SEGA's NEW ARCADE HARDWARE...

[pjbliverpool]

But would that CPU be able to keep up with the console CPU's?

Sure the rest of the system will be more than capable of overtaking console graphics but that CPU is very low end.

Even accounting for the ability to programme to the metal, this can't be equivilent to more than an E4400 in a PC (2Ghz C2D, 800Mhz FSB, 2MB cache).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But would that CPU be able to keep up with the console CPU's?

For the games you'd get on the arcades, yes. There's no great need for AI, complex simulation, or fancy shennanigans in an arcade game. It's all eye-candy over a simplistic engine. Personally I'd have thought a super system with visuals above and beyond anything anyone had experienced before would provide more arcade revenu than a generic look that people can wait to come out on the consoles. Back in the day, a principle reason for playing arcade machines was that they looked so much better that you could get at home. It was like going out for a meal instead of rustling something up in the kitchen. Now SEGA are offering little more than a TV dinner that you've already got in the freezer, why spend anything to play those games? It's utterly uneconomical. And with online gaming there isn't even the multiplayer aspect advantage.

 

[grandmaster]

The point is that there is no worthwhile arcade market any more outside of Japan, so there's simply not the budgets available to create ultra expensive coin-ops any more. Even the bankable games with overseas appeal are created on low-end hardware now: witness Street Fighter IV.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's a chicken and egg argument, but would the arcades be more profitable if they were higher-end, or are they low-end because they're not profitable? I wouldn't be surprised if the latter. Modern consoles make the arcades nigh-on redundant, and I don't know who plays them. But people have expressed a preference to arcades over home consoles even for games you can play on both. Is there any way to get the pundits back in? Or is it doomed? In which case, why even have arcades? Why not just box up a console version of your title?

What exactly are SEGA trying to achieve with this hardware?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It's a chicken and egg argument, but would the arcades be more profitable if they were higher-end, or are they low-end because they're not profitable?

The chicken and egg argument is only valid if we assume that the chicken or the egg at some point died, which is what happened to the arcade market.

Sega, Capcom and a few others tried to revive the market with more powerful and more visually impressive games but it did nothing to stop the death of arcades in virtually all places but Japan. And even in Japan, arcades have mostly died other than mostly specialized arcade centers that pull a significant portion of their revenue from glorified Photo Booths.

You can go into many Sega Arcades in Japan and easily a whole floor or two can be dedicated to these photo booths. While the arcade games are limited to half a floor or even just a corner.

And if it isn't photo booths then quite often it'll be some sort of gambling game. Horse Racing, etc...

It's certainly quite a bit different than the hayday of Arcade gaming in Japan, where you could find an Arcade (even if it was a small dinky mom & pop type of arcade) every other block.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I can agree with that reasoning (not that I know what the arcade state is anywhere in the world) which raises the question, why bother? If the arcade is dead because people prefer consoles and PC, why create any arcade at all? Just nostalgia? Some CEO's at SEGA like Arcades and persist in them as a hobby? What's the reasoning behind this investment instead of using a console? We all know other arcades have used consoles before.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I really like that idea...

Arent many Arcade machines supposed to cost like 30k or some ridiculous sum in the past? Point being with off the shelf PC hardware you could build the monster machine in your specs for much less than that, even if it was 5k.

I'm sure theres no market for it though, or somebody would do it..

Hell, I'm an advocate/wisher that there was a neo-geo style niche (home) console today..something that maybe cost 7-$800 with 80, 90, even $100 games, but that was worth it.

I would pay upto $900~$1000 for a super highend console, with the same concept as NEO-GEO, that had 5-10 times better capability and more impressive/better games than other consoles of the same generation i.e. Xbox360/PS3 or Xbox3/PS4. It could even use PC components if all or most of the bottlenecks of PC architecture is removed (PCI-Express Bus, Windows OS). I'm thinking of a tighter cleaner architecture that make the best use of off-the-shelf components.

 

[Nano]

As a fixed platform it looks like a monster to me. The CPU is a bit of a surprise, but then again knowing what the Geforce 8/9 can do with vertices and stuff in itself, still amazing possibilities.

 

[V3]

I can agree with that reasoning (not that I know what the arcade state is anywhere in the world) which raises the question, why bother? If the arcade is dead because people prefer consoles and PC, why create any arcade at all? Just nostalgia? Some CEO's at SEGA like Arcades and persist in them as a hobby? What's the reasoning behind this investment instead of using a console? We all know other arcades have used consoles before.

I think it's cheaper to just used cheap off the shelf components rather than trying to reconfigure console hardware. I think they just change hardware because the old components are getting rare so more expensive to procure. Also they changed to Embedded Windows OS from Linux. Probably Linux driver is not up to scratch.

In Japan control gimmick is king. Graphics hasn't been a selling point for a very long time even in arcade. Wii and DS managed to bring what was arcade only at the time to Home. Also look at the success of Dance Dance Revolution or Guitar Heroes. So if trend continue the innovation in arcade technology besides graphic might still be the next big thing.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Well, SEGA at least in Japan still runs quite a few Arcades. Although as I said earlier, most of the space is taken up with everything but what we would consider arcade machines.

Also one of the big things the last time I went there was Strategy arcade games. It uses a rather large tabletop area as the control surface with a large display at the other end. And usually in 2's or 4's. It's kind of hard to explain. The machines take up a massive amount of space however and looked fun to play. But the arcade was always deserted when I went by.

