So no harddrive for X-Box 360, Flashdrive instead?

[Brimstone]

Xbox 2 Hard Drive Functionality Revealed.
Posted by Curll on April 05 '05 at 07:45 PM

With the forthcoming Xbox 2 release this fall and unveiling at E3 (Well, we think. We thought CES and GDC, too.) we've heard about Xbox 2's add-on HDD. Well, we've heard from a source within MS about X2's hard drive functionality.

In essence, it's a huge memory card. Bring your game saves, DLC, characters, MP3s, and saved replays to your friend's house. Load in your HDD and show your friend your kick ass character, or a PHAT RIDE, YO! Show him the course you made in PGR3, or the gametype you created in PDZ. Transfer saves, items, levels, and more with them (via memory card or Live? This info wasn't clarified). It won't be the supposed iPod killer. More like a portable Xbox Identity. Plug it into any Xbox and it'll know your Live account, stats, preferences, saves, and all of that good stuff. Think of it similar to Pokémon. Lugging around your GBC(olor) with Pokémon Red. Someone has Pokémon Blue, you trade some Pokémon and say good day. You can do this with saves, items, or whatever the developer wants. This should also be a Live feature, the way it was stated to us (Or perhaps just a Xbox Live marketplace feature, with the hard drive enabling it).

It won't be a normal IDE hard drive. One, because if you drop it and dislodge the head (insert penis [hehe] joke here), you wasted the extra cash and your info is gone. Two, because of hackers. It's going to be durable, portable, and sleek. He suggested it'd be "pretty fashionable" if you choose to alter it's exterior looks with stickers or whatever.

It will be pre-loaded with some things, to entice buyers. Obviously, what's pre-loaded was not even hinted at.

E3 starts May 17th. Look for more information (and probably leaks) in the upcoming month leading up to this year's Conference and Expo.

http://www.xblgamers.com/story.php?storyid=121


I did a patent search on M-Systems and found this

Novel flash memory arrangement

Abstract
A device, a method and a system for direct execution of code from a flash memory arrangement, in which a separate memory component is not required, even if a flash memory component is used which has a restriction on the size of a data block which can be read at one time. Furthermore, the flash memory arrangement is optionally implemented as a "single die" chip or device, which is more efficient for manufacturing and which also results in lower costs.


SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

[0006] The background art does not teach or suggest a flash memory arrangement which enables flash memory devices to be used for direct execution of code even if there is a restriction on the size of blocks of data which can be read. In addition, the background art does not teach or suggest a flash memory arrangement which does not require an additional memory component in order to accomplish this goal.

[0007] The present invention overcomes these deficiencies of the background art, by providing a device, a method and a system for direct execution of code from a flash memory arrangement, in which a separate memory component is not required, even if a flash memory component is used which has a restriction on the size of a data block which can be read at one time. Furthermore, the flash memory arrangement is optionally implemented as a "single die" chip or device, which is more efficient for manufacturing and which also results in lower costs.

[0008] According to a preferred implementation of the present invention, the flash memory arrangement features a flash memory component in direct communication with a volatile memory component, such as S-RAM or D-RAM for example. These two components are preferably arranged within a flash-based unit, and therefore communicate with a logic processor such as a CPU through the port of the flash-based unit. Thus, an additional memory component, outside the flash-based unit, is not required.

[0009] According to the present invention, there is provided a flash-based unit for providing code to be executed by an external processor, comprising: (a) a flash memory for storing the code to be executed, the flash memory being of a type such that the external processor cannot read the code to be executed directly from the flash memory; and (b) a volatile memory component for receiving at least a portion of the code to be executed, such that at least the portion of the code is executed by the external processor from the volatile memory component.

[0010] According to another embodiment of the present invention, there is provided a system for executing code from a restricted non-volatile memory, the restricted non-volatile memory being characterized in that code cannot be directly executed from the restricted non-volatile memory, the system comprising: (a) a CPU for executing the code; (b) a volatile memory component in direct communication with the restricted non-volatile memory for holding at least a portion of the code to be executed, the at least a portion of the code being transferred from the restricted non-volatile memory, such that the CPU executes the at least a portion of the code from the volatile memory component.

