Sigh, those "other" players offer things the PS3 can´t and will most likely offer more over time. Right now it´s about studio support and having as many players out as possible, momentum is the key. And HD-DVD has lost that while Blu-Ray has gained it, keeping it will make sure Blu-Ray is a success.
Sony PS3 loss 'to reach $2bn' by March
- Thread starter MasterDisaster
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Sigh, those "other" players offer things the PS3 can´t and will most likely offer more over time. Right now it´s about studio support and having as many players out as possible, momentum is the key. And HD-DVD has lost that while Blu-Ray has gained it, keeping it will make sure Blu-Ray is a success.
http://hometheater.about.com/library/weekly/aa121600a.htmabout.com-best_of_2000 said:
DVD players were selling for under $200 when ps2 came out.
When DVD first hit the market Sony had 2 players within 6 months. The hi-end $1000 player and the lower end $550 player (still working and hooked up in my bedroom
)IIRC Blu-Ray money train goes like this:
1. Matsushita Electric
2. Pioneer
3. Sony
Why people still call this a "Sony format" is hilarious.
Like? (Honestly, it seems to me that the PS3 does more than most of the "other" BR players and cost less to boot: HDMI 1.3, BD-J, etc) I remember reading something on AVSforum talking about how there were only 24k non sony PS3 standalones sold. It is like the whole BR thing hinges on the PS3. If I was one of the "other" players I would be pissed right now. They are losing money anyway they slice it. If the PS3 is so complicated and cost so much then why isn't there another BR player at the same or cheaper price? (That was krytons argument).
*Disclaimer: I can't possibly hope to understand what goes on behind the scenes, so I try not to pretend like I do.
My point is that manufacturers of standalone players don't want to compete on price. They want to have pricing power, to have big margin in the early part of adaption curve. Sony is hitching the Blu-Ray wagon onto the console pricing curve. If I were a manufacturer on that wagon, I have to ask myself, do I really want to take the plunge? Sony makes profits from royalties, games, and movie sales. It's their interest to expand the install base. But I make money off the box. I don't want my margin to be driven down to nothing and watch the Chinese come eat my lunch.
Afaik there isn´t any 5.1/7.1 Analog out from the PS3, basicly limiting it to HDMI for Advanced Audio (goodbye money) or ordinary SPDIF codecs like old school DTS and AC-3.
Or in other words, the player is cheap but you will have to invest in some nice new stuff if you want to benefit 100% from Blu-Ray and the new audio codecs. A standalone player could have some nice analog outputs and most home cinemas could take advantage of the advanced sound codecs from the start.
See previous post.
Sony is not the only manufacturer nor the primary beneficiary that will roll in money if Blu-Ray wins. MEI is the shady godfather figure. It is for this reason that the BDA was formed back in 2002 by a who's who of CE's. They got a much better deal for themselves than the current lop-sided Toshiba/Time-Warner/Sony/Philips monopoly that exists with DVD.
Sony is a company that is now built perfectly for a format war. Morita engineered this situation with the purchase of movie studios. They have learned and adapted from the Betamax failure.
When you have Andy Parson's, a Pioneer employee and spokesperson for the BDA willing people to buy a PS3 that should tell you something.
Furthermore BD companies have not licensed tech out to the Chinese firms. This is yet another reason why there is such great CE support. Toshiba on the other hand is desperate for support that they have gone out and licensed their technology in China in the hope of bringing in a line of cheap players quickly - this is a direct response to PS3 and Blu-Ray's solid industry wide backing.
PS3 might be stealing margins because it is already at a level touching on mass-market adoption. However the situation on the other side is potentially much worse for any major looking to make money – especially when the Chinese players come.
The first cheap Blu-Ray players will probably come from Samsung, LG and one Japanese CE major.
If Blu-Ray wins the war I fully expect Sony's disk subsidy to be removed, causing a slight rise in disk prices, and player prices will remain stable for a while. The CE's will control the drops but internal competition between them will mean that this will be untenable (not to mention illegal). The Korean double-team of the quirky chemical-come-electronics heavyweight and the ever-rising tristar will lead the price drops - and thank god for them.
