Silent hill 3 WTF!!!

The first two Silent Hill games had Shenmue-like city environments that the main characters could walk around in and explore. We still haven't seen the city environment in Silent Hill 3. Also, the game isn't out and still has about a half a year of development left. So how about we wait till it comes to compare graphic engines?


Btw, I have both Shenmue 1 and 2 and at no point are there 50 NPCs displayed. At most there's around 20 at the martial arts school in Wan Chai. It also slows down there. The Shenmue engine could probably display 50 NPCs but only if the polygon models were cut in half.
 
On the pic Lazy8 posted, isn't that specular highlighting on her face? If not, it looks heck of a lot simillar to the highlites on the laayosh's picture.

sh3_041.jpg
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The Shenmue engine was being held back by the DC. In other words the engine itself is much more sophisticated than the SH3 engine. SH3 looks good graphically, but the engine isn't managing anything near Shenmue's. That was Lazy8s point

If this is the point we're argueing, then with all due respect, I can not find anything sophisticated about an engine that is being held back by its own hardware. Shenmue was developed for Dreamcast and therefore should be able to use the hardware at its limits but not more. Saying that the engine might be capable of more, but the hardware is the deciding limiter is kind of pointless isn't it? It's like saying the MGS2 engine could handle over 100 soldiers on screen all packed in with that amazing rain particle, but doesn't because the hardware would be the deciding limiter. In the end, what you get on screen is what you get. Going by what Bowie states about the hardware not even coping with 20 NPCs on screen, why argue about 50? To me, a more sophisticated engine is one that can use the hardware in its most efficiant way without having to fight with "limiting" hardware.

I'm not sure how anyone can deny that the game is very sparsely textured. The textures that are there are quite nice, but the overall look has a distinctly flat-shaded, cartoonish style to it.

Of course it has a cartoonish style to it, and perhaps this is the main reason why most people dismiss its texturing without even taking a good long look at it. Just take one of the cave sceneries where you'll see different patches of texturing on rocks and all lighted differently accoarding to fire or other light sources. Consider also that this games run at double the framerate, so does the Getaway aswell (despite it having very frequent slowdowns).

I did bring in an example from Shenmue which I felt showed improvement in the specific characteristic I was talking about. The discussion inevitably turned into people discrediting Shenmue's overall graphics, though. So, in the midst of talking about some other games with great graphics (Silent Hill 3, Jak and Daxter), all I've been trying to do is point out the things that still makes Shenmue look great when you see it running.

Fine. Personally, I think the characters look great in Silent Hill 3 and that a lot goes down to artistic choice/talent. I believe the characters in that form as they are presented in the screens above fit great into the gritty atmospheric scenery and I can't see how 'different' skin textures (as you tried to explain with the Shenhua screen) might do a better job... but hey, that's just my opinion. ;)
 
If this is the point we're argueing, then with all due respect, I can not find anything sophisticated about an engine that is being held back by its own hardware. Shenmue was developed for Dreamcast and therefore should be able to use the hardware at its limits but not more. Saying that the engine might be capable of more, but the hardware is the deciding limiter is kind of pointless isn't it? It's like saying the MGS2 engine could handle over 100 soldiers on screen all packed in with that amazing rain particle, but doesn't because the hardware would be the deciding limiter. In the end, what you get on screen is what you get. Going by what Bowie states about the hardware not even coping with 20 NPCs on screen, why argue about 50? To me, a more sophisticated engine is one that can use the hardware in its most efficiant way without having to fight with "limiting" hardware.

What if the engine was programmed specifically for PS2 or Xbox? Answer: it would look a lot prettier than the DC version and at the same time still be as complex with regard to management of many different immersion/detail factors. All we have on Xbox is a PORT with minor upgrades.
 
Phil:
Going by what Bowie states about the hardware not even coping with 20 NPCs on screen, why argue about 50?
The framerate does weird things in places regardless of how many people are on screen... not too different from a lot of adventure games in that sense.

There's a hidden dojo with the same number of people elsewhere in the game, and it doesn't have slowdown like that there. There are more than a few gambling spots with about 30 people that have no slowdown. When I had almost 40 people because I was blocking the entrance to one of the general stores, the framerate didn't change at that spot.

