So no harddrive for X-Box 360, Flashdrive instead?

[AzBat]

I'm hearing 2gig of built-in flash for cache. Which is almost exactly the same amount for Xbox1. I assumed it wasn't for saves.

Tommy McClain

 

[passerby]

Someone explain to me what's the difference between this and a big memcard, with the exception that PR wants us to believe that it's really different.

 

[AzBat]

What makes a hard drive different from a memory card? To me they are both the same thing. One just has a spindle and the other doesn't. I suspect there will be enough differences between the hard drive add-on and a memory card. They kind of tech in them is not one of them.

Tommy McClain

 

[wco81]

Someone explain to me what's the difference between this and a big memcard, with the exception that PR wants us to believe that it's really different.

Maybe they will price it more like an iPod than a memory card? They've seen the popularity of people having a lot of their own music with you.

Sounds like they believe they could do the same, except you have not only portable music but portable game content (saves, downloaded content, XBL stats, etc.).

But here's the problem. If this thing can only be used with the X2, it's value will be limited to when it's connected to the X2. People won't take this on the subway, to work, to the gym. So they can't price it like the iPod.

Plus, how often are Xbox gamers going over to someone else's to play games? Isn't the point of XBL a virtual community so that you don't have to leave the house to play multiplayer games? How many people are currently logging on to XBL from someone else's Xbox?

It's like the PSP or the DS being used in wireless LAN mode. Only people still in school are going to come into regular contact with other people who will have the same systems. Once they're out of school, people don't get together to play video games.

This taking over your gaming/music content might work in the dorms or for kids in primary and secondary school. The question is, what about people in their 20s and older? How much of the Xbox and X2 demographic are people who access XBL 99% of the time from home? Or not go online at all?

If the only way to have a lot of custom music for the X2 is to buy this peripheral, then they better price it attractively. Because a lof of those people who have iPods and other DAPs might be tempted to forego this X2 peripheral and listen to their iPods while playing X2 games.

 

[passerby]

So it's just a piece of glorified flash memory, except that it's not restricted to game saves. Like what Sony is doing with the memsticks with the PSP now.

 

[Inane_Dork]

What makes a hard drive different from a memory card? To me they are both the same thing. One just has a spindle and the other doesn't. I suspect there will be enough differences between the hard drive add-on and a memory card. They kind of tech in them is not one of them.

Tommy McClain

Bingo. It's like how pervasive file I/O is in Unix. I don't really care what's on the other end because I can talk to it like it's a file.

 

[wco81]

Doesn't flash memory have a limited number of read/write cycles?

Of course hard drives have a certain number of hours before failure.

How do read/write speeds compare?

 

[AzBat]

Doesn't flash memory have a limited number of read/write cycles?

Of course hard drives have a certain number of hours before failure.

How do read/write speeds compare?

Check out M-Systems web site for the specs on their flash technology. They are touting specs that are better than standard flash and approach IDE.

http://www.m-systems.com/

Tommy McClain

 

[PC-Engine]

Someone explain to me what's the difference between this and a big memcard, with the exception that PR wants us to believe that it's really different.

It seems this device has flash memory AND non flash memory in one device. It's similar to a HDD with a RAM buffer/cache. AFAIK standard flash devices don't contain volitile RAM in it. It means writing to the actual flash part of the device will be minimized. This device seems kinda cool IMO. It can function similarly to GCN A-RAM, but it's removable/upgradeable. In essence it's a memory card AND a RAM cache/buffer. It'd be sweet if there's like 128MB of SDRAM buffer and 128MB of flash.

 

[aaronspink]

What makes a hard drive different from a memory card? To me they are both the same thing. One just has a spindle and the other doesn't. I suspect there will be enough differences between the hard drive add-on and a memory card. They kind of tech in them is not one of them.

Tommy McClain

Speed, latency, data rate. I can get plenty of flash based memory cards but none of them are anywhere near the performance of say:

http://www.bitmicro.com/products_edisk_35_ide.php

 

[Martin Eddy]

What makes a hard drive different from a memory card? To me they are both the same thing. One just has a spindle and the other doesn't. I suspect there will be enough differences between the hard drive add-on and a memory card. They kind of tech in them is not one of them.

Tommy McClain

Speed, latency, data rate. I can get plenty of flash based memory cards but none of them are anywhere near the performance of say:

http://www.bitmicro.com/products_edisk_35_ide.php

What about this?

Same type of product, but it's made by M-SYSTEMS. 8)

 

[GwymWeepa]

I'm crazy, but this is what I'd do. Have x amount of flash memory onboard, then sell large flash memory modules of varying sizes for varying prices. But each one is able to attach to a cradle of sorts that has all the necessary doo-hickies (technical term) to play mp3's, display the data etc...sold seperately of course. So if someone just needs another mem card, they can buy the smallest one, say, 128 megs...or someone can go all out and get a 2 gigger, and if they want mp3 or maybe even movie playing abilities, they buy an appropriate cradle with the screen and chipset necessary to play said media (the flash card would fit in much like the vmu did in the dreamcast controller, though the cradle would need to be smaller than that).

 

[PC-Engine]

I'm crazy, but this is what I'd do. Have x amount of flash memory onboard, then sell large flash memory modules of varying sizes for varying prices. But each one is able to attach to a cradle of sorts that has all the necessary doo-hickies (technical term) to play mp3's, display the data etc...sold seperately of course. So if someone just needs another mem card, they can buy the smallest one, say, 128 megs...or someone can go all out and get a 2 gigger, and if they want mp3 or maybe even movie playing abilities, they buy an appropriate cradle with the screen and chipset necessary to play said media (the flash card would fit in much like the vmu did in the dreamcast controller, though the cradle would need to be smaller than that).

