Sony PlayStation 5 Pro

[cheapchips]

Another fascinating development will be UE5. This engine is a product of the PS5 and RDNA2. No real support for hardware RT and DL. With Sony breaking out of this world Epic has to decide if they will ignoring PS5 Pro like nVidia or actually starting to make a proper next-gen engine.

This seems like an odd take on the development of Lumen/Nanite, which is perhap one for the UE5 thread. Specifically for PS5Pro, it's performance and AI upscaling (assuming its good) should fix issues that some of the few native UE5 titles have suffered from.

 

[Shortbread]

well, all they could do in the console market is already done.

Microsoft delivering more XB hardware should always be welcomed. No one wants stagnant or mediocre hardware from one company that has no competition in that space. IMHO, consumers should never want Microsoft or Sony just to level each other out the gaming space without another fierce competitor stepping in.

 

[pjbliverpool]

It looks like AMD and SONY develop a 4070 equivalent GPU, with much lower cost compared with buying 4070 from NVIDIA.

More accurately AMD developed a 4070 equivalent GPU and are selling it to Sony for less than an end consumer can buy a 4070 at retail.

In fact I wonder just how unique PSSL will be given that the timing of it looks likely to roughly coincide with the release of AMDs own ML based upscaling solution and that both solutions are likely going to be designed around the ML capabilities of RDNA 4.

I'll wager that both solutions have a common origin which was either co-developed between AMD and Sony, or potentially just AMD. It will be interesting to see if Series X can make use of the AMD ML upscaler or if it will require any unique RDNA3/4 hardware.

 

[orangpelupa]

A portable Xbox would be a nice surprise. Where Sony chose the high end, Xbox spread its wings in lower ends

 

[davis.anthony]

So PS5 Pro is ~45% faster than base PS5.

Series-X in compute and bandwidth heavy work loads can be 20% faster than PS5.

So is PS5 Pro really that much of a leg up over the competition?

 

[Sonic]

So PS5 Pro is ~45% faster than base PS5.

Series-X in compute and bandwidth heavy work loads can be 20% faster than PS5.

So is PS5 Pro really that much of a leg up over the competition?

It might just come down to the AI upscaling and the RT performance. If both prove to be a tangible upgrade then it could be quite potent even with the meager specs. But if the RT performance doesn't actually end up being 2-3x it's likely a wash from that standpoint.

I'm interested in learning what actual changes they've made to make RT more performant.

 

[davis.anthony]

It might just come down to the AI upscaling and the RT performance. If both prove to be a tangible upgrade then it could be quite potent even with the meager specs. But if the RT performance doesn't actually end up being 2-3x it's likely a wash from that standpoint.

I'm interested in learning what actual changes they've made to make RT more performant.

I'm willing to bet they've not done anything additional to improve RT.

The RT improvements made to RDNA3 at the architectural level and the natural increase in RT units from having more CUs will be the reason for the increased RT performance.

 

[Nesh]

A cheaper and slimmer PS5 while releasing a Pro at the same price as the current model would have done freakin wonders. It could sell the console to more people. Too bad these days are over. Releasing a more expensive model is the reverse of what Sony could do in the past that made the Playstation such a well established gaming device that broke sales records and made it such a recognisable brand. Now it's targeting a more niche market as the gen matures.

 

[Proelite]

Wasn't there early Scarlett silicon taunting 8K powah!

Forgot about that. Yeah, that stamp added like 8 extra teraflops.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I don't think $599 is a big deal. It's a totally reasonable price for the PS5 Pro.

 

[QPlayer]

I think MS are beyond embarrassment.

It's clear that the dudes designing the Series X knew exactly what they were doing - they requested int8 and int4 mixed precision support and all that, and they correctly saw that mesh shader support, high compute and high bandwidth were going to be key areas to focus their limited resources on.

It's equally clear that MS don't really know what to do with those Xboxes. Or they do, but want to do something else because [insert bold vision].

Sony know what to do though.



Even Series S has a lot more performance than the Intel CPUs with integrated graphics (and AMD APUs) that can benefit from software XeSS. Series X could run something heavier than that for sure.

Or they just waited for the right time with their own ML solution and will present it next week or at the game show in June.

 

[rntongo]

first I've heard of this.

He said it himself. Actually apologized for it. It was supposed to be marginally more powerful though

 

[davis.anthony]

What I am willing to bet is Sony will have their own version of ray reconstruction.