[0011] According to yet another embodiment of the present invention, there is provided a system for executing code, comprising: (a) a flash-based unit for storing the code to be executed, the flash-based unit comprising a flash memory of a restricted type, being characterized in that code cannot be directly executed from the flash memory and a volatile memory component for receiving a portion of the code to be executed; and (b) a processor for executing the code, the processor receiving at least the portion of the code from the volatile memory component; wherein an additional memory component is not required for executing the code by the processor.

[0012] According to still another embodiment of the present invention, there is provided a method for booting a device, the device featuring a processor for executing code, the method comprising: providing a flash-based unit in the device for storing the code to be executed, the flash-based unit comprising a flash memory of a restricted type, being characterized in that code cannot be directly executed from the flash memory and a volatile memory component for receiving a portion of the code to be executed; sending a busy signal to the processor; transferring the portion of the code to the volatile memory component; removing the busy signal; and executing the portion of the code by the processor to boot the device.

[0013] According to another embodiment of the present invention, there is provided a flash-based unit for providing code to be executed by an external processor, consisting essentially of: (a) a flash memory for storing the code to be executed, the flash memory being of a type such that the external processor cannot read the code to be executed directly from the flash memory; and (b) a volatile memory component for receiving at least a portion of the code to be executed, such that at least the portion of the code is executed by the external processor from the volatile memory component.

[0014] Hereinafter, the terms "computer" or "computational device" refer to a combination of a particular computer hardware system and a particular software operating system. Examples of such hardware systems include those with any type of suitable data processor, as well as any type of device which has a data processor of some type with an associated memory. The term "portable device" refers to any type of computer or computational device which is portable, including but not limited to, a PamPilot.TM., a PilotPC.TM., a PDA (personal data assistant) or any type of personal data player, a cellular telephone, or any other handheld device.

[0015] For the present invention, a software application could be written in substantially any suitable programming language, which could easily be selected by one of ordinary skill in the art. The programming language chosen should be compatible with the computer by which the software application is executed, and in particularly with the operating system of that computer. Examples of suitable programming languages include, but are not limited to, C, C++ and Java. Furthermore, the functions of the present invention, when described as a series of steps for a method, could be implemented as a series of software instructions for being operated by a data processor, such that the present invention could be implemented as software, firmware or hardware, or a combination thereof.

 

[Npl]

So instead of a Hdd we get a bigger Memcard huh? Fine for me, cant stand HDDs in Consoles( I mean REQUIRED HDDs ).
Seriously, instead of adding a HDD for allowing things like Virtual-Memory( converted PC-Engines would love it ), why not add 1-2 Gigs of the cheapest and lowest Performing SDRam you can find and let the Games swap out to that instead.

My Vision of a future Proof Console would be like this: 256-512MB "CPU-RAM", 128-256MB "GPU-Ram", both blazing fast locally but still acessible for the whole system. 1-2Gigs of crappy "CPU Swap RAM", speed of 0,5-1GB/s should suffice - still alot faster than Virtual-Mem on PCs.

 

[Inane_Dork]

I'd say this is about the 6th time I've read exactly this rumor. Nothing new.

 

[Brimstone]

So instead of a Hdd we get a bigger Memcard huh? Fine for me, cant stand HDDs in Consoles( I mean REQUIRED HDDs ).
Seriously, instead of adding a HDD for allowing things like Virtual-Memory( converted PC-Engines would love it ), why not add 1-2 Gigs of the cheapest and lowest Performing SDRam you can find and let the Games swap out to that instead.

My Vision of a future Proof Console would be like this: 256-512MB "CPU-RAM", 128-256MB "GPU-Ram", both blazing fast locally but still acessible for the whole system. 1-2Gigs of crappy "CPU Swap RAM", speed of 0,5-1GB/s should suffice - still alot faster than Virtual-Mem on PCs.

I was thinking of the possibility that when you turn on your console with the flashcard installed, all your save games are immediatley loaded from the flashcard into the consoles memory, and once the game dvd has been read, everything conncerning that game on the flashcard starts to be read by the CPU. The 360 would have loading speeds similar to cartridges.