If it had a standard interface like Compact Flash, then you could use it in existing media devices.

 

[Megadrive1988]

So instead of a Hdd we get a bigger Memcard huh? Fine for me, cant stand HDDs in Consoles( I mean REQUIRED HDDs ).
Seriously, instead of adding a HDD for allowing things like Virtual-Memory( converted PC-Engines would love it ), why not add 1-2 Gigs of the cheapest and lowest Performing SDRam you can find and let the Games swap out to that instead.

My Vision of a future Proof Console would be like this: 256-512MB "CPU-RAM", 128-256MB "GPU-Ram", both blazing fast locally but still acessible for the whole system. 1-2Gigs of crappy "CPU Swap RAM", speed of 0,5-1GB/s should suffice - still alot faster than Virtual-Mem on PCs.

niiiiiiiiiice 8) 8)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm crazy, but this is what I'd do. Have x amount of flash memory onboard, then sell large flash memory modules of varying sizes for varying prices. But each one is able to attach to a cradle of sorts that has all the necessary doo-hickies (technical term) to play mp3's, display the data etc...sold seperately of course. So if someone just needs another mem card, they can buy the smallest one, say, 128 megs...or someone can go all out and get a 2 gigger, and if they want mp3 or maybe even movie playing abilities, they buy an appropriate cradle with the screen and chipset necessary to play said media (the flash card would fit in much like the vmu did in the dreamcast controller, though the cradle would need to be smaller than that).

You mean a PSP?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What about this?

Same type of product, but it's made by M-SYSTEMS. 8)

When I looked at this site some year or so ago, I found prices. These lovely, powerful flash based systems cost $thousands. Do you really want to shell out $1500 for a game save card?

Dunno what the limiting factor is for production/cost, but I wouldn't have thought M-systems technology would be scalable up to mainstream for a large market like consoles as is. Otherwise why aren't they competing with the existing flash-storage market?

 

[GwymWeepa]

What about this?

Same type of product, but it's made by M-SYSTEMS. 8)

When I looked at this site some year or so ago, I found prices. These lovely, powerful flash based systems cost $thousands. Do you really want to shell out $1500 for a game save card?

Dunno what the limiting factor is for production/cost, but I wouldn't have thought M-systems technology would be scalable up to mainstream for a large market like consoles as is. Otherwise why aren't they competing with the existing flash-storage market?

Maybe all it took was a hugenormous license? Its my understanding, being a poor ignorant slob who may be wrong, that the more product produced the lower the price tends to go, sometimes dramatically (just look at dvd writers for pc, not too long ago they were a few grand, now you can pick one up for like 40 bucks).

 

[wco81]

I'm crazy, but this is what I'd do. Have x amount of flash memory onboard, then sell large flash memory modules of varying sizes for varying prices. But each one is able to attach to a cradle of sorts that has all the necessary doo-hickies (technical term) to play mp3's, display the data etc...sold seperately of course. So if someone just needs another mem card, they can buy the smallest one, say, 128 megs...or someone can go all out and get a 2 gigger, and if they want mp3 or maybe even movie playing abilities, they buy an appropriate cradle with the screen and chipset necessary to play said media (the flash card would fit in much like the vmu did in the dreamcast controller, though the cradle would need to be smaller than that).

If it had a standard interface like Compact Flash, then you could use it in existing media devices.

Console makers get good margins from memory cards which can only be used on their consoles. Sony still charges $25 for an 8 MB card. So if Microsoft used CF or SD cards, they wouldn't make any money. People could just buy 1 GB cards from Sandisk or Lexar instead of the MS-branded card.

It will be interesting to see what kind of storage capacity and price they could deliver. You really need storage for $20-30 for consoles. If they come out with a $100 storage device, or even a $50 one, it better offer a lot more than simple storage.

 

[PC-Engine]

I'm crazy, but this is what I'd do. Have x amount of flash memory onboard, then sell large flash memory modules of varying sizes for varying prices. But each one is able to attach to a cradle of sorts that has all the necessary doo-hickies (technical term) to play mp3's, display the data etc...sold seperately of course. So if someone just needs another mem card, they can buy the smallest one, say, 128 megs...or someone can go all out and get a 2 gigger, and if they want mp3 or maybe even movie playing abilities, they buy an appropriate cradle with the screen and chipset necessary to play said media (the flash card would fit in much like the vmu did in the dreamcast controller, though the cradle would need to be smaller than that).

If it had a standard interface like Compact Flash, then you could use it in existing media devices.

Console makers get good margins from memory cards which can only be used on their consoles. Sony still charges $25 for an 8 MB card. So if Microsoft used CF or SD cards, they wouldn't make any money. People could just buy 1 GB cards from Sandisk or Lexar instead of the MS-branded card.

It will be interesting to see what kind of storage capacity and price they could deliver. You really need storage for $20-30 for consoles. If they come out with a $100 storage device, or even a $50 one, it better offer a lot more than simple storage.

I'm aware of that, but MS could easily make the slot on Xenon require specific requirements. For example the optical drive in the GCN is just a miniDVD drive, but you can't put any miniDVD in there and expect it to work. They could make it where when you insert this special RAM Drive into the slot it'll accept it while rejecting all other CF devices. In addition they could also make this RAM Drive compatible with CF slots where the drive will recognize when you're not plugging it into a Xenon but into another device instead.

 

[Blazkowicz]

This is very old news, we have been knowing this for quite a number of monthes! It was rumored to be 512MB flash memory from M-systems.

Why would it be on a CF slot? There's almost no reason to think it would not be soldered on the board
BTW the 3DO already had 32KB of SRAM for saves.