"Some sort of ATI graphics card"

[marco]

De spelletjesgarnaal has the movie, look in their forum!
If it has been removed, I do have the movie..

 

[Sharkfood]

After seeing that AVI, my only commentary is...

Sheesh, they need Paul Steed back badly. The motion on those (incredible) models is stiff, klunky and "shuffly"

 

[ushac]

In an interview over at GameSpy, they state the following:

GameSpy: How easy or hard of an adjustment do you think mod makers will have with the new engine?

Robert Duffy: Probably the biggest adjustment will be how they go about making models and textures, because the source models for a lot of the things are very high polycount. In Quake 3 a model may have two or three thousand polygons, whereas the player models in DOOM III, the original art has probably close to a million polygons. That's been reduced down to four or five thousand for in-game use, but you have to have that million polygon model - you have to have a lot of polygons to generate the bumpmap data that makes it look like a high-poly model in game.

So all the talk about million-poly in game characters and 3d textures might be misconceptions of that high polygon to low polygon + bumpmap (i think they called it "renderbump" ) convertion thingy. Anyhow, the game doesn't look all that shabby...

Regards / ushac

 

[Bogotron]

Sharkfood:

I have a more simplistic view of Doom3: id are just middleware suppliers.

Imagine this type of graphics engine in the hands of other game developers. Doom3 is, as such, not a game that I look forward to but an engine demo I'll enjoy from a technical standpoint. It'll probably take a year or two after the release of Doom3 before we start to see the peak of what this type of engine can do, like it was with Q1-3 before it. Although, IMO, someone will have to retrofit an outdoor/terrain system to it.


Incidentally, the last issue of GameDeveloper has an interesting editorial that points out the increasing importance of middleware suppliers in the gaming industry. I don't think that trend will change anytime soon.

 

[Dave Baumann]

I have a more simplistic view of Doom3: id are just middleware suppliers.

I think quite a substancial element of their income must come from engine licenses, and I partially subscribe to this view; one thing they do do differently though is have a game that essentially showcases their engine technology.

They have said they are concentrating on the single player gameplay elements in this title though so I'm prepared to wait to play the game before formulating opinions (for me Q2 was still one of the more enjoyable single player games I've played in its genre).

 

[Randell]

Talking of Middleware engines, Are there any games in devleopment using the Serious Sam engine?

 

[Sharkfood]

Well, from that AVI it looks like the single player experience will be rivetting. It almost has a "Resident Evil" feel to it as it goes from cutscene (using the engine) to live action.

It definately looks like it will be a fun tromp.. I just wish the models didnt have such stiff, exaggerated movements, fake shifts of weight when walking and more natural animation.

 

[Doomtrooper]

The last scene where some kind of Ogre/Monster kills the hero the animiation looks pretty good, kind of funny watching the creature knock out the hero then start dismembering him..it was dark but I thought it looked good anyways

 

[mboeller]

So all the talk about million-poly in game characters and 3d textures might be misconceptions of that high polygon to low polygon + bumpmap (i think they called it "renderbump" ) convertion thingy. Anyhow, the game doesn't look all that shabby...

Regards / ushac

I just posted this in the bumpmapping-thread too. Crytek calls it Polybump, not renderbump; but it should work the same way :


http://www.crytek.de/polybump/index.php?sx=polybump

 

[CMOT Dibbler]

It definately looks like it will be a fun tromp.. I just wish the models didnt have such stiff, exaggerated movements, fake shifts of weight when walking and more natural animation.

And when was the last time you saw some of the undead wandering around to compare them to?

 

[ushac]

mboeller,

I found where they called it "renderbump"... it was in the same article

GameSpy: How do you go about making textures now?

Robert Duffy: A large percentage of the textures are done exactly the same way. They'll model a wall at a very high polycount, and then renderbump it and turn it into a bumpmap set, into a set of textures that all combine together to give it the 3D look.

Seems to be doing the same thing though. Very impressive stuff!

Regards / ushac

 

[jandar]

I ususally just read thru these forums, but this thread trips me out.

First off, everyone seems to forget that ArtX was bought by Ati and that most of thier engineers started working on the next video card, while Ati's team was working on the r200. (there was about a 6month difference between when Ati started working on the r200 and when ArtX was bought.)

This is good R&D, this card could be entirely different and still come out faster than nVidia's new chip.


Second off, Ati still has 2 enitrely seperate teams working on new cards, r400 is coming from the original r200 team, r500 from the r300 team)

its called a good use of talent and R&D.

nVidia does the same. The GF4 cards were being made the same time as the GF3 ti series were being updated.


Is it really so hard for people to believe that a company can actually do R&D a little quicker than another company????

 

[Doomtrooper]

Is it really so hard for people to believe that a company can actually do R&D a little quicker than another company????

On some forums..Yes...like the Nvnews front page rant today....

