Saturn ( Off topic in Xbox 2 thread )

[Crazyace]

Just thought I'd reply in a new thread as this was pretty off topic

For 3D, Saturn was better in some areas like programmable effects, image integrity (less problem with warpy and seamy polys), and max resolution. Meanwhile, PS was better in others like ease of procuring performance and effects like transparencies. Which one was more "powerful" simply comes down to which balance of strengths and weaknesses appealed most to you.

Yu Suzuki felt a good programmer in assembly could sustain well over 80% of the combined performance of the system's dual SH-2s, when the developer took the time to do careful work.

I think that there wasn't really any programmability involved with the saturn, unless you count the vdp1 -> vdp2 blend/priority modes which weren't necessary on the PS1 due to there only being a single graphics chip. The warping on the Saturn in 3D was just as bad - just in a different way ( The only real correct effects tended to come from the VDP2 generated rotated playfields.. )

I'd agree with the 80% comment from Suzuki-san, but even then it wouldn't match the performance possible from a good programmer using the GTE/MIPs well on PS1.

 

[Deadmeat]

...

PSX couldn't possibly do this even if it started smoking while trying.... End of story.

 

[Evil_Cloud]

Let me add that the Saturn version of Shenmue did NOT use ANY Ram expansion card. VERY impressive code.

 

[Phil]

as impressive as it may seem, screenshots are just screenshots. How well did this build work, how was the framerate?

Offhand, I can't see how this is more impressive than what was achieved in Tomb Raider? :?

 

[notAFanB]

Offhand, I can't see how this is more impressive than what was achieved in Tomb Raider?

there is an set of footage (the above actually) which show the beta for the Saturn at the end of Shnmue 2.

The framerate is soso from the footage, but maybe Sonic can elaboragte a lot better on that last point.

 

[Qroach]

I really wish deadmeat would stop his attacking of all things sony, as it's getting REALLY OLD!

 

[Fox5]

Let me add that the Saturn version of Shenmue did NOT use ANY Ram expansion card. VERY impressive code.

Doesn't look all that impressive to me, other than that it resembles the final shenmue we got. It is very low poly and very blurry.

Maybe some better pictures, but from what I remember of the video on my shenmue 2 disc, it didn't look all that good. For 1998 I suppose it looked good though, but eventually efforts on the psx surpassed it.

 

[LogisticX]

Play Vagrant Story. Excellent particle effects and texturing, with really well done models. One of the nicest looking games of the 32bit gen... and to top it all off, it actually exists on the market.

 

[Tahir2]

I really wish deadmeat would stop his attacking of all things sony, as it's getting REALLY OLD!

I agree. I think the mods need to gently ask him to desist.

On topic: The Saturn was a beast to program for and few developers had the time or skill to give it that kind of special attention.

Some games like VF2 showed exactly what could be acheived by Saturn but the PS1 design simply had everyone's jaw dropping when they saw Ridge Racer arcade ported and running on the PS1. The level of detail was mind blowing even if the PS1 version did not support certain functions.

 

[Lazy8s]

Crazyace:

I think that there wasn't really any programmability involved with the saturn

The system's eight something processors afforded a lot of power and flexibility when orchestrated. Games like Shining Force III were even harnessing its powerful sound processor effectively for graphical functions. A lot is evident, too, from the ways Saturn games could achieve their effects differently, like the scrolling playfields of various titles and rings of VF2, the rippling pools in Panzer Dragoon Saga and the water effects in Saturn Tomb Raider.

The warping on the Saturn in 3D was just as bad - just in a different way ( The only real correct effects tended to come from the VDP2 generated rotated playfields.. )

The tearing, disappearing, and ordering issues of polys seemed uniquely bad on PS to me. Yeah, Saturn games had significant issues with warping to, though, like the road in Touring Car.

Regarding the Tomb Raiders on PlayStation, I just don't see it, though the lighting was pretty nice. Tomb Raider: Chronicles (the system's latest and greatest installment graphically) -

 

[Crazyace]

Re: ...

PSX couldn't possibly do this even if it started smoking while trying.... End of story.

I'll have to disagree with you there DM, Sorry...

If you actually knew the capabilities of the two machines well enough you might change your opinion.. ( Not to say that it isn't a very good demo of what could be done on the saturn )

 

[Clashman]

Play Vagrant Story. Excellent particle effects and texturing, with really well done models. One of the nicest looking games of the 32bit gen... and to top it all off, it actually exists on the market.

Granted, I haven't played the game, but from the screenshots I was able to find, I didn't see anything that seemed to blow away the Saturn Shenmue, or even necessarily match it.

 

[Paul]

Omega boost anyone? 60fps. Ran off the GT2 engine.

 

[jvd]

all i have to say is thank god that generation of 3d games is dead. I would go blind playing them today .

 

[Evil_Cloud]

all i have to say is thank god that generation of 3d games is dead. I would go blind playing them today .

You just need to play for a while to adjust is my opinion. Some games don't age that badly over the years, while others do. (most times it are 3D games that seem to age, not 2D)

 

[jvd]

all i have to say is thank god that generation of 3d games is dead. I would go blind playing them today .

You just need to play for a while to adjust is my opinion. Some games don't age that badly over the years, while others do. (most times it are 3D games that seem to age, not 2D)

the 2d games look fine. I really think the 32 bit generation was the wrong time for consoles to make the jump. The filtering and power just wasn't there . In another generation those games willl look so bad . you can still look at a nintendo game from the nes and play it and think it looks fine. But those are just blury pixilated messes .

 

[I.S.T.]

all i have to say is thank god that generation of 3d games is dead. I would go blind playing them today .

You just need to play for a while to adjust is my opinion. Some games don't age that badly over the years, while others do. (most times it are 3D games that seem to age, not 2D)

the 2d games look fine. I really think the 32 bit generation was the wrong time for consoles to make the jump. The filtering and power just wasn't there . In another generation those games willl look so bad . you can still look at a nintendo game from the nes and play it and think it looks fine. But those are just blury pixilated messes .

You should play Square's PS1 game Threads of Fate. Very good for it's gen. Looks much smoother than most PS1 games. I'd place it over FF8 and 9 easily, in terms of GFX and gameplay.

 

[CIN]

Actually guys. Go and see the saturn video of Shenme. I found it very impressive for the time. IMO there are very few or no games on PS2 that have the same detail and it was still a beta. The frame rate was OK for the time and the ammount of detail visible. The faces where especially good compared to other games on the console.

 

[Evil_Cloud]

Actually guys. Go and see the saturn video of Shenme. I found it very impressive for the time. IMO there are very few or no games on PS2 that have the same detail and it was still a beta. The frame rate was OK for the time and the ammount of detail visible. The faces where especially good compared to other games on the console.

I still find it quite hard to believe they worked like 5 years on Shenmue and pumped a dazzeling 200 million $ in it.

I am quite sure that IF finished, Shenmue would have blown any PlayStation game out of the water in terms of graphics.

 

[ShinHoshi]

Yep, SS Shenmue is very impressing. The textures are very good but the most impressing IMO is the polygonal count that the video seems to hint...So much detail on SS seems insane.