Regards,
SB

 

[SG79]

I think it's cheaper to just used cheap off the shelf components rather than trying to reconfigure console hardware.

Not according to Namco, which has been using PS hardware based arcade boards since 1994. The PS3 based board even had the XMB intact but the game naturally loads off a HDD.

 

[grandmaster]

I can agree with that reasoning (not that I know what the arcade state is anywhere in the world) which raises the question, why bother? If the arcade is dead because people prefer consoles and PC, why create any arcade at all? Just nostalgia? Some CEO's at SEGA like Arcades and persist in them as a hobby? What's the reasoning behind this investment instead of using a console? We all know other arcades have used consoles before.

I think because the arcade market is still viable in Japan. First bite of the cherry is in the arcades, and from there you basically have a ready-made PC version. From that you can port to the consoles.

Arcade versions can also help build awareness outside of the Japanese market.

 

[SG79]

I think because the arcade market is still viable in Japan.

Otherwise the VF series would've met its demise a while back. From VF4 Final Tuned to VF5 R, the games make the most money in the arcades.

 

[helvetica bold]

actually i expect a new VF soon. whenever sega releases new hardware they come
out with a new VF or house of the dead..

Im interested in what AM2 will do with racing on the system.

 

[KyoDash]

Well I wouldn't expect a new VF like VF6 on their RingEdge hardware, more like the next hardware they use closer to the PS4 and XB720. Historically Sega have always debuted a new Virtua Fighter on hardware considered to be close to next-gen or next-gen compared to the current batch of consoles. Exceptions being the Model 2 and 3 in which hardware was still progressing at a faster state than it is now.

I would love to see a new Fighting Vipers game, or a Scud Race 2, Daytona 3 on the new board. Maybe they could make a proper Sega Rally 3, rather than the westernised version we got.

They need to make 360 and PS3 versions though, these consoles are really lacking in terms of Arcade games conpared to PS2 and XB1.

 

[V3]

The guy that head Sega Rally development is not with Sega anymore. So Sega Rally 3 is as proper as you can get.

I actually want something like Manx TT. Maybe Sega can work together with Polyphony for TT type arcade game with Manx TT bike controller.

 

[blakjedi]

Arcades in the US are now principally tied in with food sales (Chuck E Cheese, Jillians, Dave and Busters) to create entertainment complexes for folks who arent kids... the money is in co-locating all of someones entertainment expenditures and interests in one location. So you can play pachinko, pacman, virtual golf, a short 3d movie/ride and whatever you'd like to eat in a single place. Those places are profitable and can and should have the highest end equipment the industry can produce... If Sega/Namco/Midway sought to motivate that outgoing entertainment crowd they would give them best audiovisual experiences available. Between those three enterprises there might be 500 locations nationwide so the overhead for producing arcades is not that high....

 

[Dargakis]

As I see it: with gran turismo 3, home consoles for the first time actually surpassed the 60fps aracade cabinets with gorgeous graphics. The first game to beat the arcade at it's graphics.
That was one fine looking game. After this, I did not see too much difference in arcade graphics to be honest.

This new sega hardware has great potential.
Afterburner, did it come out?
And the fps, fifth phantom saga?

 

[helvetica bold]

i stole this from
http://www.digitalfoundry.org/blog/?p=506

Hardly a powerhouse, and definitely geared to cheap production, the board initially looks like a downscaled version of the Europa-R hardware that ran its most recent Sega Rally coin-op, which boasted a similar dual core CPU and an nVidia 8800GT, albeit with a whopping great 4GB of RAM.
So what is the mystery nVidia hardware in the RingEdge board? The 384MB video RAM package gives the game away - nVidia only make one card with that memory configuration and that would be the 8800GS, recently rebadged as the 9600GSO: In short: a poor man’s 8800GT, let down somewhat by a 192-bit bus and limited RAM, but still a pretty useful piece of graphics hardware.
In terms of the RingWide platform, that’s much the same, albeit running with a 2GHz Celeron and a bargain-basement low end ATI GPU (we’re not sure which, but being that it has only 128MB of RAM, it’s going to be a really awful chip). No SSD for the RingWide either - its games are crammed onto 8GB compact flash cards.

 

[Akumajou]

I would pay upto $900~$1000 for a super highend console, with the same concept as NEO-GEO, that had 5-10 times better capability and more impressive/better games than other consoles of the same generation i.e. Xbox360/PS3 or Xbox3/PS4. It could even use PC components if all or most of the bottlenecks of PC architecture is removed (PCI-Express Bus, Windows OS). I'm thinking of a tighter cleaner architecture that make the best use of off-the-shelf components.

I believe that there is a problem with that as the NEO-GEO was not really 5 to 10 times better than the Genesis and SNES...

I believe Sony has been practicing the concept of NEO-GEO ever since Sony provided Namco with System 11 based on PS1, then going to SYSTEM 246 based on PS2 and finally with SYSTEM 357 based on PS3.

The biggest difference here is that Tekken 6 is the only title confirmed in a cabinet and other Arcade game makers like SEGA chose to use general purpose PC components instead of custom hardware like they used to.

Its really too bad, imho had SEGA (and even Capcom) chosen to also use SYSTEM 357 we might have seen some ramping up of games at the arcade, I personally believe that the PC component route is not a good idea.