Which they could use to lower ray counts per pixel and increase performance without a noticeable drop in quality.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

I don't think the Pro is going to be that successful. It has to last for 3-4 more years.. and I just don't think the jump is there to do that. It's still hamstrung in many ways. We'll see what they can do with the price.

Perhaps MS' plan is to wait another year or so.. focus on getting their current slate of games out, and then release a sizable upgrade over Series X then while also leapfrogging the PS5 Pro in 2026?

They're not going to let Sony remain that far ahead of them for another 4 years.. at least not if they're planning on staying in the race. We'll see I guess.

I think the PS5 and Series X are both good enough to hang around for a good chunk of time. Other than ray tracing, they're both pretty performant: solid CPU architectures clocked decently, solid raster+compute GPU's for 1080p-1440p @ 30/40/60/120fps, 12ish GB's of usable GDDR6 at 448-560GB/s, and 2.5-5.5GB/s SSD's.

It's only really RT in which they noticeably lag. A PS5 Pro can address that, simultaneously offer smoother framerates and higher resolutions, while also giving Sony plenty of data and feedback for AI upscaling/frame interpolation that will most likely be a cornerstone of the PS6.

I think MS can compete just fine in terms of hardware with a 5nm refresh of the Series S and X by using whatever AMD's 5nm architecture is at the time, bumping clockspeeds accordingly, and doing away with split speed memory for the X.

I'm firmly of the opinion that this generation could go 10 years if the Series S became optional for devs/publishers.

 

[rntongo]

I don't see a $499 Pro DE happening anytime soon. PS5 sales have slowed a bit, but haven't collapsed. The current slim PS5 DE is around $399-$449 in most stores, depending on bundle, and the OG model is still going for $499. If anything, PS5 Pro will be $599 (or more) and will be marketed towards the enthusiasts (who are willing to pay more), and not a replacement for the current two models which aims for everyone else.

You bring up good points. I just dont see Sony releasing a $599 discless model after what happened with the PS3. I remember that time quite well and the negativity around the price of the system at the time. $499 without the disc drive is my guess. And a price drop in the current base PS5.

 

[Proelite]

He said it himself. Actually apologized for it. It was supposed to be marginally more powerful though

Link?

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

A cheaper and slimmer PS5 while releasing a Pro at the same price as the current model would have done freakin wonders. It could sell the console to more people. Too bad these days are over. Releasing a more expensive model is the reverse of what Sony could do in the past that made the Playstation such a well established gaming device that broke sales records and made it such a recognisable brand. Now it's targeting a more niche market as the gen matures.

True, but a premium on the Pro could allow for lower margins on a slim model. So a Pro that's not that much more expensive than the current PS5 slimmish might allow for a cheaper PS5nm slim.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

But this is a problem when companies only working with one IP holder instead of continuously researching the competition.

You're assuming they didn't. The problem is going with Nvidia at that time meant nixing the X86APU. It's a massive architectural change.

 

[Proelite]

I think MS can compete just fine in terms of hardware with a 5nm refresh of the Series S and X by using whatever AMD's 5nm architecture is at the time, bumping clockspeeds accordingly, and doing away with split speed memory for the X.

That wouldn't be a refresh, that would be a near pro-style console.

If we're keeping the "refresh" to 52CUs and going to RDNA4 + Zen4/5 + increased clocks, you might have your Series X "refresh" outperform the PS5 Pro.

 

[Remij]

I'm really curious to see how PSSR stacks up. There's that image of a Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart comparison from MLID.. and while I'm not going to get into the validity of it... it does show a decent improvement over the games TAAU mode, and FSR2.

It actually prompted me to fire up Ratchet again on PC to test them out, since I believe that FSR2 got an improvement in a later patch, I was curious to see if it was appreciably better at all.. and, well.. whatever the case may be, FSR2 in Ratchet is still complete trash. Actually even worse than I remember lol.

I made a quick vid very clearly demonstrating its issue. I don't really even need to mention this since it's so obvious.. but focus on the power lines swinging. First I show TAA, then IGTI, then XeSS, DLSS, and finally FSR2. Res was set to my monitors native resolution 3840x1600, and all were tested in performance mode.. so essentially 50% res on each axis.. meaning 1920x800 input res.. and then finally at the very end I show that even Quality FSR2, is worse than any other reconstruction technique at performance.

My main reason for posting this is that Sony's solution will undoubtedly provide higher quality than the terrible FSR2 which is plaguing console image quality atm. So even if that's all it did.. it will be a massive improvement for IQ in upcoming games.