Something wrong with 9700?

[rubank]

There are a couple of threads with screenshots here, and there are a few shots in the iXBT review, referred to in another thread.

Problem is, every single screenshot look bad! Now, is this really just a matter of the software used, or is it some hardware problem?

I haven´t much to say about my old Radeon32DDR, but at least it renders perfectly sharp textures (where such are to be found) and very saturated colours for an overall very satisfying IQ.

Is it just me, or is it something very wrong with the 9700 here?

If the IQ is adequately represented in those screenshots, the 9700 won´t be my coming upgrade, as planned.

 

[hax]

My personal experience is that the 9700 IQ is quite good, compared to the other Radeons. I can't explain the screenshots posted here. It looks like some low res textures were used, or the LOD is pushed.

It's possible that it may be a driver bug. That said, the same games don't look that way on my system.

 

[msan_ewu]

"Bad" is subjective even with your additional qualification. Could you snip some parts of the screenshots you're seeing and show us what you're discussing? I think it would breed a more accurate and productive conversation.

Thanks,

msan

 

[Dave Baumann]

Do these look bad?

 

[Galilee]

Every single screenshot I have seen looks great

 

[rubank]

msan_ewu,
for starters let me comment on the pics posted by Dave ("A few screenshots of 9700")

from Dungeon Siege: look at the texture on the floor and some redering mishap in the centre of the pic in the "dungeon" pic, look at the shadows in the outdoor winter scene as well as the sharpness of the ground

from Grand Prix look at the shadows and the lack of sharpness and whar looks like redering issues with the cars

from Nascar look at the shadows and the lack of sharpness in different parts of the pics

from Nolf look at the blurry textures and shouldn´t there be any shadows under the car? Colours seem washed out.

For the rest of the pics you should be able to see for yourself that IQ is lacking.

 

[rubank]

Do these look bad?

Yes.

 

[Doomtrooper]

9700 Images Galore

http://www.speakeasy.org/~gkar1/1280x1024Max Payne.jpg
http://home.san.rr.com/armpit/images/tiger1.jpg
http://www.fierceworks.com/ut/Shot00004.jpg

Edit: For Russ

 

[Doomtrooper]

Do these look bad?

Yes.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Errrr, ooooo-kaaaay….

msan_ewu,
for starters let me comment on the pics posted by Dave ("A few screenshots of 9700")

from Dungeon Siege: look at the texture on the floor and some redering mishap in the centre of the pic in the "dungeon" pic, look at the shadows in the outdoor winter scene as well as the sharpness of the ground

Have you played DS? If not you’ll need a frame of reference. The texture quality has looked like that on every board I’ve used it on IIRC. There is no rendering mishap in the middle of the ‘dungeon’ shot either – that’s just a very busy scene.

from Grand Prix look at the shadows and the lack of sharpness and whar looks like redering issues with the cars

I see neither an issue with shadows or any rendering issues on the car.

from Nascar look at the shadows and the lack of sharpness in different parts of the pics

???

from Nolf look at the blurry textures and shouldn´t there be any shadows under the car? Colours seem washed out.

Again – frame of reference. What other cards have you seen images of? The ‘blurry’ textures may be as a result of the textures used in the game.

Should there be shadows under the car? Was the game designed with shadows in mind? Why doesn’t anything have a shadow?

Colour washed out? Again, frame of reference. Plus – its supposed to be in a storm hence its supposed to look a little gloomy and overcast.

 

[hax]

from Dungeon Siege: look at the texture on the floor and some redering mishap in the centre of the pic in the "dungeon" pic, look at the shadows in the outdoor winter scene as well as the sharpness of the ground

Are you speaking hypotheticals? How about posting screenshots showing the differentiation? I'd need a frame of reference to validate these claims.

Thanks.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Unreal Tournament II shots galore....