Hot Hardware contradicts previous reports that NVIDIA powered the Doom III demo saying, "Their next-generation hardware (presumably R300) powered the Doom III demo on the floor." Somehow, I doubt id would have chosen ATI as they currently use NVIDIA for development. Ya usually dance with the girl ya brung.

Even after this press release...a classic example why I hope ATI this round selects websites that give unbiased reviews..not ones the try to claim cheating...

http://www.ati.com/companyinfo/press/2002/4495.html

 

[Saem]

It'll probably take a year or two after the release of Doom3 before we start to see the peak of what this type of engine can do, like it was with Q1-3 before it. Although, IMO, someone will have to retrofit an outdoor/terrain system to it.

Actually, it's been a steady rise, the latest SoF2, really looks beautiful, the Quake 3 engine can still deliver good looking content, even though it's 3 years old.

I suspect we'll start seeing the peak of Doom3 much later, largely due to hardware with enough fill rate trickling down to the low end and the fact that there will likely be a larger feature set to exploit.

 

[Ty]

Talking of Middleware engines, Are there any games in devleopment using the Serious Sam engine?

I think Derek Smart (Ok, everyone can begin laughing now <G>) bought a license.

 

[John Reynolds]

Is it really so hard for people to believe that a company can actually do R&D a little quicker than another company????

On some forums..Yes...like the Nvnews front page rant today....

Hot Hardware contradicts previous reports that NVIDIA powered the Doom III demo saying, "Their next-generation hardware (presumably R300) powered the Doom III demo on the floor." Somehow, I doubt id would have chosen ATI as they currently use NVIDIA for development. Ya usually dance with the girl ya brung.

Even after this press release...a classic example why I hope ATI this round selects websites that give unbiased reviews..not ones the try to claim cheating...

http://www.ati.com/companyinfo/press/2002/4495.html

I just posted something along these lines on another board, in that I wish more fan sites would follow Rage3D's style of not slagging on the competition. Fan sites should be about fun, not protecting or defending your favorite IHV. Let that company's PR and marketing dept. do their own jobs and keep your site relegated to the fun stuff.

Then again, friction does generate hits.

 

[Doomtrooper]

I totally agree...It's amazing how wrong information can spread like wildfire off a site then only find out its wrong, classic example is here. I consider this site the premier site for the knowledgable, the members here are some of smartest I've seen on any forum.
I came here for years and read and read, and every day I learn something here. There is really nothing like this for indepth 3D talk.
So the example goes back to the old forums, where some members thought ATI's ansitropic was rip mapping...a couple of weeks later the entire internet had some post about ATI's rip mapping, even a magazine article posted the same..can't remember the magazine..Pcgamer maybe.
Showed shots using Pcchen's little program in the article, we then later find out after this site became active again, that it wasn't really Ripmapping but some form of adaptive ansitropic.
So for the thousands of people that read tech forums and buy magzines, it shows you the power of the Internet...for a while they were given the wrong information..and it all started here at Beyond3D No way do I blame Beyond3D as it was only a forum and the site wasn't even up yet and never made any official statement..but shows you the kind of people that visit here..from engineers to just a plain old gamer like me
So again I think its in any sites best interest to post the most accurate information possible, and in this example above a simple check on any site would have linked to the ATI press release that was three days old.

 

[Gunhead]

First off, everyone seems to forget that ArtX was bought by Ati and that most of thier engineers started working on the next video card,

So what? We'll all love hearing about the R300, but we don't hear it yet. While I love the sheer efficiency of Flipper, I don't believe the ArtX team was a buncha magicians. Rather, they were ex-SGI engineers with good uses for 1T-SRAM...

This is good R&D, this card could be entirely different and still come out faster than nVidia's new chip.

What is? I haven't spotted anything patented, that is.

Second off, Ati still has 2 enitrely seperate teams working on new cards, r400 is coming from the original r200 team, r500 from the r300 team)

While this is logical, anything (sheesh, anything) to back this up? I'd like to believe... But if ya provide nothing, I'll be relegated to a Martox/Bibtoys fan, irretrievably lost

 

[Gunhead]

Is "f-a-n-b-o-y" a forbidden term? WTF?

 

[Doomtrooper]

While this is logical, anything (sheesh, anything) to back this up? I'd like to believe... But if ya provide nothing, I'll be relegated to a Martox/Bibtoys fan, irretrievably lost

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1463&p=2

Here Anand interviewed Dave Orton, ATI'S president..

Q:NVIDIA seems to have 3 or 4 design teams in order to order to have a new generation out roughly every year. How many design teams does ATI have?

A. With the addition of the ArtX team that was working on the Flipper chip for Nintendo, we now have 2 full design teams working concurrently on advanced, high performance designs, plus additional teams working on transferring these technologies into mainstream and integrated graphics products