Hm interesting, sounds like it has some sort of moral choices going on and how your decision might affect the outcome? I like the idea of seeing the world in more shades of grey than black and white, kinda got those feelings from Naruto Shippuuden even though it's just an anime.It's not mature in the sense of "sex and violence", it's mature in its outlook and the value it places on lives. There aren't many murders committed on screen, and Ryo himself isn't a killer - he is unambiguously a good guy who will have to face up eventually to the fact he wants to kill someone. Will he do it? I guess we'll find out now ....
Most video games claim to be "adult" but are decidedly adolescent in the way they present themselves. Shenmue is about an adolescent who is becoming an adult.
Shenmue 3
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It's not healthy to view crowdfunding as preorder. There's always the chance of partial delivery or it not being quite what was pitched.
Having said that. Shenmue! Backed!
Not sure where else to put this after the Shenmue 3 Kickstarter thread that I kickstartered in the games sub forumum was locked for no clearly understandable reason (except that the world hates Freedom and also Shenmue), but ...
..... Shenmue 3, the game that people said would never exist, has now broken the kickstarter record for video games and passed 6 million dollars in pledges despite being on only two platforms.
I think that's pretty special, given that the last game came out 14 years ago for the doomed (but sexuality redefining) Dreamcast console (also co-designed by Yu Suzuki).
Gamers are dicks, but sometimes we can pull off something that 99% of the world deems ridiculous and lock-worthy.
..... Shenmue 3, the game that people said would never exist, has now broken the kickstarter record for video games and passed 6 million dollars in pledges despite being on only two platforms.
I think that's pretty special, given that the last game came out 14 years ago for the doomed (but sexuality redefining) Dreamcast console (also co-designed by Yu Suzuki).
Gamers are dicks, but sometimes we can pull off something that 99% of the world deems ridiculous and lock-worthy.
The NAOMI Arcade Hardware for FerrariF355 being identical to the console hardware in Dreamcast helped far more in making that game appear "perfect"
I should know, I not only bought it day one but I also played the big sit down arcade simulator that gave you a report card at the end. Was very fortunate to have found an arcade/pizza/kids entertainment center that hosted such an expensive looking arcade machine.
FerrariF355 was also limited to only using one car model type...that helped out greatly as well, plus Ferrari's bloated ego of hoping to have a game featuring only their cars to prevent comparisons.
That said Yu Suzuki is more like from the old school of working for one company and one hardware at a time designing/programming. SEGA-AM2 division (like it's other divisions) were dedicated to the hardware they made games on.
I seem to have missed something...Yu Suzuki stated Saturn was "wrong" and "tried to stop it?" And "Dreamcast was Yu Suzuki's favorite console?" Wth??!!
Let's make some things clear...Sega's Amusement divisions (that traditionally were working at the time on Model 1 and Model 2 Arcade hardware) were tasked to also use Sega Titan arcade hardware which was basically an Arcade use Saturn for lower cost compared to Model 2, Arcade game machines which included a cartridge as a way for Arcade operators to replace games in a similar fashion to the older Neo Geo arcade hardware.
Therefore it only made perfect sense if Sega's AM teams personally handle Arcade to console ports by "reprogramming" as well as the fact that it..wasn't anything new as way back in MegaDrive/Genesis and Sega System 16 days stuff like this happened as well as making original console only games like Sword of Vermilion.
I have the print magazine interviews of Yu Suzuki on Sega Saturn where he explicitly corrects any mistranslation of his words as journalists are know to do and clearly state that his feelings on Saturn were that it required above average programmers and did not denigrate the average programmers of the time.
As far as saving Saturn...Sega's Saturn Japanese release of Virtua Fighter IS what catapulted sales in that region where Saturn was actually dominating sales. It was the North America region that didn't understand nor appreciate Virtua Fighter and where that game didn't have a phenomenon following like in Japan as VF2 was dominating Japanese arcade circles.
Obviously Sega owns it's own Arcades in Japan but the gaming public understood the game and there was and is a phenomenon following there.
