So is PS3 GPU one generation beyond Xenon graphics chip?

DaveBaumann said:
Panajev2001a said:
I don't ignore them either, but I still debate them if I am not convinced... how else am I going to learn ;) ?

Of course, but dismissing things as "irrelevent" is not condusive to a learning process.

I do not dismiss them as irrelevant, I would not debate with them if I did.
 
that's getting boring..
Even industry insiders do mistakes, and even industry insiders can have a bad attitude sometimes..just like everyone.
 
Regardless of the exact minutia of the timings for individual availability of 90nm parts, the fundamental point is that they are likely to be projecting similar timescales for future process availability, and that’s the important facet of the discussion.
 
DaveBaumann said:
Regardless of the exact minutia of the timings for individual availability of 90nm parts, the fundamental point is that they are likely to be projecting similar timescales for future process availability, and that’s the important facet of the discussion.

True and the whole point of this thread is that Sony are very likely targetting their chipsets one process generation ahead of MS.
 
DeanoC said:
Intel certainly think they were first (not that, that is any real evidence of course :)
"Intel Pentium 4 processor on 90nm technology has the distinction of being the world’s first high-volume processor on the new technology"
http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/2004/volume08issue01/foreword.htm

So it looks like Sony claims they were first and Intel claim they were first. Bit of a stalement then so lets have some fun...

No, Intel didn't claim they were first in 90nm.

"Intel Pentium 4 processor on 90nm technology has the distinction of being the world’s first high-volume processor on the new technology"

They only claimed "high-volume processor" was the first. Looking even this page still holds an erroneous description ("Intel began shipping products built on 90 nm technology in the fourth quarter of 2003"), it seems they strongly hoped 90nm to be a nice hype of them, but it didn't work because of delay.

Actually, Sony only follows Toshiba in process technology.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200212/02-1203E/
TOKYO, December 3, 2002 -- Toshiba Corporation and Sony Corporation today announced the world's first 65-nanometer (nm) CMOS process technology for embedded DRAM system LSIs -- a major breakthrough in process technology for highly advanced, compact, single-chip system LSIs that will be only one-fourth the size of current devices while offering higher levels of performance and functionality.

...

Current system LSI devices on the market are produced with 130 nanometer process technologies. Toshiba, the recognized industry leader in advanced process technology, is the only company with mass production technology for 90nm process embedded DRAM system LSI, a technology it is currently deploying and that will meet ever increasing demand for more and more compact devices.

http://www.reed-electronics.com/electronicnews/article/CA270489.html
Toshiba Takes 90nm Process Lead

Online staff -- Electronic News, 1/13/2003

Toshiba Corp. today disclosed details of its 90nm process that could place it ahead in the race among chip companies to be the first to reach volume production at such an advanced technology node.

Toshiba has begun sampling its 90nm SOC process and aims to begin mass production in Q2, with high-volume production beginning in Q3. That could place Toshiba ahead of the likes of Intel, IBM and TSMC, all of which are expected to reach production at 90nm in the second half of 2003.

Since this thread is becoming another branch of Open PC Architecture vs. Closed Game-console/CE Architecture, I'd like to quote this interesting article about "digital consumer". Who benefits from iPod selling well? One of them is Toshiba, the manufacturer of the mini-HDD in iPod.

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Article5700.htm
by David Manners Wednesday 28 April 2004
Japan's semiconductor firms build on their strengths

The Japanese are back. After the 'lost decade' of the 1990s when the Japanese semiconductor industry lost market share, under-invested and retrenched, the companies are now cock-a-hoop.

Japan's domestic market is booming, the local companies have cash to invest in new capacity, they have cutting edge process technology delivered by industry consortia and the electronics industry's macro trends are moving in their favour.

Last year, Japanese domestic semiconductor consumption overtook US domestic semiconductor consumption for the first time in over a decade, reflecting the change in shift from a PC dominated semiconductor market to a digital consumer led semiconductor market.
The PC industry was an US-dominated industry where Intel and Microsoft set the standards and took most of the profit with a host of companies supplying components and software on a 'horizontal' industry model.

The digital consumer industry is a Japan-dominated industry where the industry is organised on a 'vertical' model of companies, which each have total control of the product from chip design to chip manufacturing to end product assembly.


