Rift, Vive, and Virtual Reality

[cheapchips]

The Switch trunk controller is 6dof. The end joycon faces the IR camera back towards dots on the face so it can to positional tracking. It might be terrible in practice but that is still brilliant.

Nice shots of it being used in a sculpture package at the link.

https://uploadvr.com/labo-vr-6dof-controls/

 

[manux]

Acer announces similar headset as hp reverb. Acer though has physical ipd adjustment whereas hp reverb doesn't. Price and fov unknown at the moment.

Called ConceptD OJO, the headset uses dual 2160×2160 LCD panels. That means they might be the same panels used in the HP Reverb. Whereas the Reverb’s lenses are fixed in position, however, Acer’s headset allows you to adjust them for your interpupillary distance (IPD).

https://uploadvr.com/acer-conceptd-ojo/

 

[Silent_Buddha]

One thing I find interesting is that so far all the new Windows Reality headsets with the increased resolution feature an Oculus Rift style head strap and earpads rather than the PSVR style head ring.

Comfort and weight more important than ease of swapping between users? Cost and weight reduction? Users didn't like having to have a separate audio solution?

Regards,
SB

 

[Picao84]

One thing I find interesting is that so far all the new Windows Reality headsets with the increased resolution feature an Oculus Rift style head strap and earpads rather than the PSVR style head ring.

Comfort and weight more important than ease of swapping between users? Cost and weight reduction? Users didn't like having to have a separate audio solution?

Regards,
SB

Well Sony has patented the design and so far Lenovo was the only one who acquired the rights to use it. Maybe the other ones don't want to pay licenses fees?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Well Sony has patented the design and so far Lenovo was the only one who acquired the rights to use it. Maybe the other ones don't want to pay licenses fees?

If fear of a lawsuit was a concern, then they'd all go back and redesign all their current headsets as well. The designs are sufficiently different from Sony's implementation in the PSVR that I don't think patent violation is a concern.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't understand. If the PSVR way of doing things is patented, how can WR headsets use something that infringes it? Why would they redesign all their current headsets?

 

[cheapchips]

I don't understand. If the PSVR way of doing things is patented, how can WR headsets use something that infringes it? Why would they redesign all their current headsets?

Possibly PSVR is a particular implementation that's patented? They did do something to condense two straps into one between the Morpheus prototype and retail version.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I don't understand. If the PSVR way of doing things is patented, how can WR headsets use something that infringes it? Why would they redesign all their current headsets?

That's my point, I don't believe any of the WMR headsets infringes on Sony's patent, otherwise there'd already have been lawsuits and/or they wouldn't have used the current designs and/or would have had to redesign them.

Hence, moving to the Oculus Rift style of head strap isn't related to patent violation concerns, IMO. IIRC HP said they moved to the new head strap design due to weight and long term comfort compared to the previous PSVR style rigid head frame. Those things coming from feedback from their professional customers where they may have to wear them for hours a day on a daily basis..

I'm currently interested in the new high resolution headsets to see if the resolution will be good enough to use it as a more compact coding environment while still having a large work area. I really like having everything in view while working on things and not having to alt-tab frequently. Basically doing work on a laptop could potentially be as convenient and comfortable as doing work on my desktop.

The Rift gave me a tantalizing glimpse of how nice it could be, but the resolution and screen door effect basically rendered it worthless for serious work. The newer 14xx resolution headsets improved things slightly, but it still wasn't good enough for serious work, IMO. The Pimax 8Kx (X version can be used at native resolution) might have been good, but that thing has been plagued with so many delays and production problems.

Long term comfort is a large concern, however.

Regards,
SB

 

[Jay]

Sorry I've not followed thread, but I'm curious of peoples thoughts.

Hololens 2 has eye tracking and updated inside out sensors down to finger level tracking. Could use wands, controller, hands.
What's the odds of MS producing WMR 2 with those included, and wireless?
Also for release on Scarlett?