Saturn also was ahead of PlayStation 1 at least until 1996 with a huge lead that it tool Square's Final Fantasy VII as well as premature leaks of Dural hardware, Katana, Black Belt as well as blunder statements like "Saturn is not our future" nearly two whole years before Dreamcast retail launch in Japan.
Many Japanese third-party who were quoted as stating that it was too soon to replace Saturn. You see in Japan, even if PSX was starting to lead, Saturn games were still selling amd evolving thanks to the under-utilized 4MB expansion ram cart.
Also keep in mind the damage the 32X caused not just for consumers but for Sega themselves juggling way too much hardware.
Plus Sega of America relying on general gamer print magazines instead of copy/pasting "Sega Visions" into "Nintendo Power" and no surprise Saturn games got nearly no coverage or really harsh coverage where the average gamer either didn't know about Sega's games or didn't trust Sega.
First: the Sega of today has been making the Ryu Go Gotoku aka Yakuza series which are based on Shenmue elements and have nearly indulged in updating almost all of the elements minus certain noticeable ones...the chance of "unlikely" is debunked.
Specially if people intentionally avoided playing the Yakuza series which were selling good in Japan while the North America region saw a slow decline and cancelled to nearly cancelled localizations.
Eidos/Core actually were shown in print magazines to have been working on Saturn far earlier than they were on PC and PlayStation hardware.
Upon release of said game it was the gamer print magazines who decided to claim the PlayStation was the best version even if it wasn't a complete fact.
And worse, it was Sega's lack of recognizing the value of the third party game and not going after Eidos/Core for contracts or at least securing a Saturn sequel...that's business moves and blunders
The claim that Sony had the deeper pockets might make sense but Sega was also posting losses thanks to 32X and Saturn not selling so well in the North America region.
Shenmue 1 and 2 didn't have moral choices. Ryo was investigating his father's murder.
The game actually used a lot of "detective and investigation" elements blended in with mundane stuff and mini games and more.
"Sexuality redefining??"??!! How is Dreamcast a...?
Shenmue wouldn't have existed if Yu Suzuki's team hadn't started work on it on Saturn hardware...
The Dreamcast may have been a nice console but as a Sega console it was not the proper follow up to Saturn. Because it should have included an evolutionary dual SH4 arrangement as it was originally rumored to be.
Back in 1999 DVD players averaged at least (and I could be wrong here) over $800.00 USD or $600.00 USD...the PlayStation 2 when launched in Japan was actually released at a $400.00+ price point for a loss because in reality the console should have retailed at least at $500.00 to $400.00 yet the U.S. launch price was lower.
Now keep in mind the same happened with Saturn/PSX as both were launched at $400.00 USD equivalent retail prices while the U.S. launch price was lower more as a reactionary fear of Sega's higher priced Saturn and later the fear that in the U.S. $400 PS2 would have been too much...contrary to reality which was selling out and gamers were selling consoles on online auction sites at more than quadruple the retail cost while the Dreamcast was $199.99 and less and was not selling like hot cakes.
I understand your enthusiasm as a Dreamcast fan...or Shenmue fan...but Sega made other hardware and their dev teams make other games.
Sega's dev teams strength came from development on a single platform hence once Yu Suzuki manages to make Shenmue 3, he better get started on Director's Cut remastered remakes of Shenmue 1 and 2.
The first F355 with the 3 screens had 4 Naomis in it. The Twin version was the same as the Dreamcast (AFAIK).
Some of the talks you have with Shenhua and some other people have some aspects of moral choices. You can talk to an old man in the harbour of Kowloon who gives you riddles.
Not quite identical, as the arcade boards had twice the main memory, video memory, and four times the audio memory. Also, the early Naomi 1 games used carts (Later systes would load from GD-ROM into a 1GB massed pool of RAM as a virtual cart).
There was a key meeting before the Saturn came out when Sega high-ups were discussing the hardware. Yu Suzuki said it was the wrong hardware and wanted to make a more powerful and 3D focused console. Bzzzt, Yu got overruled!
According to Yu Suzuki, in a presentation last year, he was asked what his favourite console was. He said it was the Dreamcast, because of his involvement with it's development. It's straight from his mouth (via Mark Cerny translation).
