And they're reaffirming their commitment every time they pay for that 12 month Live subscription, or log crazy hours playing FPS of the week too...
Sony: 2012 focus on Kids & Family
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And they're reaffirming their commitment every time they pay for that 12 month Live subscription, or log crazy hours playing FPS of the week too...
Not sure why you felt the need to start a whole new thread over a topic you're already repeating in others, but still...
And finally, tie that all in with Sony targeting the family next year instead of when XB3 should launch...
Aren't we seeing record sales of the current HD consoles? Are we to believe these are selling to casual gamers when COD and FIFA and friends go from strength to strength in console sales? Please present decent evidence of notable numbers of gamers giving up on their consoles and buying into PC instead because the consoles are outdated, and further include evidence that these gamers won't buy into the next consoles regardless of when they launch if next-gen offers good performance, value and services.
And finally, tie that all in with Sony targeting the family next year instead of when XB3 should launch...
"Started" is the key word there. As in, "this is the start of things to come".
The xb360 core retailed for $300. I'm fully aware that was not the BOM, but it was close enough to the BOM that MS felt comfortable in launching the core/arcade for that price. For xb720, if they can fit ROUGHLY the same size silicon and watt budget, they can manage ROUGHLY 8x the transistors and for ROUGHLY the same BOM as the xb360 core/arcade.
Really? I wasn't aware. So when exactly did Ati and Nvidia start utilizing 90nm?
Last time I checked, it wasn't "years" before xb360 launched. In fact, I can't find a reference to any 90nm GPU by anyone prior to October 2005.
So there must have been plenty of big chips with plenty of redundancy and binning on 90nm "years" before xb360 used it right? I just can't find any from anyone not named intel or AMD ... neither of which were an option for xb360.
And as you said, trade secrets and all prevented 90nm knowledge from being used outside of GloFo or intel.
Yes, multiple problems. I'm just not sure why you insist on minimizing the impact that 1 year had. Nobody knows how much that 1 year delay had on PS3, but we do know that MS saw significant gains without much change to their core business model ($300 entry) by launching early and having the hardcore market to itself for a year...
Agreed. That is the financially sensible thing to do ... as I said ... multiple times.
see above
No, actually I'm the one saying they shouldn't wait.
Sony, nor anyone else, knows when MS will launch. It would behoove them to be ready sooner rather than later so that they AREN'T a year late to the party.
Demographics are expanding.
See the OP.
As both systems dip into <$200 they will be hitting new buyers that couldn't afford it at higher prices, but these aren't hardcore buyers... they don't buy a ton of games. They will buy a copy of the most popular game though ...
PC sales spike on BF3:
http://games.ign.com/articles/120/1200238p2.html
Now why would pc sales spike for a game readily available on PS3 and xb360? Aren't the hardcore just happy as a pig in a blanket with the current gen? I mean, it's only been 6 years since this gen started...
How does this relate to Sony stating their intent to focus on kids/family with PS3?
it is recognizing the new demographics coming on-board and the associated shift which comes at the end of the cycle generation.
It's their lifecycle analysis based on PS1 and PS2 data, plus newer trends.
On the PS3 side, I think they will need to update the UI to be more newbie friendly (motion control notwithstanding), add mainstream functionality besides playing games, make it more compatible with iOS and Android devices, and lower the hardware and software price.
Unlike the article, I'm not sure Move alone will cut it. If they intend to bang on Move, they may need to augment it with other new concepts, particularly for non-gaming applications (Entertainment, sports, education, finance, or something else).
However, if they could make PS Suite target both iOS and Android, then they should have access to the huge consumer market there. Based on this pool, they can upsell PS3 + casual extensions to them.
I am actually more psyched about Move for core games than Move for casual games.
You can target iOS using Mono: http://xamarin.com/monotouch (The base platform for PS Suite).
Some of the PS3 contents (e.g., PS Home, LittleBigPlanet Lite, Sound Shapes, SingStar, etc.) are actually MUCH more powerful when ported to iOS and Android as well.
On the PS3 side, I think they will need to update the UI to be more newbie friendly (motion control notwithstanding), add mainstream functionality besides playing games, make it more compatible with iOS and Android devices, and lower the hardware and software price.
Unlike the article, I'm not sure Move alone will cut it. If they intend to bang on Move, they may need to augment it with other new concepts, particularly for non-gaming applications (Entertainment, sports, education, finance, or something else).
However, if they could make PS Suite target both iOS and Android, then they should have access to the huge consumer market there. Based on this pool, they can upsell PS3 + casual extensions to them.
I am actually more psyched about Move for core games than Move for casual games.
You can target iOS using Mono: http://xamarin.com/monotouch (The base platform for PS Suite).
Some of the PS3 contents (e.g., PS Home, LittleBigPlanet Lite, Sound Shapes, SingStar, etc.) are actually MUCH more powerful when ported to iOS and Android as well.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
COD: MW3 is set to shatter the previous record set by COD:MW2. Mostly due to sales on the console.
BF3 sold more copies on X360 than PS3. BF3 sold more copies on PS3 than it did on PC. PS sold the least copies of BF3 on any platform.