Point made.
I wonder how long before some manufacturer complains of a Sony monopoly? Its only a matter of time before the PS3 makes up 99% of the BluRay hardware market. The only reason Sony will have such a large market share is because they are selling their hardware below cost. I think Sony has a legimate reason for subsidizing the PS3 as its a common practice in the console market. But to a BluRay player manufacturer, Sony's console practices are severely affecting the ability of other hardware manufacturers to compete in the BluRay market. I read a post somewhere that manufacturers have sold somewhere around 24,000 standalone BluRay players. I don't know if thats true or not but how do you find cost reductions, investment returns or profits around numbers like that. Furthermore, you're dealing with Sony whose trying to push a million plus players a month. Thats seems like a pretty hopeless situation for anyone who isn't Sony especially for the immediate future.
We win as consumers, but it seems that today gov'ts care more about money than they do about their citizens as consumers. If MS can't get away with including a bunch of free MS software with purchases of Windows, then how is Sony going to get away with selling you BluRay players at below cost and at prices that no other manufacturer can afford to match. I think some Sony is doing nothing wrong but trying to be competitive but I'll find this short of amazing if someone doesn't come boohooying.
The question is how well do hi-end media players ($1000+) typically sell? Perhaps the 24k number is reasonable for this market.
The question is how well can hi-end players reasonably sell against a $500-$600 PS3 that itself is touted as highend product? I was reading "Popular Mechanic"'s article about home theater system setup and the DIY highend system included a PS3 as its BluRay mediaplayer with the reason being it just as good as the $1000.00 player for movie playback but with the add incentive of playing games.
Good point - but then Joe consumer isn't interested in $500 movie players either.
The AV'philes don't fancy the idea of a mere "games machine" hosting their media either.
Performance of the platform seems respectable enough but I could see some resistance amoung the group, being the elitest bastards we tend to be.
When ps3 breaks the $300 mark I think the other guys will have a legitimate complaint unless they get there at roughly the same time.
I see your point though.
At this point, I don't think the price difference itself has a large impact. Early adapters are moneyed folk who don't mind overpaying in order to get the best. Deflationary expectation though could negatively affect sales even at the high end. Paying $1000 for something doesn't hurt if you're rich. Paying $1000 knowing that the price will fall to $500 in the near future does, since it feels like you're losing $500.
Demand at any one price point is not infinite. That means if I offer a comparable product but $500.00 dollars cheaper than your product, I gain market share at lower price points that you don't compete at and literally shrink your market potential before you get to any price at or above $500.00 but less than $1000.00.
People spend on top dollar on highend product but the image shaped by Sony is that the PS3 is a highend player. If that image is accepted by the market than any BluRay player is viewed as offering no value at a price point $500.00 above the PS3.
Someone who'd comtemplate spending $1000 plus for a video player probably isn't a value shopper. It is luxury item. People are often willing to overpay just to have something that poorer souls can't afford. The high price is what brings the satisfaction.
The PS3 could be potentially be a problem as manufacturers move down range. If consumers accept the console as a video player, it would suck in all the oxygen before they even get there. I'm not convinced that will happen though. The association of the PlayStation brand with gaming is too strong in people's mind. It's a device for playing San Andreas, not Casablanca. Of course, nothing stops Sony from repackaging the PS3 as a highend BR player. That would actually make some business sense.
Every consumer that invest in highend technology is not a moron that soley uses price to determine the value of a product. Value is more than about finding the cheapest product. It also extends to consumers who are willing to purchase highend equipment because they percieve value in the features that are offered by that $1000 piece of equipment that are lacking in the cheaper products.
Technophiles make up a good portion of the highend buyers and the proportion of knowledgeable buyers is larger in the highend segment versus the low end.
Go to the AVSforums and look under blu-ray players, the "PS3 as a Blu-Ray Player" is by far the topic with the most posts (about 3000).
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Ok this could be a great news for Sony has a whole, but from my gamer point of view it's all but great.
This would mean that a lot of exclusives will be lost and the interest and strength of the platform as a gaming platform will suffer a lot.