With eye tracking and foveret rendering would be able to produce much higher quality images, without the kind of downgrades currently required.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Sorry I've not followed thread, but I'm curious of peoples thoughts.

Hololens 2 has eye tracking and updated inside out sensors down to finger level tracking. Could use wands, controller, hands.
What's the odds of MS producing WMR 2 with those included, and wireless?
Also for release on Scarlett?

With eye tracking and foveret rendering would be able to produce much higher quality images, without the kind of downgrades currently required.

IMO, it all depends on cost. Microsoft's goals with WMR headsets focused on VR (HoloLens is also WMR, but focused on AR) was to reduce the cost to manufacturer's and in turn consumers. At the same time attempting to make them more "plug and play" and easier to use out of the box than headsets made by other manufacturer's at the time.

Granted the latest announcements by Acer and HP are now focusing on the professional market with a slight nod to the consumer market and are priced accordingly with features to make them more attractive to professionals.

So, will MS stick with trying to make WMR VR headsets more affordable to consumers and hoping the price point gets low enough for more widespread adoption? Or will they abandon that and attempt to chase more professional users?

That said, OEMs are free to do whatever they want. Even if MS weren't to officially include those in WMR 2.0 (if that's what it ends up being called), nothing prevents an OEM partner from including those things. Although if they aren't included on all solutions, support for those features (like finger tracking or foveated eye-tracked rendering) are likely to be much more limited to expensive professional software solutions.

Regards,
SB

 

[eastmen]

IMO, it all depends on cost. Microsoft's goals with WMR headsets focused on VR (HoloLens is also WMR, but focused on AR) was to reduce the cost to manufacturer's and in turn consumers. At the same time attempting to make them more "plug and play" and easier to use out of the box than headsets made by other manufacturer's at the time.

Granted the latest announcements by Acer and HP are now focusing on the professional market with a slight nod to the consumer market and are priced accordingly with features to make them more attractive to professionals.

So, will MS stick with trying to make WMR VR headsets more affordable to consumers and hoping the price point gets low enough for more widespread adoption? Or will they abandon that and attempt to chase more professional users?

That said, OEMs are free to do whatever they want. Even if MS weren't to officially include those in WMR 2.0 (if that's what it ends up being called), nothing prevents an OEM partner from including those things. Although if they aren't included on all solutions, support for those features (like finger tracking or foveated eye-tracked rendering) are likely to be much more limited to expensive professional software solutions.

Regards,
SB

We can see with the rift s that multiple cameras will fix the issues with WMR tracking. Sony is going to continue psvr support in ps5 and I am sure MS wants part of that action.

I hope we see WMR 2.0 this year , maybe at E3 that is a refresh with updated controllers and 4 or more camera tracking . I am hoping MS's game plan is to allow other companies to make XMR headsets and WMR and XMR are one and the same. That way we can see progression with the headsets outside of the xbox eco system . I got to use the reverb and it was pretty damn amazing. Easily the best looking screens I have had the pleasure of trying out. In terms of visuals these headsets moved forward quite well and its in all of our interests that we don't get stuck with just a 2019 or 2020 headset on either side of the console front

 

[Ike Turner]

We can see with the rift s that multiple cameras will fix the issues with WMR tracking. Sony is going to continue psvr support in ps5 and I am sure MS wants part of that action.

I hope we see WMR 2.0 this year , maybe at E3 that is a refresh with updated controllers and 4 or more camera tracking . I am hoping MS's game plan is to allow other companies to make XMR headsets and WMR and XMR are one and the same. That way we can see progression with the headsets outside of the xbox eco system . I got to use the reverb and it was pretty damn amazing. Easily the best looking screens I have had the pleasure of trying out. In terms of visuals these headsets moved forward quite well and its in all of our interests that we don't get stuck with just a 2019 or 2020 headset on either side of the console front

Don't get your hopes up. At the end of last year Microsoft had already shifted most of its WMR ressources to AR (mostly HoloLens 2 & Kinect for Azure) and has all but abandoned (technically "paused") VR related work for consumer facing products in the foreseeable future.