Then again, I've been near the fountain in Aberdeen with only one person, and it did slowdown. So, in some places, it's not really so dependent on the NPC load. You have to remember that this game is constantly streaming the life routine animations for any number of the 1000+ cast of characters off the disc at any one time plus handling a lot of other little tracking tasks, so seeing slowdown in Shenmue II DC was not at all uncommon (some places worse than others). Still, it generally wasn't the NPC load that affected slowdown... it was usually something to do with the environment.
 
Phil:
Of course it has a cartoonish style to it, and perhaps this is the main reason why most people dismiss its texturing without even taking a good long look at it.
I took a good long look at it. I would not dismiss anything from a technical standpoint just because of its style, but that whole engine pushes so little in the way of texture quantity (in relation to our comparison) that many polygons simply look flat-shaded. Overall the engine is quite impressive, but it does so while balancing other elements ahead of texturing. I mean, Sonic Adventure 2 runs at 60hz too (full frame pro-scan even), but the two games are worlds apart in how concentrated they are with textures. And worlds apart in geometric complexity too... in Jak's favor, of course.
 
marconelly! said:
Laa yosh, on that page you linked to, the guy explains that the shader used to simulate sub skin refractions was something much simpler - a toon shader as far as I can see?

Yes, that's his method... There are other ways though, for example I use a combination of applying a bit of self-illumination in the lit areas of the skin based on a Fresnel-term; and I transition between a desaturated, and a more reddish version of the skin texture, based on how much light the surface receives.
Steve prefers the cartoon shader partially because he's aiming at a more illustrative look.
The fake nature of this shader is evident on the ears and the nose, by the way - but because the effect is so subtle in reality, you can go a long way in fooling the viewer with such tricks. And also, you could alo paint mask textures to make SSS look different on various parts of the body...

Specular highlites when applied to a skin, can look both good and unnatural. For a skin to look like that, it would have to be quite sweaty or greasy, and even then it would require quite a strong directional light. If you look youself in the mirror (or look at the people around you in the room) you will see that they don't look anything like that. There are no highlites that you can compare to those on that picture.

There are, just take a look at your average Hollywood movie :) It depends on lighting.
Under real-world lighting conditions, most of the illumination is not primary but light reflected from walls, the sky, and other things. Such light is diffuse and thus it will not create speculer highlights. Photo shootings, videoclips and such will also use large white screens to scatter the light coming from the spotlights.
Some Hollywood movie settings will, however, use direct illumination to create high contrast images. This is very common in night shoots... Thus, the image above has such strong specular highlights intentionally, because of the harsh lighting that Stahlberg has used.
 
I don't get your logic PC-Engine.

The DC was holding the Shenmue engine back... but... when it was on Xbox it looked identical. But that was just a PORT... what they needed to do was rewrite the engine for Xbox hardware, and then it'll be awesome.

But.. that would be a new engine. I mean, the engine was written for Dreamcast, it's probably got all sorts of quirks because it wasn't meant for ultra-powerful hardware. So if they re-wrote it so it didn't have those quirks, it'd be a new engine.

You're acting like their engine has some revolutionary design behind it... but it doesn't, I mean it's a pretty basic engine. There are a number of other engines that are equally as impressive, they just do different things (MGS2 for impressive graphics, GTA:VC for massive sprawling landscape). I mean, if someone else (like Konami) re-wrote Shenmue with the same design doc, I'm pretty sure they'd be able to make a game pretty much identical. There's nothing particularly revolutionary going on - it WAS impressive at the time, just as MGS2 was impressive at the time. Why cling to it the way you guys do? It's been surpassed - get over it.
 
PC-Engine

What if the engine was programmed specifically for PS2 or Xbox? Answer: it would look a lot prettier than the DC version and at the same time still be as complex with regard to management of many different immersion/detail factors. All we have on Xbox is a PORT with minor upgrades.

Well, it isn't and this wasn't exactly what anyone was argueing. You were argueing that the Shenmue engine is much more sophisticated than the SH3 engine. If and how sophisticated a Shenmue engine optimized for PS2 or Xbox would be, remains highly speculative and therefore questionable. In its currrent form on Dreamcast hardware (and in development for several years if I remember correctly), I don't think it's as sophisticated as you make it to be.

Lazy8s

The framerate does weird things in places regardless of how many people are on screen... not too different from a lot of adventure games in that sense.

There's a hidden dojo with the same number of people elsewhere in the game, and it doesn't have slowdown like that there. There are more than a few gambling spots with about 30 people that have no slowdown. When I had almost 40 people because I was blocking the entrance to one of the general stores, the framerate didn't change at that spot.