For the Japanese semiconductor industry, this return to favour of the integrated, vertical industry model is a harbinger of good times.

"The Japanese semiconductor industry is coming back," says Toshihiko Ono, president of Fujitsu's electronics devices business group, "and the reason is that with the 0.13µm and 90nm and future technology generations the fabless business model no longer works, in my opinion."

"For the last ten years, everything in the US and Europe followed the fabless/foundry, horizontal business model," says Sartoru Ito, president of Renesas Technology, the world's third largest semiconductor company, "now the industry is coming back to the vertically integrated business model."

"The market is shifting from a focus on the PC - which is an American dominated area - to a focus on digital consumer (DC) products where Japan is dominant," says Dr Tsugio Makimoto, chief technology officer of the networking group at Sony Semiconductor.

The effect of the PC to DC transition is that the vertically integrated semiconductor model will gain strength at the expense of the horizontal fabless/foundry model.

"As structures get smaller, mismatches between design and manufacturing magnify fluctuations in the outcome of the production process," explains Makimoto, "so design has to understand the capabilities of manufacturing which are constantly changing. So if manufacturing is not good enough, the design people can build in safety factors to take account of the limitations of the process. That's the benefit of the synergetic effect of having control over everything from design to manufacturing. This is why 0.13µm was delayed on the foundry side because of the miss-matching of the design and the manufacturing side."

IBM agrees. In February, Dr Tom Reeves, v-p and general manager of IBM's Asic division, said the semiconductor industry generally is getting a 50 to 60 per cent first-time-right rate for 0.13µm silicon, but the foundry industry is only getting a five to ten per cent first-time-right rate.

So, as structures get smaller at 0.13µm and below, the difficulties on matching design to manufacturing are increased, so favouring the vertical industry model and consequently favouring Japan. "The strength of Japan is in the vertical model because of our culture - valuing teamwork and paying attention to very small details," says Makimoto.

With the long reign of the PC as the major market for semiconductors coming to an end, the major semiconductor market for the next decade, or even two, will be DC products: digital TV, digital video recorders, DVD, camera-phones, games machines, digital cameras, camcorders, car navigation systems etc, which were first developed and marketed in Japan. Adding to the DC market is that products like mobile phone handsets, PDAs and notebook/handheld computers are becoming DC products.

The 'digital consumer' tag is a bit of a misnomer. "There's no difference between 'analogue' consumer products and 'digital' consumer' products," says Dr Susumu Kohyama, corporate senior v-p at Toshiba Semiconductor. "The quality of the consumer's experience comes mostly from the quality of the picture and the quality of the sound and those are totally analogue."

Whatever you like to call it, the market effect of DC is significant. Last year, for the first time, semiconductors sold for use in consumer, communications and automotive products were worth more than semiconductors used in computers, according to World Semiconductor Trade Statistics (WSTS). That has huge implications for Japan.

"There's been no major market in Japan for the last ten years," says Ito of Renesas, "now digital consumer is a major market segment and Japan is clearly leading that, and, from the semiconductor point of view, we have major customers here and we have the technologies to support them, such as high density packaging and low power."

"The digital consumer type of business is very different from the PC business," adds Ito, "the PC business is more like box-making with a clear standard from Intel and Microsoft. If you have a limited expertise in one area you can be part of it. It's characterised by fragmented expertise around a standard. Digital consumer has no standard. How you make the product attractive to consumers decides the competitiveness of the product."

Dr Hajime Sasaki, chairman of NEC, says: "The American players are coming from the PC side, the Japanese players are coming from the TV side. Going from a PC approach to a TV approach is more difficult than from TV to PC because of the structure of the market."

While the US industry will have to adjust to that structure; the Japanese industry already has it. A big advantage of the DC consumer products for the semiconductor industry is that they have much greater value of chip content than the old 'analogue' consumer products even if much of the value-added in DC products comes from analogue components.

DC products can use up to ten times more semiconductors than the old ones. Semiconductors in film-based cameras were worth an average $4, in digital cameras it's around $40. Semiconductors in analogue TVs are worth $20, in digital TVs it's $110.

In products like car navigation systems the semiconductor content, at around $100, represents 17 per cent of the product's end value. In mobile phones a chip content of $40 represents 20 per cent of end product cost.

