Sony PlayStation VR2 (PSVR2)

[Shifty Geezer]

Indeed. Unless a metric is provided by an independent evaluation, or according to an industry or consumer standard, it can't be guaranteed to be comparative. I don't think there are any standards for how FOV is measured and communicated, meaning companies are free to give their own data. That might mean presenting some best case scenarios or not-quite-what-you'd-expect-them-to-men interpretations of what they are measuring for marketing reasons.

For me. PSVR was no good for VR for 2 significant reasons - lack of physical compatibility with my face, and low resolution. Improvements to eliminate those restrictions are the priority. I do vaguely recall a sort of 'boxed in' feeling but it wasn't particularly noticeable or off-putting, certainly in light of the other restrictions. A slightly constrictive FOV won't be a major hurdle to adoption or appreciation.

Indicidentally thinking about it, I wonder if some low res panels around the interior to fill in the outer FOV would be the best solution? Even looking around naturally, it's rare to look extreme left or right so full resolution isn't necessary to achieve a better sense of immersion by eliminating the boxed-in feeling.

 

[Cardassian Bob]

Valve Index is a 2019 VR product, its not a 2022/2023 one. Its listed as a 130 degree fov and 144hz panel, abit weird its lower than 130?

Can you point out on Valves website where you got the 130° fov from?

 

[PSman1700]

Can you point out on Valves website where you got the 130° fov from?

Not Valves, but basically everyone else. Its certainly weird. I dont own an index as im not intrested in VR, though have played HL Alyx over a year ago with one. Field of view seemed very wide, however its hard to tell like that what kind of specs it has. Question is, where do reviewers/sites get this 130 degree fov from?

 

[Cardassian Bob]

Not Valves, but basically everyone else. Its certainly weird. I dont own an index as im not intrested in VR, though have played HL Alyx over a year ago with one. Field of view seemed very wide, however its hard to tell like that what kind of specs it has. Question is, where do reviewers/sites get this 130 degree fov from?

Field of View (FOV)​

Optimized eye relief adjustment allows a typical user experience 20º more than the HTC Vive

People take this quote and add the 20° to the listed HTC Vive spec of 110°. As I have said previously, I don't think it is physically possible with their design to have 130° fov.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Indicidentally thinking about it, I wonder if some low res panels around the interior to fill in the outer FOV would be the best solution? Even looking around naturally, it's rare to look extreme left or right so full resolution isn't necessary to achieve a better sense of immersion by eliminating the boxed-in feeling.

This would certainly help significantly. One of the biggest drawbacks of almost all VR headsets for me is that I see 2 overlapping views (L + R) and where they overlap I can see the edge + blackness of each eye's view overlapped. Basically because I don't have a dominant eye both eyes are fighting to present what they see.

Not a problem if you are the typical person that has one dominant eye and your brain then creates the image you view based off of that eye with information filled in by the other eye.

In practical terms this means that until the FOV is much wider on headsets (PiMax's measured 150 being the absolute minimum), it's always going to be an immersion breaking annoyance for me.

Alternatively, if there are lower resolution panels to extend the FOV such that it at the very least blends the colorspace out to the edges of the visible horizon, it would presumably remove that hard Image/Blackness edge of overlapping views and at least present something that isn't quite so annoyingly distracting.

Regards,
SB

 

[pjbliverpool]

Alternatively, if there are lower resolution panels to extend the FOV such that it at the very least blends the colorspace out to the edges of the visible horizon, it would presumably remove that hard Image/Blackness edge of overlapping views and at least present something that isn't quite so annoyingly distracting.

This could be done with LEDs without even the need for actual screens. Ambilight does this for monitors and it works very well even with a monitors FoV for giving the impression of additional screen space. I'll bet it could work extremely well in VR until such time as we can have full FoV from the screens.