Then again, I've been near the fountain in Aberdeen with only one person, and it did slowdown. So, in some places, it's not really so dependent on the NPC load. You have to remember that this game is constantly streaming the life routine animations for any number of the 1000+ cast of characters off the disc at any one time plus handling a lot of other little tracking tasks, so seeing slowdown in Shenmue II DC was not at all uncommon (some places worse than others). Still, it generally wasn't the NPC load that affected slowdown... it was usually something to do with the environment.

And this engine is supposed to be sophisticated? What ever the reason for slowdown may be, it certainly has a basis and shows the limitation of the hardware in one way or the other.

I took a good long look at it. I would not dismiss anything from a technical standpoint just because of its style, but that whole engine pushes so little in the way of texture quantity (in relation to our comparison) that many polygons simply look flat-shaded. Overall the engine is quite impressive, but it does so while balancing other elements ahead of texturing. I mean, Sonic Adventure 2 runs at 60hz too (full frame pro-scan even), but the two games are worlds apart in how concentrated they are with textures. And worlds apart in geometric complexity too... in Jak's favor, of course.

Why are we suddenly comparing it with Sonic Adventures 2? To my knowledge, we were comparing it to Shenmue, because you wanted 'us' to present a game that looks significantly better than Shenmue. I agree with Marconelly with Jak & Daxter, as the fact that the game runs at a smooth 60 fps with awesome lightning, as good texturing and a seamless world that's being streamed without visible loading, validates to it being graphically better in probably every single aspect. Sonic Adventure 2 of course has nice texturing, but that's a completely different game and I honestly haven't played it long enough to truly compare. That game was never apart of the discussion though to beginn with, so I find it quite amusing why it was brought up in the first place.

As for texturing. I really wish I had the time to find screens that would do the game justice but I really can't. It's evident enough though to have it running beside me and considering the insane amount of geometry the engine is pushing, I personally think Naughty Dog did a wonderful job. You can read up on various reviews (IGN comes to mind, GameSpot's review is locked to members only unfortunately) of the game that will show that many people at the time were impressed by the texturing and all the other aspects and put it over many PS2 games graphically at the time.

If you ever have the time to play the game one more time, I suggest you check out one of the cave sceneries. In there, you will see various light sources all responsible for making textures light up differently accoarding to where you're standing. This can be seen fairly impressive in the spidercave. Also once there, take a look at the detail on the rocks and on various objects - then take into account how much geometry is going on in that single area. ;)
 
IGN comes to mind, GameSpot's review is locked to members only unfortunately)

well, only because I care :oops:

GS review excerpt:

Naughty Dog has spoken at length about the graphics engine for Jak and Daxter, and the results are impressive. Built from the ground up to use both vector units of the PlayStation 2, the game engine used for Jak and Daxter can draw an inordinate number of polygons. As mentioned earlier, the horizon stretches on forever, and anything you can see you can travel to as long as the proper items have been collected. In some of the earlier outdoor levels, the sprawling terrain can cause the frame rates to fluctuate wildly, but it's rarely detrimental to the gameplay. The character design for the game is reportedly the result of focus testing aimed at achieving a look that would appeal to both Asia and North America, and the result is pure Disney. And like Disney's productions, fluid animation brings Jak and Daxter to life. Though just a handful of moves are included in the game, watching Daxter try to hold on to Jak while he's engaged in combat is a sight to see. Special effects are at a premium in virtually every area of the game. Heat blurring is used extensively throughout the game as well as real-time lighting. Considering the PlayStation 2 has long been criticized for its lack of texturing abilities, the texture variety and clarity in Jak and Daxter is staggering. The high-resolution textures feature vivid colors with no hint of pixelation whatsoever. The game's story is told via real-time cinemas complete with full facial animation that is perfectly synched with the dialogue. Easily one of the PlayStation 2's most visually impressive games, Jak and Daxter sets the bar for what is expected of future games on the console.
 
For an engine that came out over 3 years ago, yes it IS impressive ;)

It still hasn't been bested AFAIK not even by a game that hasn't even been out yet :LOL:
 
What do you think is so superior about the Shenmue engine? I can name a couple of engines on the Dreamcast that are better. JSR features cel-shading, the main character casts a shadow volume, buildings cast shadow volumes, and it features seamless loading areas. Quake 3 Arena features fully light-mapped environments, specular maps, and real-time tesselated curved surfaces.

