Senjo No Valkyria (Valkyrie of the Battlefield) : Best Cell shading ever?

[3dilettante]

I can't remember what exactly I did on my first playthrough.
I tend to grind pretty heavily, so my units were all very high level at that point.
I buffed out someone (possibly Alicia) with the set of defensive orders that would buy time between Selvaria's fire, which has a slight lag time.
I might have used smoke one one of the long stretches, but the goal was to get a foothold on one camp out of her line of sight.

After that, a shock trooper or was enough to hold the flag against limited enemy attempts to take it back, and I could summon up troops to move to the next flag.
Selvaria would helpfully yield ground, for some reason.

There's also a slight cheap factor I used in one take-down, where Selvaria had moved to the left rearmost part of the map, and I had a set of troopers behind some sandbags and a scout on a lower tier in front.
I was able to take potshots with a scout from the lower level where a few bullets would just barely go over a railing and hit her in the head.
Her shots, like all AI shots and return fire shots, aimed lower and hit the railing.
I could then spray with trooper from the sandbags, rinse and repeat.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There's also a slight cheap factor I used in one take-down, where Selvaria had moved to the left rearmost part of the map...

Hmmm, she did that with me too. First attempt after posting I cleared the level, pretty much as planned. Ran Alicia up the right, secured the bases, then brought in troops and cleared the left. Every Imp was killed. Selvaria took tot he top left. In the end I rolled up the Shamrock. Torched her to get her to turn around. Alicia headshotted from behind (the Undodgeable Shot is undependable, and if you just end up shooting Selvaria front on, you won't do enough damage between turns while she's busting up Alicia. It'd be a fairly drawn out stalemate unless you got lucky, I think). Adn then the Shamrock could follow up with some serious damage to finish her off.

I've finished the game now. The best level by far was against General Jaeger. The limited moves and requirement to capture the bases meant real tactics were essential. Alicia couldn't do her immortal-victory thing and buffing meant not enough moves to clear out the camps. I made use of most options - Lancers (Lann wasted the Lupus with his cray damage!), Snipers, Edelweiss and smoke grenades, Rosie trooping through some alleyways and using her flamer to clear ducked Imps from behind. It was very satisfying and shows what the game could have been.

The final mission had some aggravating moments. Particularly trying to hit the thing at the very, very back. It was listed as having 1000 hp, so using a sniper was the last thing I'd think to try, but that was the way to go. Unbuffed too.

Overall it was a good game, but could have been better (for my tastes). Some aspects were very pointless. The weapon development was good in theory, but more often than not the royal weapons given as rewards were the better choice. Some upgrades meant nothing on the field. Seems every sniper rifle took 2 shots from afar or a single headshot, so upgrading that made no difference from one rifle to the next. One you could secure headshots it was pointless. Then of course the tanks were often underpowered relative to soldiers so developing them meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. The mortar was excellent, and when you did have to move the Edelweiss to prevent defeat by its destruction, the mortar would come in very handy.

 

[3dilettante]

Alicia headshotted from behind (the Undodgeable Shot is undependable, and if you just end up shooting Selvaria front on, you won't do enough damage between turns while she's busting up Alicia. It'd be a fairly drawn out stalemate unless you got lucky, I think). Adn then the Shamrock could follow up with some serious damage to finish her off.

True, undodgeable is unreliable, and even with awaken potential it's maybe 1/2 to 1/4 of the time it will happen.
When at uber-level, though, it is possible to have a lot of chances to burn through in the first turn.

I've finished the game now. The best level by far was against General Jaeger. The limited moves and requirement to capture the bases meant real tactics were essential. Alicia couldn't do her immortal-victory thing and buffing meant not enough moves to clear out the camps.

This is one of the few maps Alicia can't obliterate in one turn.
That's what Jann with the best lance, awakened potential, and some in-battle saving is for...
When not power-gaming, this battle is more satisfying.
One of the more fun things I did for kicks was clear a base by having my tank plow through and knock people out of the perimeter.

(Jann is similarly useful, and quick turn cancels even more cheaply so, in the 2nd to last battle.)

The final mission had some aggravating moments. Particularly trying to hit the thing at the very, very back. It was listed as having 1000 hp, so using a sniper was the last thing I'd think to try, but that was the way to go. Unbuffed too.

The first time I played this level, I didn't do very well, as I didn't quite know what to do.

One thing I did do was use the "concentrate fire" order on a lancer to take out the armored towers from across the stage.
Nothing quite like a rocket launcher with the accuracy of a sniper.
I knew how to beat this better on later playthroughs.