Yeah, that Statement at E3 1997 was like shooting yourself in both feet at once, by firing your head out of a cannon.
Global release in 1999 with continued support of the Saturn until that time in US and Europe would have been getter.
SoJ made Sega of America release the 32X. They didn't tell them at that time they were developing the Saturn, so 3rd parties didn't know they were developing for a dead platform. Way to go, SoJ!
Dream Curious.
There was never a dual SH4 DC in development, afaik. Simply running the CPU faster with beefed up cooling would have been the way to go - SH4 was designed to scale up to 400 mHz and Dreamcasts are good overclockers.
I still own just about all the Sega stuff! I still have two Saturns (in case one breaks!).
Lets hope so!
Everybody knew the Saturn was in development way before 32X. 32X probably started development sometime in 1994.
Sony is helping with the ps4 development, while Shibuya Productions will be in charge of the PC version, with Neilo in charge of the actual game development. I think Suzuki has found a way to worry less about porting and debugging both versions and can just focus on actually creating the game.
IIRC, SoA didn't know about specs or release dates for the Saturn in Jan 1994. Developers that Sega were pitching the 32X at certainly didn't.
SoA actually wanted to work with Silicon Graphics, and began developing a platform based on SG processors back in 1993 or early 1994, iirc. SoJ knocked that back, and so SG shopped it to Nintendo instead. Boom, N64!
I mentioned I was fortunate to find a local arcade I drove to in a sacred quest to basically play the big booth box sitdown simulator FerrariF355...iirc it was pricey to play...noy sure if it was three of five USD to play but yes it had three screens, force feedback steering, recaro like seats with speakers on head rest, clutch and gearbox and it gave you the report card of how you did. Don't know if I managed to save that card somewhere.
Yes I was very much aware it used three NAOMI arcade hardware boards to help render the additional panoramic monitors.
Still it's basically the same hardware, same CPU, graphics chipset, sound...only obviously more ram due to using the cartridge like PCB rom as the GD-Rom was later on implemented.
Iirc SEGA-AM2 did the console version meaning they had to make sure the GD-ROM ram management...no need for additional panoramas or boards.
They may seem that way but to the "average reader" it may give them the impression that moral choices have to do with doing good or bad things...that is why I don't believe it was a complete moral choice system.
No.
Please give me a source to the pre-Saturn release discussion where Yu Suzuki stated this.
Way back when the name of "Dreamcast" was revealed, many gamers didn't understand the name and did not like it or think it was a cool name. Note this is a reference to the fact that Sega didn't have one console or even that Dreamcast was their best console which it definitely was not.
Of course fanatical Dreamcast fans will make these claims or have made them yet you never hear about despite how big of a Sega fan they were about how they actually played _____ Sega game on _____ platform...it's always rosy coloured memories of Dreamcast.
The dual SH2 CPU arrangement wasn't original to Saturn as it was also present in the 32X. The solution was an intelligent and forward looking engineering and programming solution which displayed effective benefits in Saturn's 3d polygon games later on and specially in the "Project Berkeley" prototype game. As well as Sonic Jam's little 3d engine Sonic menu and Nights as well as other 3d and 2d games.
Sega's dev teams had amassed tremendous experience and expertise and btw neither Model 1 nor Model 2 were practical nor easy to "dev for" platforms.
Hitachi's SH4 did not need to be "overclocked" such beliefs dismisses the reality of the time.
A dual SH4 arrangement was rumored in print magazines be it speculation allegation or not but that would have made more engineering sense as it would not have made the console "hard to dev for" as a lot of that F.U.D. was on Saturn and mainly in U.S. print gamer magazines.
There was a great deal of FEAR in making the Dreamcast a print magazine media pleaser or even then developer pleaser while in reality it only helped to make the console weaker and less than what it could have been.
The included modem was a waste of money and developer time which is revealed years later as both PS2 and GameCube did not standardize it and it tool an ultra wealthy MS to make network interface card standard.
A global launch isn't easy or practical yet the reality is despite all the fumbles the DC was launched too soon and the Japanese launch and first couple years were not handled properly there.
