Rift, Vive, and Virtual Reality

Novelty. These things are cheap. I just bought a G3 for its camera and realised it is VR capable, so looked on Amazon for headsets last night and they're <£15. For just toying around with VR, it's probably worth it.

I doubt VR content will take off in a big way though because you need to dedicate time and effort to view it, unlike 'YouTube on the phone'. I put VR down as a Wii-like gimmick for now.
 
Definitely the chinese cheap stuff is novelty at best. The more interesting thing is trend. Everyone and their dog seems to be pushing vr and there seems to be some market for it. Latest entry to the race was/is google daydream. It will be interesting fall when daydream enabled android devices ship and sony also gets into the market.
 
I got my first rift today.

Some thoughts , Its easy to set up , its very light , the audio is pretty good. There is some screen door but not much and is better than my vive. I haven't seen god rays but have only played luckys tale. I'm downloading some games and will report back tomorrow.

my next rift comes on friday
 
I'm having a bit of trouble. I have a radeon r9 290 and 3 montiors plus the rift. I plugged one of my monitors into the display port using an hdmi to display port adapter that was rated for 4k.

However if I restart the machine all 3 monitors are on but the rift wont work , if the pc goes to sleep only 2 monitors go back on and the rift doesn't work. If I unplug the monitor and restart the 2 monitors and rift work. I've tried this is combinations with the dvi monitors plugged in or not.
 
Rift "doesn't work" means what? Does it get recognized at all in the device list in Oculus Home? Does unplugging/replugging it resolve this? If not, does unplugging it and plugging a monitor into the hdmi port that the Rift uses result in the monitor being correctly detected? I assume this is some sort of PnP displayport weirdness with Windows and the video card?
 
How many systems support more than 3 display devices at the same time?
 
Rift "doesn't work" means what? Does it get recognized at all in the device list in Oculus Home? Does unplugging/replugging it resolve this? If not, does unplugging it and plugging a monitor into the hdmi port that the Rift uses result in the monitor being correctly detected? I assume this is some sort of PnP displayport weirdness with Windows and the video card?

Anything on the hdmi or display port is just simply not found. The oculus software can't find the rift. AMD drivers and display properties can't find the monitor and it switches with a reboot.

Unpluging and repluging doesn't fix it. The biggest issue seems to come if it goes into standby or sleep (the pc)
 
How many systems support more than 3 display devices at the same time?

I was happily using Windows 8.1 with 4 monitors until I got my 49" 4k monitor. That allowed me to retire 2 of the monitors I had hooked up, so now I just run with 2 monitors. That was with both an AMD GPU and later an Nvidia GPU.

I know a couple people that run with 7 monitors (6x in Eyefinity + 7th one to monitor things).

Regards,
SB
 
edit: sorry for the length, this ended up being way longer than I intended...

The more I play around with the Vive, the more I realize the major difference between it and the Rift is really not in the performance of the VR experience but in the philosophy behind the engineering, design and packaging. Where the Rift has been designed through and through for elegance (as a purely customer-facing consumer product), the Vive on the other hand feels like an engineer's ideal product built around utility. Communication fallbacks, FPGAs everywhere, every component is independently firmware updated/managed, every sub-system feels like it could have a lot more functionality than what comes out of the box.

The lighthouse boxes are required to sync with each other for tracking operation and that can happen either wirelessly(optically) or by the provided 50ft(!) sync cable. Not that the cable is fancy or costly, but I really can't remember the last time I've seen 50ft of anything included with a product, least of all something that's intended purely as a corner-case backup that 99% of customers won't need.

The lighthouses can have their firmware updated by either micro-USB connection to the PC, or by bluetooth. Don't have a bluetooth module you say? Well there's a bluetooth module built into the cable/link box, and that device isn't even installed+enabled by default during initial setup, so it's something that seems to exist solely as an additional method of updating the firmware of the lighthouses, (and probably also as a 'just-in-case' catch-all for the future, cause having a standardized wireless protocol already rolled out in the field has huge utility.) Same thing goes for the built-in camera in the HMD - not enabled by default, not really necessary for the core product operation, but it's there anyways.

The lighthouses function in a master/slave sort of configuration, so each base station has three potential modes of operation depending on which is the master/slave and which sync method is used. You configure the mode by toggling via a button on the base stations. The lighthouses could have displayed the mode identification via some discrete single tri-color LED (or whatever would be common for small/mobile devices), instead the boxes have a full 7-segment display inside them.

Hopefully none of that comes across too strongly as praise or criticism for either the Rift or Vive, it's just meant to differentiate between them. If I were to offer an opinion though I think it would come from the position that I feel this generation of VR hardware and content is too early for general consumers to even think about buying in, and I probably would much rather have had Oculus release a DK3-style HMD with the base components of the Rift-CV1 back in 2015 and some form of early devkit for Touch available for purchase by now. In that sense the Vive feels more in tune with what I would have liked from Oculus. The Vive is like an engineering test bed of anything 2015 had to offer, while the Rift is an attempt at polishing and productizing the well explored features from 2014 VR.