Overall it was a good game, but could have been better (for my tastes). Some aspects were very pointless. The weapon development was good in theory, but more often than not the royal weapons given as rewards were the better choice. Some upgrades meant nothing on the field. Seems every sniper rifle took 2 shots from afar or a single headshot, so upgrading that made no difference from one rifle to the next.

In general, I think your squad's best weapon is the headshot, an innovation that hasn't caught on anywhere else.
Another problem is how arbitrary a boss kill or flag capture is.
A captured flag doesn't change the fact you're in the middle of an armored division.
A clean-up phase would have limited a lot of the scout-rush mentality.

Armor in general has oddly limited mobility. It's borderline WWI-type tactics, given how short a distance they'd move.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Perhaps the huge discrepency in movement amounts is what really messed up squad dynamics? Well, even on an even footing the rating system would promote rush tactics. Still, if a Scout couldn't advance 2, 3 or even 5x with double movement, as fast as a trooper and still fell any enemy with headshots and any tank with a buff, making the trooper's firepower redundant and the lancer's utterly inaccurate weaponry pointless, they wouldn't have been the only class to use 90 times out of a hundred. The lancers upgrade looked really useful when I got it, but in the end it wasn't because they couldn't move up front where needed quickly enough and still have enough movement to get back to safety. Plus they only aimed slightly upgrades defeating the whole point of the weapon! Then again, how many games with lots of variation have ever got even mildly balanced classes? There's always some methods/options that utterly eclipse others, at least in terms of raw efficiency.

 

[patsu]

Hmmm, she did that with me too. First attempt after posting I cleared the level, pretty much as planned. Ran Alicia up the right, secured the bases, then brought in troops and cleared the left. Every Imp was killed. Selvaria took tot he top left. In the end I rolled up the Shamrock. Torched her to get her to turn around. Alicia headshotted from behind (the Undodgeable Shot is undependable, and if you just end up shooting Selvaria front on, you won't do enough damage between turns while she's busting up Alicia. It'd be a fairly drawn out stalemate unless you got lucky, I think). Adn then the Shamrock could follow up with some serious damage to finish her off.

Since I only focused on the right side, it's more convenient for me to pin her down on the right side of the map. After 2-3 turns of chasing her, I noticed that she'd avoid my Edelweiss consistently. That's why I sent my tank left and then turned around to fire smoke grenade to cover my troopers on the right. Selvaria would linger on the right side, especially if I sent in soldiers to feed her.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get Edelweiss to open fire on Selvaria directly. It may kill my soldiers instead (Didn't have the super accurate scope equipped), plus the impact would blow away the smoke cover. So it was flanking via team work plus awakened potential that finally brought her down for me.

Overall it was a good game, but could have been better (for my tastes). Some aspects were very pointless. The weapon development was good in theory, but more often than not the royal weapons given as rewards were the better choice. Some upgrades meant nothing on the field. Seems every sniper rifle took 2 shots from afar or a single headshot, so upgrading that made no difference from one rifle to the next. One you could secure headshots it was pointless. Then of course the tanks were often underpowered relative to soldiers so developing them meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. The mortar was excellent, and when you did have to move the Edelweiss to prevent defeat by its destruction, the mortar would come in very handy.

From what the GAF people said, the enemy weapons are more powerful but has shorter range.

Edelweiss was my greatest weapon. When loaded appropriately, you could hit someone from half way across the map (but you have to weaken your defense). Together with the sniper class, it helped to make the battlefield safer.

Armor in general has oddly limited mobility. It's borderline WWI-type tactics, given how short a distance they'd move.

Yes. The firepower and range made up for it if it's loaded and positioned appropriately though. The mortar makes the most difference.

Perhaps the huge discrepency in movement amounts is what really messed up squad dynamics? Well, even on an even footing the rating system would promote rush tactics. Still, if a Scout couldn't advance 2, 3 or even 5x with double movement, as fast as a trooper and still fell any enemy with headshots and any tank with a buff, making the trooper's firepower redundant and the lancer's utterly inaccurate weaponry pointless, they wouldn't have been the only class to use 90 times out of a hundred. The lancers upgrade looked really useful when I got it, but in the end it wasn't because they couldn't move up front where needed quickly enough and still have enough movement to get back to safety. Plus they only aimed slightly upgrades defeating the whole point of the weapon! Then again, how many games with lots of variation have ever got even mildly balanced classes? There's always some methods/options that utterly eclipse others, at least in terms of raw efficiency.