Virtua Fighter 3 was not the Arcade smash hit like VF2 was which is why VF1 and later all variation of VF2 including Fighting Vipers and Last Bronx did well in Japan.
It's also rather shameful that the majority of so called Dreamcast lovers only remember Soul Calibur as it's best fighting game.
I still have old EGMs I do remember the "rumor" section mentioning upcoming hardware but precise specs were not stated.
That sounds good...didn't Yakuza get a PC version?
Hmm a lot of contracts go on behind the scenes...while there may have been some validity in there it doesn't mean Sega should have pursued SG at all...
The early 1990s to 1995 were dramatic in how hardware developed.
Still the biggest problem was 32X....blaming Sega Japan or Sega America is foolish as both were doing counter-intuitive projects.
There should have been a more unified leadership and less panicky (about all of a sudden Sony!! Oh teh noes Nintendo!!) Focus and attitudes and stuff like 32X which ate resources and funding should have been diverted to a more focused Saturn that like I stated could have been a non backward compatible cartridge and CD-Rom format console...(looks at Titan arcade hardware) plus have had a Sega Official print magazine for North America...iirc Great Britain had a Sega fan magazine...while Japan had about four variations per month. (Btw when DC for US came all those efforts were too little, too late, you cannot reverse the previous damage)
Which btw did actually become easier to dev for as time went by otherwise we would never have seen all those Japanese games released after 1996 (which was it's third year in retail)
D
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I just want to say this sentence is epic. Also, I've made a drinking game based on the amount of times you use the word "reality". I've booked myself into rehab in two weeks time
Lost in the mists of time.
Yu Suzuki didn't rate the Saturn hardware, it wasn't what he thought a 3D console should be. And he should know.
You're dismissing reality.
There are lots of us who've been with Sega since the 1980's, all the way from the arcades and the Master System through to the bitter end, in 2002 (when Sega stopped making games and after which no more Sonic games were ever made).
Off the top of my head, there's Me, and ... Yu Suzuki. Dreamcast is still his favourite console, and he developed on Megadrive, Saturn and Dreamcast. God bless you, Yu!
Didn't need to be doubled up on either, but you're suggesting that!
Early US and Euro DC's overclock to about ~ 230 on air, and 270 with additional cooling. SH4 was designed to scale up to 400, though not necessarily on that process. More power and cooling would have been needed to clock higher, and that would have added cost and changed form factor. But then again, so would double up on CPUs and avoiding the Saturn's bus contention issues (some kind of shitty Master / Slave configuration on a badly shared bus).
But it's entirely within the bounds of reality. It's really been done. By real people. By heroes. Probably in real bedrooms and basements! (And by nothing more sophisticated than manually soldering different timing crystals in).
It would have made it "harder" to dev for, and Sega didn't want that. Yu Suzuki didn't think it was a good idea either, for a console trying to gain mass acceptance.
That was VF3TB, but all the dweebs couldn't handle a dodge button.
There's total validity to it. Even Tom Kalinske confirmed it!
There was an official DC mag in the UK. Pretty good too, had demo discs and everything.
Anyway, we're veering far from Ryo and Lan Di. And I don't want this thread to be locked (again).
Shenmue 3 is coming, and the pain of the last 14 years has been washed away, like memories on a gin fueled evening!
I just want to say his sentence is epic. Also, I've made a drinking game based on the amount times you use the word "reality". I've booked myself into rehab in two weeks time
The pre-production Katana hardware board required a type of heatsink with a type of heat pipe made of aluminium.
It's not hard to dig up old print magazines or websites that have this information.
He's asking to magically "overclock" the 200Mhz SH4 to 400Mhz under the belief that it would actually be feasible or realistically possible even in his "if" global 1999 launch.
Note that the pre-production PS2 hardware used individual heatsink fans for the EE and GS and such prototype board was dated to be complete as an engineering sample chips in late 1998.
Can we then assume using his post that Sony could have delayed the PS3 so that CellBE gets ffanned at 65nm and get overclocked to 6.2Ghz?
Lost in the mists of time.