 

[orangpelupa]

Indeed. Unless a metric is provided by an independent evaluation, or according to an industry or consumer standard, it can't be guaranteed to be comparative. I don't think there are any standards for how FOV is measured and communicated, meaning companies are free to give their own data. That might mean presenting some best case scenarios or not-quite-what-you'd-expect-them-to-men interpretations of what they are measuring for marketing reasons.

For me. PSVR was no good for VR for 2 significant reasons - lack of physical compatibility with my face, and low resolution. Improvements to eliminate those restrictions are the priority. I do vaguely recall a sort of 'boxed in' feeling but it wasn't particularly noticeable or off-putting, certainly in light of the other restrictions. A slightly constrictive FOV won't be a major hurdle to adoption or appreciation.

Indicidentally thinking about it, I wonder if some low res panels around the interior to fill in the outer FOV would be the best solution? Even looking around naturally, it's rare to look extreme left or right so full resolution isn't necessary to achieve a better sense of immersion by eliminating the boxed-in feeling.

Yeah, face compatibility affect fov a lot.

I'm lucky with psvr I can stick my eye balls super close, so close that it almost touches the lenses. Even when I cry the lenses gets wet.

Rez infinite area x, it made me cry.

Anyway, that made me unable to see the screen edges, unless I deliberately move my eyes to the far sides

Oculus quest 1 and 2 on the other hand didn't allow my eyes to be super close. I can see the screen edges. And even worse on quest 2 as it didn't have physical screen ipd adjustment. The screen edge is super obvious at max ipd.

Assuming psvr2 will allow my eye balls to sit super close like psvr1, I will practically can't see the screen edges probably

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This could be done with LEDs without even the need for actual screens. Ambilight does this for monitors and it works very well even with a monitors FoV for giving the impression of additional screen space. I'll bet it could work extremely well in VR until such time as we can have full FoV from the screens.

Yeah, I thought of Ambilight after posting. Although that bounces light off the wall. A simple LED matrix might be suitable but you'd need to diffuse the LEDs so they aren't discernible, either behind a diffusion layer or bounced off a surface. I guess there are options depending on how much peripheral detail you'd want, the cheapest option being to extend the image Ambilight-style without any detail. However, with screens being so prevalent now, would it be more cost effective to just use a bunch of low res panels rather than bespoke LED matrices? I guess you'd need OLED or microLED. What's the lowest resolution you can buy these things at and at what prices/cost to BOM?

 

[Picao84]

I finally got around to play Horizon Zero Dawn (albeit on PC) and enjoying it greatly! All I can think about really is how fun it would be in VR, so I can't wait for Call of the Mountain!

 

[Davros]

And thus it came to pass that the P.C Gaming Gods did hear the prayers of Picao84 and they sent forth a mod

 

[PSman1700]

We will be seeing more of that for sure. HL2 VR is said to be stunningly immersive, and i think HZD is going to be even more impressive due to its open world nature. Call of the mountain is seemingly linear/on-rail so thats not really for me.
If Sony doesnt make PSVR2 compatible on pc then probably modders will, it could be a nice VR headset depending on price ofcourse.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If Sony doesn't make PSVR2 PC compatible, it'll be made to work but the library won't come with it. If Sony delivers a PSVR2 exclusive library, that'd be a shame, but that'd probably ony be a handful of titles from Sony 1st/2nd party devs.

Thinking about it, reasons not to make PC compatible could be simply economics:

1) How many can they make, do they want to leave PS5 owners waiting to get a headset because PC owners are buying?

2) What will the profit margins be or will it be sold ~cost to establish the install base and sell the content? On PC, Sony wouldn't be getting that software money so would either have to sell a more expensive version with a profit margin which PC gamers will moan about and then circumvent as they make standard PSVR2 work without the price premium, or not sell there because they can't afford to run their VR wing as a charity.

If we get to a point where PSVR is established and Sony either has its own PC portal or can make a decent profit on hardware, they'll be more inclined to bring officially to Windows. But as things stand, I can't see a good business case to bring PSVR2 to PC at the moment.