They can keep the Scout's movement range if the advanced weapon was gimped. Sometimes I used the Scout to well... scout out an area. The large movement is very handy. If they are not so strong, a Scout should not be able to capture a flag easily. I used Engineer to scout too, if I know there are mines ahead.

But if they want to cut out the recon phase from the battlefield, then yes, they should do something about the Scout's incredible foot range.

 

[3dilettante]

I have no particular quarrel with the idea that lightly-equipped skirmishers are useful in fast movement and quickly taking lightly-defended locations.
The capture-the-flag aspect basically cuts away the other part of combat that would have counteracted this--because you don't need to worry about holding anything you take.

Perhaps this is because the game seems to have an interest in moving things along very quickly, without making a casual player get to the next plot point only after a marathon playing session.

The levels themselves seem to follow this.
As far as scale goes, it's actually a pretty small area most of the time, which means that tanks either have the ability to run through the entire stage in a turn, or they are artificially constrained.
The same goes for anti-tank weaponry and snipers (although old-style anti-tank weapons were pretty inaccurate).
A defense against a tank-rush would be an interesting lancer level.
It doesn't happen, so, meh.

This also unfortunately rules out a number of combat scenarios.
There aren't many defensive engagements in the game, which would have highlighted the higher grenade capacity of engineers and shocktrooper sturdiness.
Similarly, there aren't many assaults on heavily fortified areas, which those two would have excelled at.
I don't count levels with pillboxes with explosive barrels parked behind them, or capture the flag that makes them pointless anyway.
Heavily-defended is something of a misnomer in this game.

There's no stealth, so it means that scouts need to be unreasonably effective and hardy so that they don't die in the cramped stages.

Minefields are actually pretty silly in this game, since most of the time it's a matter of stepping around the mines you see plain as day. If they were invisible and it took an engineer to find them (better yet, they were random), it would be more challenging and nerve-wracking. Of course, this would be beyond frustrating.

Snipers, being gimped and not having interception fire ability, almost never have the area-suppression ability a sharpshooter has in actual combat.
The one side-mission where there is no cover except grass is wide enough that your troops are somewhat forced to keep their heads down until you countersnipe the snipers.
The battle with Selvaria with interception fire at range is a cartoonish glimpse at what should happen long range suppression fire.

Another weakness, as I alluded to earlier, is that this game tries to shoe-horn in a battlefield situation that is highly parallel into the format of set-piece combat.
I think it was a refreshing attempt, but there are some cheap corners to the system.
In real life, enemy defenders don't wait on your turn and don't sit like dunces while you deploy, and you can't insta-end your turn to avoid getting shot.
A cleanup phase would really dampen the Alicia rush, because as good as she is in an assault, most of her bonuses evaporate if she has to defend her territory, or at least it's not so crazy that she can take 5 flamethrowers to the face.

edit:
It's also true on your side.
In real life soldiers don't take turns moving and try to work in concert.
The compromises the designers took to make this "work" leave room for improvement.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

From what the GAF people said, the enemy weapons are more powerful but has shorter range.

Yes, especially the sniper rifles. But I meant the ones the Princess awarded at the end of a battle.

Edelweiss was my greatest weapon. When loaded appropriately, you could hit someone from half way across the map...

Terribly inaccurate though, unless you want to waste CP on improving aim. Whereas a scout can run halfway across the map and then headshot from point-blank range . Plus you'd get a one CP kill from the scouts more often than not, whereas the tank shells weren't so hot for taking down infantry.

Yes. The firepower and range made up for it if it's loaded and positioned appropriately though. The mortar makes the most difference.

Actually to be fair to the tank, it's main purpose in my games was as an interrupt. You could position it on a enemy thoroughfare and the moment it's opportunity fire hit, they'd stop running. It's a shame the firing arc to catch Imps was as narrow as it was. They could oft sneak past without the Edelweiss getting 'em. Other than that, I would sometimes move Edelweiss up to offer cover, certainly earlier on.

 

[patsu]

Yes, especially the sniper rifles. But I meant the ones the Princess awarded at the end of a battle.

I didn't use any of that. XD
Have forgotten about it !

Terribly inaccurate though, unless you want to waste CP on improving aim. Whereas a scout can run halfway across the map and then headshot from point-blank range . Plus you'd get a one CP kill from the scouts more often than not, whereas the tank shells weren't so hot for taking down infantry.

There are highly accurate scope that will ensure a hit most of the time despite the distance (It's like a sniper tank).