So the new, chip-intensive, DC products will help drive semiconductor industry output and, with the current semiconductor upswing being driven by consumer products, the Japanese semiconductor industry has the advantage of having most of the world's consumer electronics giants on its doorstep.

Sony, for instance, uses $8bn worth of semiconductors a year. Others, like Matsushita, Toshiba, NEC, Hitachi, Sanyo, Fujitsu, Mitsubishi and a host of other Japanese producers of electronic consumer goods keep Japan at the top of the consumer electronics industry.

Collectively Japanese companies make over 80 per cent of the world's camcorders, over 70 per cent of the world's games machines and camera phones, and over 60 per cent of the world's digital cameras and car navigation units.

Supplying these companies with semiconductors could set the Japanese semiconductor industry on a 20 year-long roll.

"In the past, the technology and market-place in Japan, south east Asia, Europe and the USA were all different - consumer in Asia, communications in Europe and computer in the US - and Toshiba operated in all those technologies and markets. But now those technologies and markets are converging and so Toshiba can offer all those technologies and all that knowledge," says Toshiba's Kohyama.

Another factor driving the Japanese upswing is the effect of various industry/academia/government consortia over the past few years. "In the case of technology development, government investment helps to overcome Brick Walls," says NEC's Sasaki. "In the 1990s the semiconductor industry had a Brick Wall at 100nm. We had similar consortia in the 1970s when we had a Brick Wall at 1µm. Once it was overcome, the technology could be refined without basic changes."

In the 1990s, the US and the EU started all sorts of industry support activities, says Ito of Renesas: "Makimoto did a report to the Japanese government which resulted in the SNCC (Semiconductors in the New Century Committee). Makimoto was the central guy in that initiative."

The SNCC gave rise to a number of industry consortia in which the Japanese government matched industry financial contributions 50/50. One of them was the ASPLA (Advanced SOC Platform Technologies Activity) which helped companies make the transition into 300mm/90nm manufacturing.

Others were ASCA (Advanced Semiconductors through Collaborative Achievement), HALC (High Performance and Agilent Clean-Room Association) and MIRAI (Millennium Research for Advanced Information Technology).

"The consortia have played an important role in strengthening the basic technology," says NEC's Sasaki, "but at the same time we've seen a big improvement in the market with three key products - flat panel LCD/PDP TV, the DVD-Recorder, and the digital still camera."

A sparkling 2003 saw the Japanese domestic semiconductor market grow 40 per cent, and allowed the Japanese semiconductor companies to replenish their financial coffers giving them the opportunity to invest in new technologies and new manufacturing capabilities.

"Sony spent $1.2bn in 2003 - the fourth highest capital spend in the industry. Semiconductor investment is the highest priority in the company," says the firm's Makimoto.

NEC, with $1bn from its sale of shares and another $1bn gained from operations has a $2bn pot to invest in a new 300mm 90/65nm wafer fab.

Toshiba's semiconductor division generated $1bn of positive cash-flow last year and announced the ground-breaking on a new 300mm 90/65nm wafer fab in April.

Fujitsu, without the huge cash balances of Toshiba and NEC, has nonetheless come up with a strategy to build a 300mm 90/65nm fab. It has persuaded partners to contribute towards the cost.

The reason why those companies are ready to put up their money is because they get access to Fujitsu's 90nm technology - which claims to be the best in the world for low power. That's because it has solved the problem bedeviling everyone else's 90nm process - current leakage.

"We have achieved high speed with low leakage," says Fujitsu's Ono. "Data from an American customer shows that, in our 90nm process, the speed has been increased by 30 per cent and the current has been reduced by one fifth, compared to other foundries." 'Other foundries' includes, says Ono, IBM, TSMC and UMC.

Japan does not see the moves of the US computer companies into DC products as a threat.

"It's very cheap stuff - just assemble and ship," says Toshiba's Kohyama, "we can't yet know the impact on products like low-end flat panel TV, but it may accelerate the commoditisation of the product. I wouldn't want one in my living-room - it would spoil the atmosphere."

Ito of Renesas reckons: "I think the US will have some success in the consumer business but not to the extent that they succeeded in the PC world. They will be viable competitors, but not dominant."