 

[Pozer]

I still wanna know how an optional HD is gonna handle DLC and more importantly patches for Live enabled games. Does that mean you can play online till a patch comes out? Or is Xbox360 LIVE service gonna require the HD addon? Gonna be interesting how they pull this off.

 

[pegisys]

I like the HDD in the xbox aswell, with all the downloadable content from xbox live, save games, and it was something I didn't have to pay extra for. I thought that was the biggest thing xbox had over the other systems.

I wonder if they are going to have a small amount of flash memory built in the console and then you can just by bigger if you want

 

[GwymWeepa]

I still wanna know how an optional HD is gonna handle DLC and more importantly patches for Live enabled games. Does that mean you can play online till a patch comes out? Or is Xbox360 LIVE service gonna require the HD addon? Gonna be interesting how they pull this off.

lol, what if there was no memory cards, what if the only means of saving is with the unit?

 

[Confidence-Man]

The guy who wrote the story updated it:

Quick clarification: There is a means to save your games internally built into each Xbox 2 and for developers to use as a cache. You do NOT need the additional hardware to save your games. You will need it for the custom soundtrack functionality, however. Sorry about the confusion.

 

[wco81]

Price is going to be the biggest determinant of how widely people adopt this thing, if it turns out to be an optional thing.

Will developers support it before high attach rates materialize?

 

[TexT]

I wonder if they are going to have a small amount of flash memory built in the console and then you can just by bigger if you want

I just hope it can preform in-game cache for games.

 

[Fodder]

My Vision of a future Proof Console would be like this: 256-512MB "CPU-RAM", 128-256MB "GPU-Ram", both blazing fast locally but still acessible for the whole system. 1-2Gigs of crappy "CPU Swap RAM", speed of 0,5-1GB/s should suffice - still alot faster than Virtual-Mem on PCs.

The problem is you couldn't save anything on such a system, the volatile memory will lose all data whenever you turn it off.

 

[Acert93]

I think keeping a mass storage device out of the X2 is a mistake. I know it is costly to have a HDD, and therefore other storage mediums should be explored, but Xbox is finally making good use of the HDD. It took 4 years of evangalism and tinkering but I think developers are finally getting a hold of it.

With MS projecting a goal of 80% LIVE! install base on X2 they really need the functionality native and supported on every machine.

I guess MS could go the route of offering a HDD with X2 LIVE! and bundle it as a LIVE!/TiVo type deal. As long as LIVE! has a large mass storage device (and I am thinking 10GB or more) it will be fine. 1GB is too small for a lot of levels, updates, extra content, micro transaction data, etc...

 

[wco81]

80%?

How much is it currently? Is it even 10%?

Online is a niche. I'm sure the next-gen consoles will be easier to get online (with wireless so people don't have to worry about wiring the home network).

But a lot of people just aren't interested and certainly and subscription fee will be an obstacle to wide acceptance (anything above a 40% attach rate).

And I say that as someone who tries to only play online games.

 

[Acert93]

80%?

How much is it currently? Is it even 10%?

Online is a niche. I'm sure the next-gen consoles will be easier to get online (with wireless so people don't have to worry about wiring the home network).

While not disagreeing (the 80% number may as well have been equivalent to the 100M Xbox sales statement), I think there is some optimism to be had.

For example, there are 150M broadband connections in homes around the world (34M in the US) with an estimate of 215M by the end of 2005 (which roughly means the US could be closing in on 50M, if not by 2005 then surely by the end of 2006).

As broadband gets cheaper, is available in more places, and more methods of delivery (like BB over powerlines, non line of sight wireless, fiber optic) become available I can see a large percentage being possibly by 2010.

While this is not founded upon anything but conjecture, I could see MS trying to do a different model of revenue stream with Xbox. Instead of up front sales, they may consider down the line selling the console super cheap but having it bundled with Xbox LIVE. To me the fact MS would disclose Micro transactions and be setting such high and lofty goals for LIVE would indicate this is a possibility. As a business model it is smart because subscription based services can really supply a huge revenue stream. Sell a $300 console for $100, but collect $200/yr for LIVE and 3 or 4 years down the road you really have made a killing.