Actually to be fair to the tank, it's main purpose in my games was as an interrupt. You could position it on a enemy thoroughfare and the moment it's opportunity fire hit, they'd stop running. It's a shame the firing arc to catch Imps was as narrow as it was. They could oft sneak past without the Edelweiss getting 'em. Other than that, I would sometimes move Edelweiss up to offer cover, certainly earlier on.

Yap ! Edelweiss and Shamrock are great as a deterrent to charging enemies.

I also agree with 3dilettante's suggestion to include a cleanup/hold turn. But they must also implement different level of difficulty.

If they make the game too "hard core", it may turn the bulk of RPG guys away. Then I'll have another Yakuza 3 on hand. I'm gonna be p*ssed.

EDIT:
VC2 peek:
http://www.siliconera.com/2009/08/07/a-glimpse-of-valkyria-chronicles-2s-branching-class-system/

Valkyria Chronicles 2 has more classes than Valkyria Chronicles. Way more classes. There are 35 types of military units you can control in the sequel.

The diagram shows two branching choices for Avan, one of the game’s new heroes. It isn’t clear what each class offers, but a screenshot shows parameter boosts like extra hit points and defense for one track.

 

[patsu]

Valkyria DLC coming next Thursday:
http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/02/1...yria-chronicles-dlc-4-is-releasing-next-week/

The DLC features six different missions, all involving a challenge issued from the members of Edy’s Detachment. Jann will smother you with details on how to take on a slew of tanks at once in the Lancer mission, Marina will coldly cue you for a stealthy sniper shootout – until she sees a remarkably cute fox, at least – and Edy herself will brief you on an epic shocktrooper fight of massive proportions.

All in all, the six missions include challenging goals based on mastering the following classes:

Scout
Shocktrooper
Lancer
Engineer
Sniper
Tank

In addition, you aren’t limited to only using members of Edy’s Detachment! You can field any of your personal favorites from Squad 7 that you’d like to use.

The DLC will go live next Thursday, February 25th! Before then, just as with the first three batches of DLC, expect a special blog spotlight or two that will go into even more detail about what the upcoming DLC is all about!

 

[Archgamer]

Cool! I'm downloading it tonight. My VC knowledge is rusty. It's been awhile since I last played it.

 

[patsu]

I have totally forgotten about the DLC. Will download it today. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[patsu]

First Sign Of Valkyria Chronicles 3?
http://www.siliconera.com/2010/08/23/first-sign-of-valkyria-chronicles-3/

Sega registered the domain name valkyria3.jp at the end of May. Previous Valkyria Chronicles games used the domain names valkyria.jp and valkyria2.jp. Currently, the valkyria3.jp site is not available to the public and requires a password to access it.

The net must be sleeping. No one saw it until yesterday ?

 

[Archgamer]

You guys better buy VC2 on PSP like I am. How well it sells will determine if we can see it again on PS3. That's what they said.

 

[patsu]

Huh ? I was not going to buy vc2 on PSP so they bring it back to PS3.

EDIT: At least I never left. Sega is the one who took the series away to PSP. Don't expect me to buy the PSP version just to get them back. If they can't see the value in Valkyria Chronicles, then I have nothing to say or do here.

 

[Rolf N]

You guys better buy VC2 on PSP like I am. How well it sells will determine if we can see it again on PS3. That's what they said.

That's not how it's supposed to work. Look how much good it did to the Tales Of series to switch platforms with every entry. The series is near irrelevant now, and it started much, stronger than Valkyria. If Sega wants to go down the same road anyway, we all lose.

The VC2 demo was such a bummer too. I don't like how the battlefields are broken up into tiny segments. I don't want to give Sega the impression that this is the sequel I wanted.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Yep as far as I'm concerned they need to either release number 3 on PS3 or they need to DIE!

 

[patsu]

I thought they would release a PSP version on top of a PS3 version; not instead of a PS3 version.

 

[ban25]

The PSP makes sense for the home market. Whether that's true elsewhere, who knows?

 

[patsu]

I don't mind a PSP Valkyria game. They can't expect me to buy the PSP game before releasing a PS3 version though. They are two separate investments from my point of view. I much prefer the PS3 version because I like to game on a big screen, or at least a monitor -- despite its higher price.

 

[patsu]

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/09/01/sega_valkyria_teaser_site/

There was an spike in Valkyria Chronicles 3 rumors recently when, coinciding with Famitsu's announcement that a new strategy game would be unveiled shortly, it was discovered that Sega had registered the Valkyria3.jp URL. But those rumors came to an end when the Famitsu announcement ended up being a new Suparobo game.

Well start up the rumor engines again. Sega's got a new teaser site, and this is what it looks like ... [Dom dom dom duh !]