360 was shown. And it was a rush job, but it achieved what it set out to do...impress. Now, not everyone that saw those reels at E3 is on some internet forum debating it's legitimacy (real time vs. whatever!). Most people would've walked away from it thinking "Sh*t, that was f**k'n crazy!"...and BANG! Mission accomplished. They've planted the PS3 seed in people's minds. They couldn't have done this if they A) let X360 have E3 all to itself and B) showed off some wack WIP games.

Fastforward to September, TGS, 3 months out from the holiday season. They hardly showed any PS3 media...and it's understandable. Why would anyone in their right mind promote something they can't sell, and put a perfectly fine cash cow on the back-burner? Admit it, if the PS3 had playable games, it would've made it that much harder for PSP & PS2 softwares to get the media coverage they desperately need heading into the holiday season -- and unnecessarily, IMHO. Like some people have pointed out already, there's really nothing SONY can do to stop the sales of the X360 this holiday period...nothing, nada, zilc...hold on, they can always launch the PS3 in Dec......I know, not gonna happen! But as I was saying, bombarding the public with PS3 media right now will do them more harm than good. Yes, the PS2 games on sale this holiday will be playable on the PS3, but that's something they can strongly promote in Feb...once everyone's done spending!

Look at it this way: X360 will not be able to keep up with demand early on. I'm pretty certain that there's gonna be a shortage of X360's during the holiday, certainly heading into early 2006 (world wide launch). This is where SONY can step in at their Feb. event, and go PS3 crazy! AND, it won't harm their bottom line, because their cash cow (read: PS2) would, by now, be much healthier having gone through the holiday season without it's successor stealing that precious "mindshare". This is when they can promote the PS3, show everything & anything in order to create a little doubt for those waiting to get a X360, or even the 'fence-sitters' who haven't quite decided on what they want yet.

Well, that's my logic anyways...I hope atleast half of it made some sense!

 

[overclocked]

Just hopping in here to say that the ONLY games that interests me are CoD2 and to a certain degree Quake4. But those games will i play om my computer, it seems that Q4 will come in a matter of weeks.

Another discussed thing in this thread is who will buy PS2 software, actully the titles i most look forward to are 3-4 titles to the PS2. That combined with the titles i mentioned(CoD2,Q4) does this gen that im not are going to be an early adapter as last gen with all three consoles.

I dont think i will buy the PS3 at the launch either if there no new titles being shown that interests me.

 

[ims]

Uh, ok. *shakes head* I refuse to get into a -point-by-point semantic debate with somone who obviously has an agenda and obviously is trying his hardest to push a specific line of thinking on the rest of us.

/\ /\ Oh lord I wept with laughter when I read this. Hi pot....meet kettle

 

[Thegameman]

Correct but who says this will be the norm in the future? MS *must* shorten the life of Xbox, to compete "on an even scale" against Sony on next gen. Xbox came 18 months after, MS cannot afford to come 18 months after PS3, the same thing would happen again. Now MS has the chance to closen the gape considerably to Sony marketshare-wise..

So, Xbox lifespan was shortened so that 360 could live longer.. is that easy..

The fact that PS2 remain king has nothing to do with time frame,from the release of the xbox nov 2001 to now the PS2 has badly out sell the xbox 70 million to 22 million that is not even close.


People don't see both console equal for them the PS2 is just better,even now more people continue to buy more PS2 in US. than Xbox and Gamecube combined every month,even that the Xbox has the same price as the PS2 and comes build in with and HDD,and even that the Gamecube is cheaper,all this say very clear that people still see the PS2 as a superior gaming machine than the xbox,perception will keep the console seling,even that the xbox is more powerful people just don't care.


The only thing i can spot here, games on PS2 there are alot more than on xbox or brand loyalty,are the only 2 reasons why the xbox doesn't sell better than the PS2.

 

[Mordecaii]

Face it, the PS2 hardware earns Sony a good chunk of money, why would they want to overpromote the PS3 now when that could end up causing Sony to lose PS2 hardware sales?

P.S. I know this is off subject, but does anyone know if Sony is going to drop the price of the PS2 to $99 anytime soon? I'd like to pick one up if I can get it at that price since I miss playing my FF games after I sold my old PS2 to buy new computer parts. Also I want to be able to play FF12 the day it comes out! (Although if it comes out after PS3 or the PS3 comes out before the price drop then I'll just buy it hehe)

 

[Thegameman]

Face it, the PS2 hardware earns Sony a good chunk of money, why would they want to overpromote the PS3 now when that could end up causing Sony to lose PS2 hardware sales?