Distribution may also be a problem for the US companies. "The US companies most likely won't have direct channels to the customer through stores - they will sell via the Internet," says Kohyama, "if customers require any more detailed explanation of products they can't get it."

Can the Japanese semiconductor industry recapture its glory days of the late 1980s when they had six companies in the world semiconductor top ten and over 50 per cent world market share? No one is predicting that. Yet. But the mood bubbling away in Tokyo is bullish.
 
Vysez said:
BTW, and that's slightly off-topic, but the more i hear about next-gen games, from various statements to actual screenshots, and the less i believe we'll see games with more than 1M polygons per frame (@60Hz, of course), especially the first batch of games.

UE3 use more than 1.200.000 polygons, and TS said that it is runing great in the SDK ( 9800XT :?: ) and the shader instruction set is from 50 to 200
 
arhra said:
The R520 is completely unrelated to the xenon gpu.

I dont know if I would take it that far. It appears that this is true due to the 3D architectural split at R400/R420. However, 3D is not the only aspect of the GPU and I wouldnt be suprised if other areas of the chip made there way from the R400 line to the R420 line and vice versa. This would make them not so unrelated.
 
Enos_Feedler said:
arhra said:
The R520 is completely unrelated to the xenon gpu.

I dont know if I would take it that far. It appears that this is true due to the 3D architectural split at R400/R420. However, 3D is not the only aspect of the GPU and I wouldnt be suprised if other areas of the chip made there way from the R400 line to the R420 line and vice versa. This would make them not so unrelated.

I think you are stretching a bit to show that they are related. Thats like saying an airplane and car arn't unrelated different because they both use tires (ignore sea planes pleaze).
 
Wow, That Electronics Weekly piece sounds familiar in tone...

Anyways, thanks for the article One. It was a delight to read. :p
 
"The market is shifting from a focus on the PC - which is an American dominated area - to a focus on digital consumer (DC) products where Japan is dominant," says Dr Tsugio Makimoto, chief technology officer of the networking group at Sony Semiconductor.

The effect of the PC to DC transition is that the vertically integrated semiconductor model will gain strength at the expense of the horizontal fabless/foundry model.

"As structures get smaller, mismatches between design and manufacturing magnify fluctuations in the outcome of the production process," explains Makimoto, "so design has to understand the capabilities of manufacturing which are constantly changing. So if manufacturing is not good enough, the design people can build in safety factors to take account of the limitations of the process. That's the benefit of the synergetic effect of having control over everything from design to manufacturing. This is why 0.13µm was delayed on the foundry side because of the miss-matching of the design and the manufacturing side."

Synergy, the new corporate culture buzzword for Sony? It could be just a coincidence "synergetic" was used, afterall it's a common word, but in light of the small cores in "CELL" being named Synergistic Processing Units I'm not so sure. Anyway I just found the use of that word amusing.
 
Inane_Dork said:
Every PR group uses "synergy" all the time. It's probably not worth your time to wonder about.

I've already returned to being a pro-active forum member. Thanks for the insight number two. I'll be seeing you.
 
On the topic i think that it´s safe too assume that the "next gen gpu" from nVidia is built with 90nm in regards to cost and transistor budget.
That is for the pc-part ofcourse.
Now what i wonder is it crazy too belive that $ony has said to nVidia that you can add a couple of quads cause we are going to fab this at 65nm so we can "afford" a bigger die/relative to the pc-part that´s likely going to be built using 90nm at another foundry?

btw Merry Christmas to you all at B3D :D
 
DeanoC said:
I see no pretty chip art from either Sony or Intel, miserable gits :)
<laughs> Much love for Deano to be able to introduce much-needed levity and a fun site to boot. ;) One could even say it's "compellingly synergistic!"


...or not.
 
Chipworks vs Silicon Insights

Chipworks: PSX Chip Is Too 90nm
Online Staff -- Electronic News, 2/4/2004

Technical services company Chipworks Inc. said today that Sony's Playstation X processor was manufactured with 45nm gates, leading it to believe that it is indeed made with a 90nm process.

