Shader Compilation on PC: About to become a bigger bottleneck?

[Flappy Pannus]

It's probably a little too early to judge based on that given the game very likely runs at higher settings than the original release which runs at 4k checkerboard / 60fps on the PS5.

...with original' settings a 1060 was targetting 30fps at 1080p.

People thought that chart was bonkers when it was released, and I hope so too - but even in that, the 6800 XT was recommended for native 4K/60 at Ultra - and according to AMD, it's not even getting that.

Yeah, "Ultra" could have some massively inefficient, or offer visually impressive enhancements over Original - despite Sony not displaying it in released screenshots so far, who knows. All I've seen so far is slightly better reflections/shadows, which still could be draining if they're not optimized - but then that doesn't explain the relatively dismal 1060 performance they're reporting at PS4 settings.

4k FSR UQ is about 18% more resolution than 4K CB so we should expect a slight performance penalty there plus an unknown penalty from the higher settings.

That's a 6800XT though, considerably more powerful than a PS5. And GoW is not a native PS5 title to boot.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Lol. Judging with benchmarks that arent really a match between platforms is one thing. Judging a game or port that hasnt been released yet is another.

The 'benchmarks' are coming from AMD and Sony, so far. No one is 'judging' it, hence 'early indications' and what 'I hope for'.

I realize it's your thing on here, but no need to put on your favourite platform defending shoes right yet.

 

[PSman1700]

The 'benchmarks' are coming from AMD and Sony, so far. No one is 'judging' it, hence 'early indications'. I realize it's your thing, but no need to put on your favourite platform defending shoes right yet.

I see, youre one of those.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473922149543034882

 

[Flappy Pannus]

I see, youre one of those.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473922149543034882

Pathetic.

 

[PSman1700]

Pathetic.

Exactly

 

[pjbliverpool]

...with original' settings a 1060 was targetting 30fps at 1080p.

People thought that chart was bonkers when it was released, and I hope so too - but even in that, the 6800 XT was recommended for native 4K/60 at Ultra - and according to AMD, it's not even getting that.

Yeah, "Ultra" could have some massively inefficient, or visually impressive enhancement over Original - despite Sony not displaying it in released screenshots so far, who knows. All I've seen so far is slightly better reflections/shadows, which still could be draining if they're not optimized - but then that doesn't explain the relatively dismal 1060 performance they're reporting at PS4 settings.

That's a 6800XT though, considerably more powerful than a PS5. And GoW is not a native PS5 title to boot.

Yeah I'd forgot about that chart. Interesting to note though that a 1070 is recommended for 1080p 60fps which is twice the performance of the 1060 recommendation of 1080p 30fps so certainly one or the other is a way off the mark. Essentially here the 1070 is being recommended for PS4 Pro settings yet its a GPU with roughly 50% more capability in PC terms. So I agree that doesn't paint a positive picture, though Pascal being an older architecture, now likely is suffering from optimisation issues. If for example it takes a 6800 or 3070Ti to match the PS5 output though (which is roughly equivalent to the 1070 : PS4P comparison) then there's definitely a quality issue with the port.

 

[Remij]

Yeah, we'll have to see. There's still plenty of factors at play though. The game isn't finished, potential driver optimizations to come, don't know the effect of higher quality settings... nor really how those settings scale with resolution (could compound the performance impact of those settings drastically) ect.. The recommended settings chart could also be very conservative estimations.. and it's possible the game is more optimized for current Nvidia GPUs (It's a DX11 title after all)


But yea, I agree that early indications aren't the best they could be.. We'll just have to see.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Yeah I'd forgot about that chart. Interesting to note though that a 1070 is recommended for 1080p 60fps which is twice the performance of the 1060 recommendation of 1080p 30fps so certainly one or the other is a way off the mark. Essentially here the 1070 is being recommended for PS4 Pro settings yet its a GPU with roughly 50% more capability in PC terms. So I agree that doesn't paint a positive picture, though Pascal being an older architecture, now likely is suffering from optimisation issues. If for example it takes a 6800 or 3070Ti to match the PS5 output though (which is roughly equivalent to the 1070 : PS4P comparison) then there's definitely a quality issue with the port.

Yeah and the CPU recommendations don't make any sense either, one of the reasons I didn't think too much of it at the time, AMD releasing their own benchmark which paints it in an even worse light though had me revisit it.