Your link does nothing to bolster your claim that console gamers are moving to PC. BF3 prompted many PC owners to upgrade their PCs does NOT equate to console gamers moving to PC.
Combine that with multiple publishers now stating that they will not be porting anymore future titles to PC, and, really. Where is your evidence that console gamers are moving en mass to the PC? I'd love for it to happen. But pirating woes on the platform are making it so that it's not even profitable to PORT a game to the PC anymore for some publishers.
So if there's less games going to the PC platform, and the platform continues to move lower numbers of units than either the X360 or PS3... I'm at a loss as to where you're getting this idea.
Sure there's still a few PC exclusive holdouts, but all of them are currently looking into ways to get onto the consoles. You don't have the reverse sitation where console exclusive devs are looking for a way to break into the PC market.
Regards,
SB
Where are sales spiking? You mean this quote? :
For existing PC gamers who have been waiting for a killer title to justify/inspire their next upgrade? Where's the evidence that hardcore gamers are leaving the console space and buying PC hardware, a year or two from when they'll need those hundreds of dollars for their next console? Where's the evidence that anyone so serious about gaming that they'll get a PC upgrade now because the console's are long in the tooth won't then buy back into consoles next-gen because they value the console experience?TheChefO said:
Adding new customers doesn't mean the old customers are leaving. The latest MW hasn't shown a dip in buyers.
Also:
You ignore the $200 price difference in trying to prove the benefits of first-mover advantage. (OT)TheChefO said:
Sony's focus on kids & family comes from PS3 having already sold to the core gamers who were going to buy it. That market isn't going to present much growth. PS3 hasn't sold as well to the family market as PS2 I reckon because it hasn't had the same backing, but Sony are saying they'll address that. So next year we'll see core games for the existing core gamers who haven't all run off to PC, and family games to attract new customers (if Sony actually deliver) along with family oriented marketing. It'll be exactly like PS2, where the core gamers didn't buy PCs either.
And there it is.
You act as though console and pc gamers live in a bubble and those with a PC couldn't possibly be console gamers and vice versa, those that game with consoles couldn't possibly be interested in PC gaming...
Nope, not with new comers to the newly affordable consoles which will buy their one or two games this year (the most popular ones, you pick) and be done.
Not
Hardcore
Gamers
They buy the latest and greatest as well so that they can game online with their friends, but the PC hardware sales spike indicates a strong desire for new hardware.
It's been 6 years, is it really that hard to fathom that people might start to yearn for something better?
Not ignoring it at all.
Nor am I ignoring the 100million install base that the previous console had, the brand power Sony had, the expectations of gamers for ps3 given Sony's marketing/presentations, the BR player, and the expected Exclusives thought to remain on the console.
I'm not ignoring anything.
And yet, with all of that, the xb360 saw a pretty substantial 1st year of sales and an over-sized attach-rate to go with it. As is to be expected by luring in the hardcore gamer to a platform.
Indeed.
The core gamers have already bought into whatever platforms they were going to buy. And it's been a long while for them.
As for being "exactly like ps2" ... not exactly.
Core gamers jumped into xb360 when it launched 5 years after ps2.
Hence, the huge growth of the platform above and beyond xbox1.
And you've presented no evidence that PS360 owners are instead spending money on PC gaming. Of course you get some people who game on both, but a great many who buy a console do so as their gaming platform. Those who would happily spend on both console and PC hardware will continue to do so, so there's no launch advantages or disadvantages to be had.
Unlike those new hardcore PC gamers who've given up on the outdated consoles are are buying masses of PC titles. Right...
But it doesn't show a strong desire to move away from the consoles. That would be shown in sales of franchises becoming increasingly strong on the PC as people choose to buy COD and FIFA on their new PCs instead of on their outdated consoles.
People only have so much money to spend and already have a lot invested in their existing platform and by association their future platform. Is it really that hard to fathom that people would rather keep $200 now towards the next console they want rather than spend it on a new GPU (and in many cases a GPU won't cut it unless you are into building PCs. There's no add-on for my laptop, for example) just to get some prettier graphics over the short term? PC gamers like the upgrade path, but unless your definition of hardcore gamer is exclusively those who'd buy new GPUs to run games, plenty of other hardcore gamers (those who spend a lot of time and money gaming) stick to their console until the new version comes out.
Why didn't you mention these things in your list of advantages then?
Not one mention of the disadvantage of costing an arm and a leg.
XB install base in US in 2005 ~ 15-16 million. I'm sure all the XB360 buyers in the first year, the 4 million of them, were all PS2 owning core gamers desperate for the new experience, and not XB fans buying into the new hardware.
But TBH I don't even get your argument. You meander all over the place and keep coming back to 'first launch'. I don't get what that has to do with the PC growth you think is happening but which isn't (hence PC developers targeting consoles), nor what that has to do with Sony looking to expand their install base with a family focus next year. Can someone please tell me what this thread is actually suppsoed to be discussing?!
Another note:
With Casuals/kids/family being the new focus for 2012 ... Do they feel comfortable in competing with Kinect which is more accessible?