AthlonXP 1800+
Abit KR7A-RAID
Radeon 9700 128Mb stock speed
1024x768, 4x AA and 16x AF and every goody in the game turned all the way up

UT 2

 

[msan_ewu]

Well, I just ran around for a bit in Dungeon Siege and it looked comparable. I think the difference would be due to screenshot deterioration if anything. Nature looks exactly the same (I had this discussion on another board with one of my screenshots vs. B3D's), the advanced pixel shader looks 'better' and I don't have any Nascar games but CMR2 doesn't look as good (really a void comparison I guess).

*If* you're discussing jvd's picks then yes, they are poor. Otherwise they look as good or better than on my GF3 with max settings. I'm guessing that some of the shots we're seeing are due to poor image grabbing. Most independent shots I've seen on message boards seem to look pretty good to me... enough so that I'm seriously thinking about upgrading my GF3 to the 9700.

All in all I just can't say without seeing it in person. I'd like to see how the 9700 handles texture aliasing in motion, etc.

 

[OpenGL guy]

from Dungeon Siege: look at the texture on the floor and some redering mishap in the centre of the pic in the "dungeon" pic, look at the shadows in the outdoor winter scene as well as the sharpness of the ground

All of this is a product of the game engine. And it looks the same to me on older Radeons.

from Grand Prix look at the shadows and the lack of sharpness and whar looks like redering issues with the cars

I don't see any "lack of sharpness". The game is using low res textures on the cars. And rendering issues?! I don't see it.

from Nascar look at the shadows and the lack of sharpness in different parts of the pics

I don't see any problems with the shadows. And I also don't see any "lack of sharpness": Notice that you can read the banners on the side of the track in the distance, for example.

from Nolf look at the blurry textures and shouldn´t there be any shadows under the car? Colours seem washed out.

I can't reproduce the colors of the screenshot: Everything looks much more colorful here. Maybe it lost something during the jpeg compression.

For the rest of the pics you should be able to see for yourself that IQ is lacking.

I don't think so and most other people would disagree with you.

 

[Doomtrooper]

We should have a FUD meter in the profile here and a SNR meter, my SNR is always maxxed out so I would clean house....

 

[walkndude]

I think an ignore button would suffice...

I would have to agree that I've seen quite a few shots that look lightly soft as far as texture sharpness is concerned, but it is uniform. Chalk most of it up to compression and resizing.

I've spent the last 48hrs gawking at Morrowind, JK2, rtcw, revolt, nfs p/u,
UT, nolf goty, and all is well. the slight muddines(and I mean slight) that is noticeable in some screenies just isnt there.



37fps in UT2003 has me worried tho, hope thats the cpu/unoptimized code talking and not the 9700

 

[Doomtrooper]

Actually the original poster stated his frames dropped 10 fps when taking the screen shots (HD access)..so say 45-60fps with 16X AF and 6XFSAA

Don't forget its only a XP 1800 on a DDR 266a board, so a KT333 with PC3200 ram and a Athlon XP 2600 would help alot...and of course leaked build.

 

[walkndude]

You listed as 4xaa, and how does 35+10=60 ?

The screen is also barren. What happens when the rockets start flying with a few bots running round ? I'm gonna say its just an alpha for now and keep my fingers crossed.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Oops yep it was 4X AA..sorry...they are not my shots...there is some shots where the frame counter is showing 45-51 and the lowest I saw was 35..I'm not going to argue over a few FPS.

I think we should wait for the final game before making judgement on performance..looking at the newer Anand build his peformance looks even better...

This was more to show IQ...and some sneak pics

 

[RussSchultz]

Please put the pics in a link, and not inline.

All those big pics screw up the forum formatting and make it a bitch to read.

But, to comment on this thread--its this guy's opinion, and he seems to offer reasoning for it. If you disagree, more power to ya, but you don't need to resort to name calling (e.g. calling it FUD). Polarizing comments like that will only create a flashpoint for YAST (yet another stupid thread)