Another chip market research company, Silicon Insights, claimed that Sony's EmotionEngine and Graphics Synthesizer chip, found in its latest Playstation game console and which Sony says is built on a 90nm process, was actually built with a 0.13-micron, or 130nm process technology. Silicon Insights said it removed the chip from a PSX model DESR-5000, and determined it was built on 130nm technology with a die size of 90mm square.

But Chipworks announced on its site today that after reverse engineering the EmotionEngine chip, that the device has gate lengths more consistent with a 90nm process. Chipworks even has a cross section SEM image on its site of what it says are the gates of the Sony chip in question.

"Chipworks obtained a sample of the Sony PSX chip and had started to take it apart based on the reports that it was a 90nm part, but we have come to somewhat different conclusions than those reported last week," Dick James, Chipworks' senior technology analyst, said in a statement on the company's Web site. "For one thing, we found transistors with a physical gate length of 45nm to 50 nm, which immediately led us to believe that we did have a 90 nm part."

Chipworks conceded that the Sony chip, fabricated in partnership with Toshiba, while perhaps not meeting the exact definition of a 90nm process as spelled out in the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors, is nevertheless comparable with the leading edge Intel Corp. process in terms of gate dimension. Intel 90nm chips, as announced at last autumn's Intel Developer Forum, reportedly have gate lengths of 45nm, slightly larger that the 37nm polysilicon gate length considered the benchmark by the ITRS for the 90nm node.

The EmotionEngine chip also utilizes an advanced two stack low-k dielectric structure, according to Chipworks. This, combined with the 45nm gates, makes the chips one of the most advanced in production today, the company maintains.

Chipworks observed that the ATI RADEON 9600XT graphics processor, built by foundry Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., like the Sony chip uses Applied Materials' Black Diamond low-k intermetal dielectrics, but with 85nm gates. This indicates it is clearly a 0.13-micron device, according to Chipworks.


Semi Insights stands by 'not 90-nm' description of PSX chip
By Peter Clarke
Silicon Strategies
02/05/2004, 12:11 PM ET


LONDON -- Despite seemingly contradictory photographic evidence put forward by a rival engineering company, Semiconductor Insights has said it stands by its claim that the manufacturing process used to fabricate the processor for Sony's Playstation X entertainment system, is not a 90-nm process.

On Wednesday Chipworks Inc, a rival Canadian engineering consultancy, had claimed it had found transistors on the processor with physical gate lengths considerably smaller than those Semiconductor Insights said it had found, and that this was indicative of a leading-edge process. At the same time Sony continued to insist its Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesizer, or EE+GS, processor was being built on a 90-nm manufacturing process, as it had always claimed.

The previous week Kanata, Ontario-based Semiconductor Insights had said the smallest physical gate lengths it had found, after sampling multiple sites on the chip, were of 70-nm, and that this was slightly larger than the 65-nm the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors (ITRS) equates to a 130-nm manufacturing process.

This, together with a metal-one pitch that Semiconductor Insights measured as being closer to the ITRS 2003 definition for a 130-nm process than a 90-nm process, and similarly relaxed embedded DRAM measurements, had persuaded the firm to go public with its claim (see story).

At the time Edward Keyes Semiconductor Insights chief technology officer said: "It's clear that it's a 130-nm chip, not a 90-nm chip, as defined by the ITRS,"

But on Wednesday (February 4, 2003) Ottawa-based Chipworks published a photograph on its website identified as showing a cross-section of deep-submicron transistors within a CXD9797GB, the part number stamped on the package of the EE+GS processor. On the photograph two transistors are marked as having physical gate lengths of 46.7-nanometers and 47.5-nanometers, respectively.

Although Chipworks acknowledged these did not meet the ITRS 2003 definition for a 90-nm process, the engineering firm observed that the 90-nm manufacturing process from Intel Corp. is reported to have a gate length of 45-nm, barely different from the smallest gate lengths found in the Sony PSX processor.

When asked by Silicon Strategies on Wednesday (February 4, 2004) if Semiconductor Insights could have missed some more aggressively scaled transistors in its original measurements, Edward Keyes, chief technology officer of Semiconductor Insights said that Sony has never claimed to have such small geometry 47-nm transistor gate lengths in its 90-nm process.