P.S. I know this is off subject, but does anyone know if Sony is going to drop the price of the PS2 to $99 anytime soon? I'd like to pick one up if I can get it at that price since I miss playing my FF games after I sold my old PS2 to buy new computer parts. Also I want to be able to play FF12 the day it comes out! (Although if it comes out after PS3 or the PS3 comes out before the price drop then I'll just buy it hehe)

No only that but it could send a terrible hiden massage.


If they show alot of games playable,many of them will also be multiconsole games,they will not release for 6 or 8 month after the xbox 360 is launch,many people could end up buying a 360 just cuz multiplatform games look equal or close,or maybe it just fuel the graphic whore in many PS2 fans and buy a 360.


Having playbale games early is like saying to their user base buy a 360,insted of wait for a PS3.

 

[randycat99]

A "hidden massage"? That sounds awesome!

 

[rabidrabbit]

I think one reason, if not the biggest reason Sony is not showing too much of PS3 now, at the time period xbox360 hype is at it's fullest, is that there is a danger of consumers confusing the PS3 with xbox360.
I think if the average consumer is shown some next gen footage, he doesn't necessarily remember the next day if it was for the PS3 or xbox360, especially if it's not Halo, Gran Turismo, Zelda or some other title that's clearly an xbox, Playstation or Nintendo franchise.
For a company it's a big advantage to come first at hyping, to put the minds of the consumers to their product, a product from another company competing on the same field must work hard to distinquish itself, and that kind of marketing costs money and is really not very sensible to do until closer to actual launch of the product.

I have heard several times, especially as the original xbox launched, people mistaking the xbox with the PlayStation brand, asking me "What is that new PlayStation xbox like". I don't think people any more mistake them, but when there's two new products competing for the same mindshare the danger is there, no matter if the brand is already heavily recognised.

Another thing (maybe in reality the no. 1 reason) why there hasn't been publically playable PS3 games at TGS or other shows, the PS3 is simply not yet that ready.
Playable code on devkits there most certainly is, but letting people play them in public would be a very very bad idea, as that software is very likely still less than optimal, running slower and buggy. The RSX isn't ready yet, right? Then how could they show the games at an acceptable state if there is not yet fully functioning hardware.
Why show games running slow, not at their full graphical splendor if there is no real need to yet.

 

[jvd]

Timing is everything and people are naive to think otherwise .



Sony had a time advantage with the ps2 over the xbox . You feel it may not amount to much but it amounted to a whole lot . Sony had over a year on development time for developers to get used to the system and had a year to bring up the user base . By the time the xbox launched sony had over 10 million units shipped. If you were a developer which system would u push your game for ? 10 million users or 0 users ? This continued and at some point snowballed as the consumer saw the huge diffrence in titles released and went with the system that had the highest volume .



This time things are diffrent . Ms will have the lead. Depending on sony launching ms can have up to a year in some markets . This will allow ms to have more systems sold before sony launches world wide. This coupled with what we are hearing on the xbox 360 being easier to develop for but ps3 being slightly more powerfull and we may see many developers develop on the x360 and then port over to the ps3 . Thisis what we saw this gen . Games were developed on the ps2 and were ported to the xbox as it was more powerfull .

Now if this is good enough to steal the market for sony , well I don't think so. But i def think ms will take a large chunk of hte market , much more than they have .

It reminds me alot of sega going from the master system to the genesis . I don't see it as a saturn or dreamcast type system as both of those were launched from a company coming off a failed system or add ons and the dreamcast came at a time when sega was almost broke .



For ms the most important thing is to increase thier base in europe and north america as this is what they can do .Japan is a lost cause but i stil lsee them making small inroads . For north america and europe they need to release a slew of games . It doesn't matter if they are all trpple a (though the more the better ) But just fun games and they need to release around the same number of titles a year that the ps3 gets . There can't be any huge gaps between good games .





As for sony and not showing playable hardware at tgs . Well i think its a mistake in some ways . IF they are launching the ps3 in quarter one of 2006 then this was the last major show to um show it at . Looking back at the ps2 they had playable games before the ps2 launch the following year. So i'm thinking sony wont be launching early in 2006 , but perhaps try what ms is trying and launching in the 3 major markets .