But you are right, not everyone wants to play online, can play online, or is willing to dish out money for such. I would say the 40% number you mentioned would be more realistic.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

80%?
How much is it currently? Is it even 10%?

Yeah, but 80% of Xenon user base only needs it's user base to be made up of that current 10% Live! subscribers!

While not disagreeing (the 80% number may as well have been equivalent to the 100M Xbox sales statement), I think there is some optimism to be had.

While this is not founded upon anything but conjecture, I could see MS trying to do a different model of revenue stream with Xbox. Instead of up front sales, they may consider down the line selling the console super cheap but having it bundled with Xbox LIVE.

But doesn't HAlo2 show this won't work. Of umpteen million free Live! accounts taken up with Halo2, only a small percentage thought it worthwhile paying for subscription.

Couple of other points.

I remember checking out M-Systems website some 8-12 months ago. Their high-speed flash systems cost $thousands!! Have they got anything to offer the Flashmem space?

How vulnerable are HDs? The article suggests you drop it and it's busted, but the HD's I've seen listed all have impact resistance to forces of like 50 Gs (non-operating), which is a lot. Does an iPod get totally trashed when it's dropped?

 

[one]

As a business model it is smart because subscription based services can really supply a huge revenue stream. Sell a $300 console for $100, but collect $200/yr for LIVE and 3 or 4 years down the road you really have made a killing.

Phantom is the pioneer !!!!1111

 

[London Geezer]

Does an iPod get totally trashed when it's dropped?

Nope. Actually i was surprised at how resistant it can be, speaking of the smaller models at least. They do seem more compact and resistant than the bigger ipods too.

 

[Npl]

My Vision of a future Proof Console would be like this: 256-512MB "CPU-RAM", 128-256MB "GPU-Ram", both blazing fast locally but still acessible for the whole system. 1-2Gigs of crappy "CPU Swap RAM", speed of 0,5-1GB/s should suffice - still alot faster than Virtual-Mem on PCs.

The problem is you couldn't save anything on such a system, the volatile memory will lose all data whenever you turn it off.

Thats why you have Memcards -Sony is going to use its MemorySticks and M$ something else. My Point is that I think (nonoptional) Harddrives or other solidstate Memory built into Consoles are a waste.

 

[chachi]

Does an iPod get totally trashed when it's dropped?

Nope. Actually i was surprised at how resistant it can be, speaking of the smaller models at least. They do seem more compact and resistant than the bigger ipods too.

A smart marketing move would be to 1) build an iPod dock into the system, 2) partner up with Apple like HP did to resell branded iPods to use as the hard drive for the system or 3) come out with some sort of compatible docking system on your own player so people could use the dock-compatible device of their choice (though that might mean a trip to the courts). It wouldn't be as fast as a newer 3.5" drive but it'd be fast enough for most things console and people could take their multifunction device with them for typical iPod things. If it was just used for caching stuff then it shouldn't have a problem with running all the time (they're not engineered for constant operation).

I can't see MS doing it, though they'd have the most to gain (hitching their console to a popular cultural phenom) because they seem to hate the iPod as a corporate entity since it bypasses WMP. The iPod is technically capable of playing WMP so it's possible they could make Apple see it their way, but it'd take a lot of something to get it done. Sony lost a lot of face when they failed to anticipate the iPod-type market, I can't see them giving up the market for portable players like that. Nintendo, um, can't see it at all.

 

[pegisys]

Sell a $300 console for $100, but collect $200/yr for LIVE and 3 or 4 years down the road you really have made a killing.

$200 a year for online no would buy it not if other company's offer free online play. microsoft might shoot there self in the foot this time, no one thought much about online play this gen when the new systems come and you can get free online play alot of live user might jump ship

Thats why you have Memcards -Sony is going to use its MemorySticks and M$ something else. My Point is that I think (nonoptional) Harddrives or other solidstate Memory built into Consoles are a waste.

I rather have internal storage if I can buy a 80GB HDD for a lil over 50 bucks why can't one come with the system, they should be able to get a really good deal if they are going in to a console which they know is going to sell alot, and the memory sticks are 150 dollars for 1GB that is going to cost you alot more than the cost of a storage device if it was included, and if they plan to offer any kind of downloadable content thats not going to be enough space