In comparison, the Shenmue engine only pumps out a lot of single-textured polygons and the main character casts a shadow volume. What Shenmue has over other games is an attention to detail. But what is detail? It's just texture mapped polygons. Games just use their polygons in different ways. For example, Jak and Daxter uses its polygons for a huge draw distance and to make everything rounded. Shenmue in comparison has a much shorter draw distance and displays a lot of varied objects. There's no reason why Naughty Dog couldn't reduce the draw distance to make everything look as detailed as Shenmue.
 
For an engine that came out over 3 years ago, yes it IS impressive

It still hasn't been bested AFAIK not even by a game that hasn't even been out yet

:rolleyes:
So hows that wool over your eyes working for you?
 
I'm not talking about only graphics. I'm taking about the immersion ;)

In other words what's being managed by the game engine.

Oh and my computer monitor isn't covered in wool :p ;)
 
Well if it's immersion you're talking about, well I was immersed in Ultima 7 far more than Shenmue. Some people have been immersed in Everquest enough to ruin their lives. Heck, I've even heard of people dying from playing counterstrike for over 24 hours straight.

Anyways, this thread is about graphics.
 
There are, just take a look at your average Hollywood movie It depends on lighting.
Under real-world lighting conditions, most of the illumination is not primary but light reflected from walls, the sky, and other things. Such light is diffuse and thus it will not create speculer highlights. Photo shootings, videoclips and such will also use large white screens to scatter the light coming from the spotlights.
Some Hollywood movie settings will, however, use direct illumination to create high contrast images. This is very common in night shoots... Thus, the image above has such strong specular highlights intentionally, because of the harsh lighting that Stahlberg has used.
That's just what I was thinking, but thanks for clarifying.

So what about that picture of older woman that I linked to on top of this page? Are those specular hilites or not? That face looks quite different than faces on some other pictures that don't have highlites like that at all. Perhaps they utilize those hilites only with an appropriate lighting setting?
 
Perhaps they utilize those hilites only with an appropriate lighting setting?

Perhaps... They could be using maps from homomorphically factorized BRDFs that are keyed to and loaded when entering particular environments or rooms...


And one other thing about Jak and Daxter that really impressed me was the sophistication of the IK structures, and vertex morphing of the characters themselves (Daxter in particular). While they weren't "realistic" (which is fine by me), the attention to detail (down to animated UVs for pupils which so many game characters lack) and depth of expression make them far more significant standouts than whether some character "looks more realistic"...
 
Not to mention J&D doesn't repeat some 5 or so different textures a hundred times across the screen like a certain other platformer 8)
 
To elaborate more on the sophistication of the Shenmue engine, you have to consider what it's presenting and how that differs from other games. Think of it in a "Making of Shenmue" kind of way.

AM2 wanted to make a highly immersive world that suspended realization of common videogame trappings. Instead of an action or adventure game where believability goes only as far as the stage for that particular scene has been set, Shenmue allows the seamless transitioning of an always running, dynamic system.

Think back to MGS2 or a Final Fantasy game. Imagine your adventure has you cross paths with a character such as a guard. What would happen if you decided to just watch that guard? Would you see him get tired from his shift eventually and leave his post? Would he go home, via a fully working transportation system to his fully modeled house/apartment? Would he ever stop to eat? Does he have a name and a backstory? Do any of these factors even matter?

Of course not, because the believability of your situation is scripted for that one scene. It's like dressing a stage for a single act at a time in a play, and that's quite acceptable for most story-based adventure games.

Shenmue presents a simulation of a real world for Ryo's exploration and adventure, though. You could follow that shopkeeper you happened upon as they dusted their antiques and sat behind the counter writing on forms, to when they closed up shop for lunch and headed down the street to the burger shop, to when they sat down on the bench and ate that burger, to when they got up again and headed back to their shop to re-open it, and to when they finally closed for the day and started walking out to their apartment at a nearby complex (or perhaps to the bus station down the street to go to their home in another part of town.) The engine transitions between all these actions as you watch it, without pausing to reset the stage or skip over the continuity parts where doors have to be opened, bodies re-oriented from moving to standing to bending and sitting into chairs. And this is happening for hundreds of characters all the time, as morning turns to night, and as clear weather turns rainy and back again.