Who knows, Nixxes sure as heck made an impact on Horizon Zero Dawn in a short period (and indications are there may be more patches to come in 2022), they could be in the midst of helping this too if it needs it. GoW is likely similar to HZD in its a game supremely tuned for the PS4's architecture and wrings ever ounce out of it so it's portability to different architectures may be sub-optimal. It was known as the #1 title to test your PS4 Pro's susceptibility to sounding like a jet-engine for a reason.

 

[Krteq]

Godot open source engine now supports async shader compilation + caching via "ubershader"

• godotengine.org - Dev snapshot: Godot 3.5 beta 1
• GitHub - godotengine/godot - [3.x] Shader goodies: async. compilation + caching (ubershader approach)

 

[DavidGraham]

God of War on PC suffers no shader compilation issues or long loading times, the reason? It's DX11 not DX12.

 

[Remij]

God of War on PC suffers no shader compilation issues or long loading times, the reason? It's DX11 not DX12.

We'll see about that.

 

[DegustatoR]

Kinda surprising that it's D3D11 tbh.
May also be a reason why the game perform nowhere close to PS4 h/w on "original graphics" preset (~45 fps on 580/1060 in 1080p).

 

[DavidGraham]

why the game perform nowhere close to PS4 h/w on "original graphics" preset (~45 fps on 580/1060 in 1080p).

PS4 renders only at 30fps.

 

[DegustatoR]

PS4 renders only at 30fps.

PS4Pro is the only console which has unlocked fps mode, and it renders in 1080p 45-60 fps which is about on par with 580 in this PC port - roughly a 50% faster GPU than what is in PS4Pro.

 

[pjbliverpool]

PS4Pro is the only console which has unlocked fps mode, and it renders in 1080p 45-60 fps which is about on par with 580 in this PC port - roughly a 50% faster GPU than what is in PS4Pro.

The 1060 generally renders above or near 60fps according to the latest DF video though so that seems closer to what we'd expect.

What GPU are we comparing the PS4P too? The mid gen consoles came out while I was having hiatus from gaming hardware so I never paid much attention. I've heard it compared to an RX 470 though which according to TPU a GTX 1060 is only 20% faster than.

 

[DegustatoR]

The 1060 generally renders above or near 60fps according to the latest DF video though so that seems closer to what we'd expect.

1060 is shower than 580 here so I really doubt that it renders above 60 while 580 is at ~50.

 

[Svensk Viking]

I have not seen these posted here but these results also show the 1060 and 580 averaging at 48 and 51 FPS at 1080p Original settings, with the 580 having the tiny lead.
https://www.computerbase.de/2022-01...istungsverlust_fuer_die_bessere_grafik_update

They claim that their benchmark scene is more demanding than most parts of the game, and it can be watched on page 2. They do point out they used the Nvidia 497.29 driver due to time constraints.

 

[pjbliverpool]

1060 is shower than 580 here so I really doubt that it renders above 60 while 580 is at ~50.

Here's the relevant part from the video. It goes on to compare the 580 and 1060:

 

[Rootax]

God of War on PC suffers no shader compilation issues or long loading times, the reason? It's DX11 not DX12.

How do we know that's the reason ? Some dx12 games have no problem, some dx11 have... IMO it's just devs doing a good job.

 

[Remij]

How do we know that's the reason ? Some dx12 games have no problem, some dx11 have... IMO it's just devs doing a good job.

Yes, this! It's not helpful to just blame an API in this situation. For example Capcom's RE Engine games are very well optimized (RE2R, RE3R, DMC5, RE7/8) and exhibit no shader compilation stuttering in DX12 in my experience.. lots of other DX12 games too.

Plenty of DX11 games have shader compilations stutters, so it's not like they don't exist.. It's completely down to developers and the amount of optimization and care put into the product at the end of the day. I appreciate that some developers are behind the curve when it comes to DX12/Vulkan experience and it requires more effort from the developer to work properly, so seeing some issues in games isn't unexpected.. but that should change over time.

I haven't played God of War on PC yet (I will this weekend for sure though) but I'm very glad to hear that it's a very solid port. DX11 works well enough for their needs and they smartly took advantage of it. NXGamer mentioned in his video that he has spoken to the developers and they've already confirmed they are working on patches for some of the loading issues that were present in his experience.. so overall I'm just REALLY happy that Sony and their teams/port studios are taking it seriously and continually work to improve the games past launch.. which is more than we can say for some developers. The PS Studios teams have all been very active with the communities as far as I've see, listening to issues people are having and directly communicating with them. That's always so refreshing to see.