Sony's published gate length claims for the CMOS4 process and the ASC9 embedded DRAM process match Semi Insights' findings of 70-nm, Keyes said. Semi Insights has confirmed those measurements and pointed that is not a 90-nm process by the ITRS tables, Keyes added.

Keyes acknowledged it is not possible to measure every transistor but he also said it is not necessary, as transistors don't come in an infinite number of sizes.

"Engineers don't have the freedom to alter the gate length," said Keyes.

Silicon Strategies asked if it was possible that different logical gates, such as different versions of NAND, with different fan-outs or with different drive strengths, selectable from a library, might result in transistors which when finally etched and diffused in silicon have different physical gate lengths.

"If half of one percent of the gates are at some extreme point does that make the chip belong to the next process node? I would say no," Keyes said in answer.


Reasons why measurements may differ


Keyes said he was reluctant to comment on the Chipworks scanning electron microscope photograph as he did not know how the microscope had been set-up to take the photograph. "There are a couple of reasons you might get different measurements though."

Keyes said that typically gate polysilicon is etched back in preparing the sample. This produces sharp edges that will emit electrons strongly. This can make the surrounding buffer oxides appear thicker than they really are, and make the gate appear shorter.

The second possibility is the geometrical effect of taking an end-of-gate slice, rather than going through the middle of the transistor, when cross-sectioning the chip.

Rather like slicing though the edge, rather than the middle of an orange this has the effect of making the polysilicon gate (the flesh of the orange) look narrower and the oxides (the pith) appear wider.

When asked how it was possible to know whether a sliced transistor was a good representation of the gate length or an end-of-gate aberration, Keyes said: "It comes down to the law of averages. If 99 percent are the transistors are constant and there's a few 30 percent smaller you discount it."

Keyes acknowledged that he would expect end-of-gate slices to vary and not to show identical reduced measurements.

Keyes added that Semiconductor Insights assessment had not just rested on the lack of sub-70-nm gate length transistors but also on the metal-one pitch which had measured at 260-nm. Keyes said the ITRS definition gives 210-nm for a 90-nm manufacturing process and 295-nm for a 130-nm process.


Chipworks findings


Dick James, senior technology analyst for Chipworks, said that although the two transistors Chipworks had photographed were measured to be below 50-nm in gate length he could not identify where in the EE+GS processor the sub-50-nm transistors had been found. This, he said, was because, until an example chip is delayered, the characteristic transistor layout remains hidden under upper metal layers.

James also said he believed that the transistors Chipworks had found were not end-of-transistor anomalies, because several transistors in a line had produced similar measurements in each transistor. If an end-of-transistor anomaly was being measured you would expect the measurements to vary, he said, unless the cut happened to hit the arc of each transistor-end in exactly the same place.

James also said that Chipworks was familiar with edge-effects in samples prepared for scanning electron microscopy by etching. "There is a bit of distortion depending on beam energy. But when you're looking at a gap like this I've got more confidence. Our SEMs are calibrated to within plus or minus 5 percent," said James.

"We did see wider polysilicon lines. But we see p-channel transistors at 48 to 49-nm and n-channel transistors at 46 to 47-nm. The embedded DRAM is more relaxed but you'd expect that."

After studying Chipworks' photograph Semiconductor Insights' Keyes wrote an email to Silicon Strategies saying: "It's apparent that the line-end effect that we talked about is not occurring in this cross-section and hence cannot be the explanation for their smaller measurement. We do still stand by our original statement that this is not 90-nm technology according to the roadmap and we will be investigating further."

Who right who wrong? Who side are you on? Hmmm....

But deno say it best, no pretty chips everywhere. :LOL:
 
One cool thing, Semi Insights gave PS2 GS an award for impressive SoC remember? Some Sony fan always quick to point out this award to highlight Sony exellence in enigineering.

So is Semi Insights reliable or not?

Business Editors & Technology Writers

OTTAWA--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 11, 2001

Semiconductor Insights is pleased to announce that it has awarded Sony Computer Entertainment (SCE) with an INSIGHT Award for the Most Innovative Computing Semiconductor Product of the Year for the Sony Graphics Synthesizer(TM) from the Sony PlayStation(R)2 game console.