The time of day (and date) is dynamic and the weather unscripted, and the characters life routines are influenced by this. For example, at a certain point in the storyline progression, the flower shop girl Nozomi will head off to Sakuragoaka Park where she'll get harassed by some thugs. But, she'll go to this park only on a day it isn't raining (makes sense), so this event won't take place until this progression has been reached and it also so happens that the weather is fair. If you're trying to meet up with certain characters to question them, you need to know where they are and at what time they'll be there, taking into account conditions. Some people stay nearer to their houses during inclement weather.

The whole map is laid out to be more than just scenery. People have family, acquaintences, jobs, and homes. The convenience store is clerked in shifts by different characters for different days. And although that kind of stuff is just content, it's compelling nonetheless within the framework of what the engine is presenting. The Mishima family, consisting of the mother Fusayo, the eldest daughter Mayumi, and the youngest daughter Megumi, all share a facial resemblence like families do; they live in a house you can visit in the neighborhood down the hill from yours, Sakuragaoka. The mother has a complex life history I won't waste time going into here (you could read it on the Shenmue Passport disc, get clues in-game, or read the strategy guide), but her daily routine starts her at home at 8:00AM, shopping to Yaokatsu Produce, to Komine Bakery, to Tamura Quality Meats, to Mary's Patches and Embroidery Shop, to Uokichi Seafood, and then back to her porch by 1:45PM. She goes into her house at 3:00PM, returning outside to gossip with some other ladies from the neighborhood thirty minutes later by the telephone booth. She leaves them back for home at 7:00PM, and then returns outside to sweep her porch from 7:50PM to 8:30PM. And Mrs. Mishima is just some random character you'd never even have to meet if you didn't want to during your progression through the story.

The engine isn't just throwing out a bunch of texture mapped polys. It's allowing all these things and all this movement to take place around you. If you stayed within one part of the map, you could see random characters wandering in during the day and behaving differently with individual daily routines, without the game ever stopping for a loading screen. So, it's seamless in that way as opposed to Jak and Daxter's seamless terrain loading engine.

Ryo throws off multiple shadows that deform correctly even over complex terrain when near multiple light sources. When walking and stopping on a sloped surface, he rebalances his weight more on one leg realistically. Same with stairs. The game knows how many times you've looked at different stuff and how many times you bumped into things (all in the Shenmue Passport stats). It probably has the most spoken dialogue of any game ever, allowing almost any character to tell you the directions from where they presently are to almost any location you happen to be asking about. To accomodate so much speech, Shenmue employs real-time lip synching. When you see Ryo's hand reach out for something, you can see the intricate lines and the veins beneath his skin flex. Even the animals - the dogs, birds, and cats - have life routines. The development of one particular kitten is tied into the diet of food and attention you give her. When it's raining, you can stand under the awning of a building and watch the rain drip off infront of you and splash on the ground.

The indoor locations are lit very convincingly for mood. Outside, the time of day and position of the sun are reflected in lighting, coloring, direction and length of shadows, and lens flare.

The game dynamically mixes background music, ambient sounds, conversation speech, and localized sound effects by distance from source.

The pathfinding AI for the characters will have them back off, readjust and wait, or line up single-file at congested doorways and destinations. Body parts bend, twist, and flex at joints with real-time interpolation between animations. Instead of having to return to a very limited set of keypoint animations to execute a new behavior, a character can turn their neck, body and eyes to face you for conversation even if they're kneeling or working on something else.

The game creates its conversations from dialogue sets in real-time to avoid repetition. So for instance, if you happen to ask the same question to the same person more than once, they'll usually have multiple ways of delivering the same piece of information. Ryo will have multiple ways of responding, sometimes questioning more specifically, sometimes responding with the curt "I see", or sometimes thanking the person for the help. The generated responses depend upon the mood and tone of the conversation, and Ryo's face animates dynamically to match the emotion of the speech with eyes that squint and blink, a mouth that can frown or smile, and his brow that can furrow. There are more subtle touches to the facial animation then that, and all of the other 1000+ characters match their face to the tone of the conversation to some extent too - beat the Lucky Hit stand owners several times in a row, and they'll acquire a sadder expression when they say something like, "Here. Take your money!"