 

[eastmen]

Don't get your hopes up. At the end of last year Microsoft had already shifted most of its WMR ressources to AR (mostly HoloLens 2 & Kinect for Azure) and has all but abandoned (technically "paused") VR related work for consumer facing products in the foreseeable future.

MS still has WMR moving forward , the team is smaller but that's because the majority of what they wanted to accomplish is done and a smaller team is fine for expanding the amount of tracking cameras. I got to play with some stuff I can't talk about but if any of it makes it out MS will be quite competitive in the market

 

[Silent_Buddha]

OK, this is kind of amazing if it works as advertised. An NES emulator in VR. OK, cute but not too exciting right?

Well, it supposedly will render the games in 3D/2.5D. Games will still be the same, just that the scene is rendered in 3D/2.5D in VR. Looks like 46 games will be supported at launch.

Regards,
SB

 

[orangpelupa]

OK, this is kind of amazing if it works as advertised. An NES emulator in VR. OK, cute but not too exciting right?

Well, it supposedly will render the games in 3D/2.5D. Games will still be the same, just that the scene is rendered in 3D/2.5D in VR. Looks like 46 games will be supported at launch.

Regards,
SB

isnt someone already did that awhle ago? i remember watching a youtube video of it

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes, 2D to 2.5D is old hat. They've just added it a VR controlled camera to put it into a 3D space. If raytraced, it could look really realistic...

 

[manux]

Pretty cool new 2.9" display panels announced. Headset would use 2 of these if anyone creates vr headset with these panels.

Taiwanese display panel manufacturer AU Optronics is showing a new 3456×3456 LCD panel for VR at Display Week this week.

The panel is an LCD, but supports HDR through the use of 2304 individually controlled LED backlight elements rather than one global backlight. This is called ‘local dimming’, and is used on high end LCD televisions for HDR too. It doesn’t give the same quality of HDR as OLED (which can control brightness per-pixel), but with that many LEDs it can come close.

https://uploadvr.com/auo-3k-panel-displayweek/

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Hmmm...

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019...headsets-the-400-oculus-rift-s-600-hp-reverb/

Looks like the HP Reverb is not an option for me. The lack of IPD adjustment combined with subpar lenses really let down this headset. While the resolution is good enough to read relatively fine text, you basically have to be within the average IPD range to have clear center vision. However, even then, you'll have to contend with less than sharp visuals outside of that sweet spot.

The Rift S, also without IPD adjustment, at least features better lenses that offer more clarity across a wider FOV. However, it's resolution is barely adequate for text.

And finally color accuracy, black level, and screen uniformity are worse for both headsets compared to the OLED panels that the original Rift had.

Well, here's to hoping Acer does better with their ConceptD OJO. I'm not going to hold my breath here. It's Acer. They offer good products for the price, but that often comes at the cost of build quality or lack of polish.

It really is a shame that Valve couldn't at least swing the higher resolution screens at the price point they are targeting. Had they done so, I'd have at least considered their upcoming headset at their announced price.

Alternatively maybe Microsoft will feel the need to offer a premium Surface VR headset? I find that doubtful, however, as the VR market is still too small and too niche to necessitate that sort of investment from them, especially when you consider their investment in R&D for HoloLens.

Regards,
SB

 

[xexuxjy]

The Reverb might not be for anyone! https://www.roadtovr.com/hp-reverb-release-date-delay-slip-out-of-stock/

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This is what VR needs to avoid IMO. People having sub-par experiences will only be turned off, plus companies failing to make money from VR are going to abandon it. I suppose at the moment, it can be trusted VR purchasers are researching before-hand as it's a technical niche. Once you have an assortment of headsets in stores and people just picking one up and taking it home, it needs to work as an experience all they think VR is just blurry and awkward.