"System-on-a-Chip (SoC) design has been a buzzword in the semiconductor industry for the past 5 years. Sony has developed a chip that exemplifies the philosophy of SoC as it not only integrates many functions on-chip but also integrates different technologies," said Derek Nuhn, Chief Operating Officer of Semiconductor Insights. "The extreme performance of the resulting chip is phenomenal."

"This is the first year Semiconductor Insights has given out the INSIGHT Awards and we plan to make it an annual tradition," Nuhn said. "Semiconductor Insights performs competitive technical intelligence on devices in every technology area each year putting us in the unique position of analyzing the true technical merits of leading edge semiconductor products."

The Sony Graphics Synthesizer is used in the PlayStation2 game console and can handle 20 times the simultaneous data of some PC graphics accelerators and can render 75 million polygons per second. The device is implemented in a sophisticated DRAM process with high performance logic in a single die. Some game reviewers describe this chip as "wicked fast."

"PC technology has generally led the advancement of process geometries in semiconductors," a senior analyst indicated. "Sony's Graphics Synthesizer has a logic core with embedded DRAM. The embedded DRAM uses sophisticated sense amplifiers that contain an SRAM latch and two read data buses. This combination of DRAM and SRAM is intended to improve the speed of the video memory for better drawing performance."

Semiconductor Insights' analysts also discovered that although Sony's Graphics Synthesizer was likely implemented in a 0.18 micron process, transistor sizes were found to be as small as 0.1 microns. Sony uses a process approach that results in near-perfect alignment of the transistors and capacitor contacts.

The Sony Graphics Synthesizer was chosen amongst other innovative products nominated by Semiconductor Insights' analysts, including such devices as the Intel Pentium 4 Processor, the AMD Athlon Processor and the nVIDIA Geforce2 Graphics Processor. These runner-up devices also represent true innovations:

Intel Pentium 4 Processor -- This device is developed on Intel's 0.18 micron process and has transistor gates as small as 0.1 microns. Intel uses a "notched" gate to achieve the smaller transistors that also results in other benefits in the process. The version investigated by Semiconductor Insights runs at 1.5 GHz -- over twice as fast as the Pentium III examined in early 2000. Intel is using low-k dielectric in their higher speed processors to reduce capacitance between metal lines and allow for faster operation. Most other manufacturers currently use copper for high speed operation.

AMD Athlon Processor -- AMD is implementing their 1GHz and higher processors in both aluminum and copper probably to verify and test their copper process. Semiconductor Insights has analyzed the copper version of the Athlon. Like the Intel Pentium 4 Processor, AMD has transistor gates as small as 0.1 micron.

NVIDIA Geforce2 Graphics Processor -- nVIDIA is a fabless company that uses TSMC as its foundry for manufacturing integrated circuits. Developed on a 0.18 micron process, the Geforce2 has more functionality that previous generations, including transform and lighting functions, leading to faster process speeds, dynamic per pixel shading and videoprocessing that, in conjunction with a receiver, allows for computers to view HDTV signals.

Semiconductor Insights congratulates Sony Computer Entertainment and their design team for demonstrating innovation and implementing a design that advances the development of semiconductor technology.



:D
 
overclocked said:
On the topic i think that it´s safe too assume that the "next gen gpu" from nVidia is built with 90nm in regards to cost and transistor budget.
That is for the pc-part ofcourse.
Now what i wonder is it crazy too belive that $ony has said to nVidia that you can add a couple of quads cause we are going to fab this at 65nm so we can "afford" a bigger die/relative to the pc-part that´s likely going to be built using 90nm at another foundry?

btw Merry Christmas to you all at B3D :D

That may not be far from the truth. They have approached problems many times like this in the pass.

And no, I don't believe these GPUs will be anything alike as what most people may think. I have my own reasons for this, but I'll leave it at that.
 
pahcman said:
One cool thing, Semi Insights gave PS2 GS an award for impressive SoC remember? Some Sony fan always quick to point out this award to highlight Sony exellence in enigineering.

So is Semi Insights reliable or not?
:D

Why would you bring that up? It even mentions the 75million polygons figure many people cry at...

But yeah, the PS2 won some awards. It was after all a very different and powerful machine compared what was available at the time.

I don't think a P3-733Mhz and a modified NV25 could deserve awards, although i think the NV2A did win something.
 
Back
Top