I wouldn't if I were in their shoes.
Granted, Move is a direct progression to what most have been playing on Wii for the past 5 years, but to them, is it enough of a difference to justify investment to a new platform when Kinect is offering the "controller-free awesome newness!".
Sony does have some good IP to draw from which tailors to this audience, but overall on the kids/casuals/family, I wouldn't say they are competing from a position of strength IMO.
Kinect does seem to have an issue with drawing in developers to make content for the device aside from dancing and exercise games though.
Smart money would be on small budget IP classics, and heavy hitters (AAA) moving onto ps4 development.
Outsourced Vita ps3 ports would still be better than 99% of the ipad iphone garbage.
With Casuals/kids/family being the new focus for 2012 ... Do they feel comfortable in competing with Kinect which is more accessible?
I wouldn't if I were in their shoes.
Granted, Move is a direct progression to what most have been playing on Wii for the past 5 years, but to them, is it enough of a difference to justify investment to a new platform when Kinect is offering the "controller-free awesome newness!".
Sony does have some good IP to draw from which tailors to this audience, but overall on the kids/casuals/family, I wouldn't say they are competing from a position of strength IMO.
Kinect does seem to have an issue with drawing in developers to make content for the device aside from dancing and exercise games though.
Smart money would be on small budget IP classics, and heavy hitters (AAA) moving onto ps4 development.
Outsourced Vita ps3 ports would still be better than 99% of the ipad iphone garbage.
Context.
"The reasons for early adopters to wait". Note I wasn't talking about Sony fans, just early adopters.
As for the price being a negative .. you forget, NOBODY KNEW the price until mid 2006!
I show a huge uptick in PC HW spend on the back of a GAME and you see no correlation.
Ok.
Piracy
Piracy
My definition of hardcore gamer (granted a loose one) is one that buys a lot of games, they game a lot, they buy new hardware when it comes out.
Bottom line, they really like games and spend accordingly.
This demographic is growing old of the xb360 and ps3 cycle. My proof which you dismiss is the PC HW sales spike on BF3.
I suppose the rest of the proof is in the cycle literally, being old.
Well, we know how loyal Sony fans can be, but I'd bet a portion of the xb360 buyers in the first year were indeed ps2-only console gamers.
How many is hard to quantify. But what is easy to see is the increased userbase which has resulted for the xbox platform.
In looking at the previous sales for ps2 and xb and comparing them to ps3 and xb360 ... I'm pretty sure the xb360 userbase aren't all just xbox1 gamers that decided to buy 5 xb360s just to stack them up and stare at the tower of power while the old ps2 userbase are all just waiting for that price to come down so they can join in once again.
I'll break it down:
1) cycle gets old
2) gamers start to look for more eye candy as none are found on existing old consoles
3) nextgen consoles come out (don't be last, else face uphill battle)
Now here we are at around the 1-2 area. At the same time the cycle gets old, the consoles get cheap, leads to new demographics, new game "types" become viable, but at the same time, the cycle is running out of steam.
The kids/family focus is an indicator for nextgen. That's what it is about.
Not between PC hardware sales and console usage. Where's the evidence that large numbers of console owners decided to buy BF3 on PC instead, and bought better PC hardware for the purpose? Your figure shows nothing other than PC ahrdware was sold - not who to; existing PC owners who upgrade whenever a killer title comes out for PC, or to console gamers desperate for better graphics and willing to ditch console and buy PCs.
Ahhhh, so hardcore gamers buy a console, invest lots in it, then when it's old they buy a PC to game on better visuals but decide to pirate all their games instead. And then when new consoles come out they go back to being console gamers and don't upgrade their PC, right?
That demographics is pretty meaningless. They'll buy every console anyway, and invest in PCs all through a generation.
Again with your 'no numbers whatsoever but my whole premise requires a lot of unsubstantiated circumstantial evidence to support it so I'll see correlations where I want them.' The number of existing PS2 owners who jumped ship to XB360 just because it was first could be anything from 0% to 100% of that initial 4 million. It could even include hardcore gamers who bought PS2 when it came out, then XB, then XB360, and now also own a PS3 and a PC gaming rig.
Gobbledegook. What's easy to see is MS grew their market share. What's impossible to determine is how much influence launching first had on that in a forest of other factors such as launching cheaper, offering different services, being marketted differently, introducing a new experience, yadayada.
You're just being silly now, although the notion the 50 million 360 owners are 10 million people who just bought 5 consoles each is as substantiated in well considered fact as your idea that the reason MS sold three times as many consoles this gen as last because they launched first.
So this thread is completely pointless then. Because this gen getting old is hardly big news. It's 6 years old already! We don't need a shifting focus from a console company to make us aware of the bleedingly obvious!
Ok then, we know what the differences were for ps3 and xb360 and what they competed on.
What will they compete on for xb720 vs ps4?
Seriously, I'm not expecting a big difference either way.
In fact, timeline may be the only substantial difference this go 'round.
Do you see this differently?
I see it as off topic, and clearly this thread isn't serving any purpose that others aren't, hence I'll lock it and save the servers a little unnecessary work.
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