 

[swaaye]

Yeah I have a feeling they won't be able to make enough even for just the PS5 crowd. PSVR1 was in extreme demand for most of release year.

 

[PSman1700]

1) How many can they make, do they want to leave PS5 owners waiting to get a headset because PC owners are buying?

A supply issue problem then, which also exists for the PS5 consoles. PS5 didnt sell as many as intended, and considering VR is a niche market it perhaps would be a good idea to be able to not restrict yourself to the PS5 install base. It doesnt either help that the PS5 itself isnt that sweet 399 anymore but 550 for most users. PSVR2 isnt going to be dirt cheap either, and with the economic times we are in, it doesnt look all that promising.

2) What will the profit margins be or will it be sold ~cost to establish the install base and sell the content? On PC, Sony wouldn't be getting that software money so would either have to sell a more expensive version with a profit margin which PC gamers will moan about and then circumvent as they make standard PSVR2 work without the price premium, or not sell there because they can't afford to run their VR wing as a charity.

However if Sony (in the future atleast) is going to bring VR games over to PC along with its VR headset, then what is the loss? It'd be no different than Spiderman/GoW on pc.

I do not count on Sony having PSVR2 to be PC compatible though, atleast not at launch/near future. However i think the mod community will find ways to have it over to windows/linux and make it work with Forbidden west, Spiderman etc, which to be honest is more intresting to me than a handfull of exclusives to PS5(VR).
In special with a capable machine, you'd be running rift part, spiderman etc for example at the highest settings possible, like Horizon in the above video.

 

[BRiT]

Yeah I have a feeling they won't be able to make enough even for just the PS5 crowd. PSVR1 was in extreme demand for most of release year.

Really? I mean PSVR1 sold 5 million in 3 years. It's not like they have to make millions a month to meet demand like consoles require. A build up of a few million should suffice for the next couple years.

 

[swaaye]

Really? I mean PSVR1 sold 5 million in 3 years. It's not like they have to make millions a month to meet demand like consoles require. A build up of a few million should suffice for the next couple years.

Whatever the deal was, they had trouble maintaining stock for a while after launch. Maybe they just underestimated it.

PlayStation VR Is Back in Stock Just in Time for Farpoint - PlayStation LifeStyle

Sony has announced that PSVR stock in both the U.S. and Canada have just been replenished at several retailers.

www.playstationlifestyle.net

 

[Shifty Geezer]

However if Sony (in the future atleast) is going to bring VR games over to PC along with its VR headset, then what is the loss?

Money, if they aren't selling VR content at the same time people are buying headsets. Selling games on PC makes Sony money. Selling a no-profit-margin hardware devices makes nothing. Heck, ti loses money versus selling the same hardware to a PS5 user. There's no point selling someone a PSVR2 headset today if you won't be able to earn software revenue from them until two/three years from now. It'd be more sensible to wait until you are ready to sell them software at which point margins on the hardware are hopefully bigger.

Unless the hardware is sold at profit. If the hardware is juicily profitable, sure, sell millions to PC gamers. But the expectation so far is Sony will do like PSVR and try to hit a mainstream price for maximum adoption. Selling to the closed PS5 ecosystem, they can afford to sell at cost or even a loss if software attach rates are high. They couldn't then bring that low price to PC.

 

[BRiT]

Selling a no-profit-margin hardware devices makes nothing.

...
Unless the hardware is sold at profit. If the hardware is juicily profitable, sure, sell millions to PC gamers. But the expectation so far is Sony will do like PSVR and try to hit a mainstream price for maximum adoption. Selling to the closed PS5 ecosystem, they can afford to sell at cost or even a loss if software attach rates are high. They couldn't then bring that low price to PC.

While generally true, how certain is anyone that Sony's PSVR2 device fits that description?

 

[Karamazov]

getting a PS5 + PSVR2 should still be half the price of the future Apple VR headset

 

[PSman1700]

getting a PS5 + PSVR2 should still be half the price of the future Apple VR headset

Four times less in EU.