Yu Suzuki didn't rate the Saturn hardware, it wasn't what he thought a 3D console should be. And he should know.
You're dismissing reality.
There are lots of us who've been with Sega since the 1980's, all the way from the arcades and the Master System through to the bitter end, in 2002 (when Sega stopped making games and after which no more Sonic games were ever made).
Off the top of my head, there's Me, and ... Yu Suzuki. Dreamcast is still his favourite console, and he developed on Megadrive, Saturn and Dreamcast. God bless you, Yu!
Didn't need to be doubled up on either, but you're suggesting that!
Early US and Euro DC's overclock to about ~ 230 on air, and 270 with additional cooling. SH4 was designed to scale up to 400, though not necessarily on that process. More power and cooling would have been needed to clock higher, and that would have added cost and changed form factor. But then again, so would double up on CPUs and avoiding the Saturn's bus contention issues (some kind of shitty Master / Slave configuration on a badly shared bus).
But it's entirely wthin the bounds of reality. It's really been done. By real people. By heroes. Probably in real bedrooms and basements! (And by nothing more sophisticated than manually soldering different timing crystals in).
It would have made it "harder" to dev for, and Sega didn't want that. Yu Suzuki didn't think it was a good idea either, for a console trying to gain mass acceptance.
That was VF3TB, but all the dweebs couldn't handle a dodge button.
There's total validity to it. Even Tom Kalinske confirmed it!
There was an official DC mag in the UK. Pretty good too, had demo discs and everything.
Anyway, we're veering far from Ryo and Lan Di. And I don't want this thread to be locked (again).
Shenmue 3 is coming, and the pain of the last 14 years has been washed away, like memories on a gin fueled evening!
Fabricating or altering reality of console history with rose coloured glasses is a problem.
Ignoring all the other games Sega's dev teams made after 2002, ON PlayStation 2 is another.
i don't question how long you have followed Sega's products but the lack of admiting and knowledge and lack of evidence on quotes is a problem with your opinions.
any CPU or GPU could be re-fabricated up to certain limits and clocked to scale higher than what originaly was finalized or retailed.
Yu Suzuki may have made his "Dreamcast fan service pleasing statement" but he didn't work nor was he, his teams or any of the Sega internal dev teams, limited by only being known for Dreamcast as if that was the only or best Sega console or even a success.
A lot of those Saturn programming "issues" were solved...or rather if the console was really a "nightmare to program for" (that is an actual quote repeated in 90s U.S. print magazines btw) then games like the the Capcom and SNK ram cart games or even Final Fight Forever, Grandia, Radiant Silvergun, Panzer Saga, Daytona CCENetlinkEd aka the one that wasn't rushed, Burning Rangers, and many more Japanese third party games would either not exist...been impossible to make or would have been bad games.
The fact that 32X, and Saturn used a type of SMP set up where the second CPU waited for the first does not mean (specially in nanoseconds) that four years...later it would have beem history repeating "nightmare to program for" broken record.
The internal senior devs at Sega were definetly involved in each time there was any secret contract going on...most of that information has been discussed all over the internet.
The bitter end even in hardware never really happened...consoles yes...then Sega wouldnt have gone for those closed PC parts based Arcade systems like Lindberg, Ringedge, etc.
I happen to have a couple of Sega-AM2 PS2 games some of which were never localized outside Japan and were made after 2002.
Gamer awareness, gamer media coverage and general gamer apathy is what helps said fans to feel like certain things never existed.
I don't care to "correct" you but making statements like Saturn was a mistake or was problem is downright ignorant and based solely on Western-Gamer-Media consumption.
The only place where Saturn massively failed was outside Japan and theres plenty of sources and factual material to reference.
Did the Dreamcast magically deserve "success" after the damage 32X caused and Saturn's lack of promotion?
Did having finally a print magazine officially representing and marketing Dreamcast equal gamers feeling obligated to buy not taking into account the other consoles and games being released at that time and ignore the annual loss postings going on for more than four years?
Note again, Saturn was making Sega a profit in Japan, not just for Sega but third parties...the negative attitudes were based in North America region...hence it is and was no surprise Dreamcast was selling poorly in Japan yet doing "decent" in U.S.
