S3 as viable 3rd IHV?

[Pete]

It's curious that a 700MHz, 8-pipe, 128-bit DDR GPU is targeting a 6600 and not a 6600GT. Perhaps they're correctly focusing on price b/c their (shader) hardware isn't as efficient per clock, or perhaps their drivers need some work. Or z is right and S3 is competing with full tri while everyone else is bringing bri/try to gameday.

But didn't OGL guy say that S3 implemented some try-like optimizations way back when? Is ATI doing the same thing with try, or are they cutting more corners in the name of speed?

 

[Skrying]

Hello everybody, I'm a newcomer.

In the inquirer's article the ChromeS27 is presented as a rough equivalent of "mid-range 6600". But judging fron the 3Dmark score, it behaves in the middle between a 6800 and a 6800 GT. If it is so, for 100-130$ it is very cheap, IMHO (aside from the driver problems that could discourage the end-user, let's hope they're fixed).

PS: please don't look at my English, it's not my mother language.

3DMark says little about game performance, this card has vertex performance way over that of the 6600s, but in other area's its losing badly most likely.

 

[Fodder]

I can't help but feel that S3 have made the exact same mistake as they did with DeltaChrome and GammaChrome; they're just too late. By the time these make it to market (6 months? 12 months?) faster SM3.0 low and mid-range cards will have flooded the market. They might have had a chance earlier this year, even with 130nm parts, but not now.

Hopefully they've got their act together on DX10, I think we all agree a third player would be great.

 

[Geo]

Hello everybody, I'm a newcomer.

In the inquirer's article the ChromeS27 is presented as a rough equivalent of "mid-range 6600". But judging fron the 3Dmark score, it behaves in the middle between a 6800 and a 6800 GT. If it is so, for 100-130$ it is very cheap, IMHO (aside from the driver problems that could discourage the end-user, let's hope they're fixed).

PS: please don't look at my English, it's not my mother language.

Welcome. Your english is fine, drop by again. :smile:

 

[SugarCoat]

I can't help but feel that S3 have made the exact same mistake as they did with DeltaChrome and GammaChrome; they're just too late. By the time these make it to market (6 months? 12 months?) faster SM3.0 low and mid-range cards will have flooded the market. They might have had a chance earlier this year, even with 130nm parts, but not now.

Hopefully they've got their act together on DX10, I think we all agree a third player would be great.

They dont have to just make a good card on time, but it really depends alot on support. I very much doubt people realize just how important drivers are too cards. They're everything. And im not sure they can keep up with either ATI or Nvidia in that department. Long dead are the days where drivers worked for everything and lasted you month after month.

 

[Crusher]

Things S3 has repeatedly failed on that need to be fixed for them to get back in the game:

1) They need to support current features. This is a mild SM2.0 card in the age of SM3. They'll never win silver if they keep aiming for the bronze, especially when bronze is the booby prize.

2) The features they claim to support need to work. In the past they've had broken T&L, and low quality AA, and the drivers at launch have never even worked properly in the popular games of the time.

3) Be competitive on performance as well as price. All of their past cards have underperformed compared to S3's claims. Their cards have either been 20-50% slower than the competition they were supposed to be keeping pace with, or they have been competing with cards whose performance was so bad to begin with that even if they did mange to come out on top in a benchmark, the framerate was still too low to be considered playable by most people.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

as long as S3 continues down the "just good enough" they will never be able to compete or gain respect

S3 Savage was a good card but late to market
S4 was a great card (expecially the extreme)

The problem is they got greedy and it cost them their reputation and their company (sonic blue anyone?)

 

[leoneazzurro]

3DMark says little about game performance, this card has vertex performance way over that of the 6600s, but in other area's its losing badly most likely.

Yes, of course you are right. However, with such high frequencies, IMHO it is possible even for a more limited HW to perform on par with the 6600 and even 6600 GT.
It would be interesting from a technical point of view if beyond3D could review the new Chrome architecture to see what is really inside the new S3's chip in terms of power and features. Of course, the big question here, aside from performance, is if the drivers have really improved form the past.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

Yes, of course you are right. However, with such high frequencies, IMHO it is possible even for a more limited HW to perform on par with the 6600 and even 6600 GT.
It would be interesting from a technical point of view if beyond3D could review the new Chrome architecture to see what is really inside the new S3's chip in terms of power and features. Of course, the big question here, aside from performance, is if the drivers have really improved form the past.

Do you know if they are still using CPU to offload some of the vortex/shader stuff like the original Chrome?

 

[Fodder]

They dont have to just make a good card on time, but it really depends alot on support.

They'll never get a chance to really work on their drivers if they can't get cards out in a timely enough fashion to establish an install-base.

 

[leoneazzurro]

Do you know if they are still using CPU to offload some of the vortex/shader stuff like the original Chrome?

I really don't know. There are not very in-depth reviews of the architecture on-line, so I have no references. But my guess is that the 4 vertex shaders are not like the previous' Chrome series, and can process the vertex data on their own. Of course, the vertex and shader units seem very simple in respect to ATI and Nvidia products, so I presume they will take more cycles to do the same work (and they are still PS 2.0)