The game doesn't even fully express the flexibility of the engine and tools, though. During development, AM2 showed numerous tech demonstrations regarding the games' Magic Time and Magic Weather systems. There are videos of the camera pulled way above the neighborhood of Sakuragoaka where you watch the sky and trees change with the passing of the day and seasons. Leaves fell from the trees, snow built up on the ground and melted, and the trees eventually became full of foliage again. Since your story progresses from day to day, you can't time lapse things to see it all. But, if you play long enough in the story, you will see holiday decorations put up around Dobuita for Christmas, a man dress in a Santa suit to advertise the shops, and certain characters wearing traditional Japanese Komonos for the New Year's holiday.

You better believe that one of the largest and most technically proficient development teams ever, with a budget high in the tens of millions, and a development duration of several years would be able to put together some sophisticated toolsets, development processes, and an engine for this project. They created techniques for facial modeling and animation that allowed them to make a cast of hundreds of unique looking characters which could all react and animate their expressions in real-time. The characters are individually clothed and skinned and they react to their daily duties and the environment with seamless animation transitions. Sure, MGS2 has some sweet looking animation - the developers were able to have motion-capture actors play out the pre-scripted cut-scenes, and they could interpolate with some IK during the in-game stuff to give everything amazing smoothness. But for Shenmue, not every scenario is a pre-dressed set on the game's stage... instead, everything has to look natural as your character moves among a dynamic world where progression isn't so linear, and where there's a certain level of freedom and randomness to what you'll encounter and the behavior you'll see. Making all that animate like a real-life town, of which you are free to move about, was quite the challenge.

In summary, the game had to push enough geometry to convey realistically-styled locales with dozens of individually modeled characters at once. It had to be able to load them dynamically while you played for new people and new behavior mixing. It had to push enough texture information to allow booths and stands and different storefronts all over the place within cities and nature environments. All of that had to be highly interactive enough at times to allow you to knock those booths over and break them apart. The items on top had to react properly to physics and fall over appropriately. The engine had to allow changing time and weather and seasons, and it had to track how all that influenced character behavior. It had to allow lots of sound mixing. It had to allow large panaromic shots as well as micro-scale detailing. It had to allow for expressive human and animal faces to deliver the emotion of the scenes in the story. AM2 had to make quite the impressive engine to cover such daunting requirements, and the result is the Shenmue engine.

Remember, this game was made and shipped into the hands of hundreds of thousands of gamers in Japan back in 1999 before the PS2 was even out yet, let alone before games like MGS2 or Jak and Daxter would ever see completion (and games like Silent Hill 3 aren't even out yet.) This was done on 1998 Dreamcast hardware, not on fifteen month newer and 50% more expensive PS2 hardware. Don't be too surprised to see some of the more impressive engines of the future come out of SEGA and AM2.

Phil:
Why are we suddenly comparing it with Sonic Adventures 2? To my knowledge, we were comparing it to Shenmue, because you wanted 'us' to present a game that looks significantly better than Shenmue.
I used Sonic Adventure 2 DC as an example only to point out that Jak and Daxter's cartoony theme and 60 fps refresh was not fully responsible for its minimally textured look. Sonic is cartoony as well (though, not trying to achieve the exact same look, of course), but it's concentration of texturing is strikingly higher than J&D. However, you can just as easily substitute Shenmue back as the example, for it's just as concetrated with texturing variety on virtually every new surface as Sonic Adventure 2 DC is (the textures certainly aren't as pretty though, since there so much more stuff to do.)
I agree with Marconelly with Jak & Daxter, as the fact that the game runs at a smooth 60 fps with awesome lightning, as good texturing and a seamless world that's being streamed without visible loading, validates to it being graphically better in probably every single aspect.
Come on now... Shenmue just throws around so much more texture variety that it really isn't a comparison in that one regard. Whether or not its cartoony, Jak and Daxter's surfaces just look much more pastel and smooth than the busy surface patterns in Shenmue. Looking out across distant views shows that farther geometry may not even be using texture maps at all after a certain visibility distance.
It's evident enough though to have it running beside me and considering the insane amount of geometry the engine is pushing, I personally think Naughty Dog did a wonderful job.
I definitely agree here.
You can read up on various reviews (IGN comes to mind, GameSpot's review is locked to members only unfortunately) of the game that will show that many people at the time were impressed by the texturing and all the other aspects and put it over many PS2 games graphically at the time.
There's nothing technically wrong with the textures that are there. I'm just saying they are very sparsely distributed by comparison.
 
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