The bounds of fabricating these chips have consequences and repercussions because there were physicalnand cost limitations plus that modem was eating up cost, developer time/code...that was a true mistake.
Shenmue 2 was stopped from being localized in the U.S. by Microsoft's contract deal...yet Sega stopped localizing other games as well when pulling the plug...which is something dedicated Sega fans should know right?
i have the Japanese and European Shenmue 2...used to have the Xbox version until that console stopped reading discs in 2006/7 and went to the garbage.
Bought those games day one also, along the console and renting a Japanese DC in Dec/January 1998/1999.
Buying new was more support than the pre-owned fans ever did.
I've been desperately searching for Yu Suzuki stating absolute negativety on Saturn both on old print magazines and recent articles where there is proven sourced credentials and not some fanatical blogger site.
I kept finding his old quote i referenced yet as far as "anti-Saturn" or "Saturn = wrong/mistake" i instead found quotes from Bernie Stolar who was just NOT the credible person to believe on technological or engineering or game development.
He had bad policies when he worked at Sony regarding Japanese games and RPGs which he was instrumental in initially preventing from being localized to outside Japan PlayStation which he repeated on Saturn...
Basically you confused Yu Suzuki, (responsible for leading the solution to not just mastering Saturn hardware but increasing the number of games made and making the prototype Shenmue on Saturn!!) with Bernie Stolar who barely worked a fraction of time as marketing rep and NA regional executive who still believes he didn't hurt consumer confidence.
Furthermore if adding a second SH4 set up is so wrong then Sega would never have made their dual SH4 based Hikaru and NAOMI 2 arcade boards.
Not to brag...i was also lucky to play Airline Pilots triple screen (Naomi 1) Brave Firefighters (Sega Hikaru) and even more rare got to play extensively Virtua Fighter 4 at a multi-entertainment complex including expensive Arcade machines like dual Sega SuperGT with the custom moving sitdown feedback system. Also VF3 which i had rare chance to find worthy opponents as most were clueless or gravitated to Tekken, SF2/3, or DOA2, etc. That place was in the greater Boston Massachusetts area. Lots of opponents to find but unfortunately closed and has been replaced elsewhere.
MK and DOA have a block button.
Brush up on how Genesis was profitable in N.A. region, SegaCD was not, 32X was not and how Saturn Japan was highly profitable but N.A. was not and how Sega of America mismanaged or didn't understand the importance of print magazines (Sega Visions) during Genesis to Saturn and how that hurt DC more along with desperate price cuts, timing etc and consider that if Sega-AM2 had reprogrammed Shenmue 1 and 2 on PlayStation 2, we would have had at least five or eight Shenmue sequels by 2009.
Also do try and get both PS2 VF4 (CD-Rom) and PS2 VF4 Evolution (DVD-Rom) note that the latter is nearly arcade accurate to Naomi 2.
Finally it was in 2001 when NAOMI 2 was made as arcade hardware...by then Sega used Dual SH4 @ 400Mhz along dual CLX2s PVRchips.
Hence those overclocker fans don't understand process nodes and steppings and are just burning chips.
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I remember reading an article years ago that mentioned that during the Saturn era the president of Sega of Japan was too fixated to his Japanese way of thinking and he wasnt listening to Sega of America or Europe. Because of him Sega was doing the right steps in Japan but totally wrong steps outside of Japan which ignored the demographics and commitments that Sega made to their fans in US and EU.
Also one other thing, Saturn's success in Japan was exaggerated to some point. It was doing well but probably not as great as we thought.
Sega was shipping lots of units and reporting shipped units but not units sold. I remember that a lot at the time. There was a large discrepancy between shipped and sold in Japan.
Also one other thing, Saturn's success in Japan was exaggerated to some point. It was doing well but probably not as great as we thought.
Sega was shipping lots of units and reporting shipped units but not units sold. I remember that a lot at the time. There was a large discrepancy between shipped and sold in Japan.
Suzuki's team did one of the first two demos of Dreamcast, you can see it here