Granted that's all armchair quarterbacking and doesn't pay any mind to the pressure Oculus would have been under to release a consumer HMD in order to make good on their developer partnerships depending on software sales (not that that's likely to be going all that well given the fumbled launch, lukewarm press reception, and incredibly toxic word of mouth coming from a vocal contingent of Valve/Vive fans.) If you look for any VR reviews of each system on the web, you'll pretty much see unanimous preference for the Vive. If you go to reddit you'll see /r/Vive typically has something like 50% more active users despite /r/Oculus having double the subscribers, being several years older, and at one point was the central social hub on the internet for this whole VR resurgence. Oculus may feel cushioned from the negative response given their financial backing from Facebook, but this surely can't be a comfortable prospect looking forward.

And the craziest part of all that is I still haven't the slightest clue how PC VR is ever supposed to transition into a prospering ecosystem from either of these platforms, even if they were both compatible every which way. Most AAA publishers can't even justify making PC-specific content that works on tens of millions of budget/mid-range PCs, never mind the hopeful market of hundreds of thousands whom have enthusiast video cards coupled with $800 VR systems. Facebook obviously didn't buy Oculus to just throw money away at an unprofitable PC gaming market, and I'm assuming Valve only entered with their own hardware because they felt obligated to make some sort of hedge on VR and ensure that Steam can keep a foothold in the medium. On top of all that you have the fact that VR HMDs aren't likely to get any cheaper anytime soon because all of the must-have features they're lacking are only going to add further complexity and cost. Eye tracking, specialty high-PPI displays, wireless, batteries, etc.

So what's the light at the end of the tunnel here? Maybe there's some future if PC VR can similarly leverage content development dollars being spent on the more popular console VR systems just as they do for regular console->PC multi-platform titles? Maybe once HMDs have high enough resolution to be usable as general computing and media consumption devices they'll be able to tap into the general TV/monitor consumer market? Will most VR developers be forced to design around the lowest common denominator of smartphone VR in order to tap into the Android/Google/Samsung market? Can premium cost HMDs and big budget content be subsidized through ads in some way akin to basic web services?
 
Well, Oculus at least is rumored to be thinking towards the future and expansion. The more consumer friendly overall package likely helps it in this regard, as it is rumored that Oculus will be partnering with Microsoft to provide the VR for their next console.

And I still don't see a way forward for VR to prosper as anything other than a niche category, even with the help of consoles. Will that be enough to sustain it? I'm doubtful, but we'll see.

As to the Vive,


I found that interesting in many ways. Setup while mostly easy and straight forward considering the number of components is still quite a bit more complex than Oculus. Zimtoc5 also feels the same way, at least with the current versions of VR. He likens it to the Wii or Kinect, where it'll engender large initial interest for the first 2-3 years before interest dies down. He advises anyone getting an Oculus Rift or HTC Vive to be ready to basically throw it away in 2-3 years as either [1] interest in VR will basically be dead or [2] better hardware will be out.

He also thinks that the way forward won't be AAA titles, but more in experimental indie efforts. Not sure if that'll be enough to sustain it or not.

I found it amusing just how often he bumped into things and suffered minor injuries (things like painfully whacking his arm into his desk). I do wonder if he ever smacked that woman in the video. :p He mentions that he's smacked the controller in to the walls of his room as well as other furnishing many times, but hasn't damaged them yet because he has a habit of moving his arms very "delicately." People that move their arms more forcefully may likely end up having to re-adjust how they play or risk damaging their controllers and hands/arms/head (his head came really close to smacking into his desk a few times).

Despite all that, he feels the Vive is a major step up even when compared to the Oculus Rift due to the room scale potential of the system. He likens it to being like the Holodeck from Star Trek.

Regards,
SB
 
VR definitely won't be dead in 2-3 years - there's just way too much money getting pumped into it to deflate that quickly. The industry inertia by Facebook's $2 billion vote of confidence by itself will be enough to warrant at least several kicks at the can by Oculus, even if worst comes to worst in the realm of hardware and software sales (which I don't think will be that bad.) I do genuinely believe that another crank of the resolution wheel will get these HMDs in striking distance of being useful, convenient, and economical enough to warrant using as a general media player. Every time I go to the movie theater now all I can think about is how much happier I'd be if I were there in VR. The inability to disable the 3D if I find it uncomfortable, the fact that I'm unable to sit 3 rows back because someone else managed to buy those tickets before I did, the annoying ads that precede the film, the overpriced food, the potentially rude/obnoxious people sitting next to you, etc. That's not to say that I think everyone will want to watch all their movies in VR, but there will definitely be tens of millions of people whom would want to watch some of their movies there, and that sort of functionality would be something that can/will be provided by even the most modestly powerful computing platforms in the home (Macbook, Surface, tablets, phones, etc.) A ~$500 device that gives you an Imax theater is something that would absolutely be attractive to a great many people, and it's a functionality that is easy to communicate to prospective buyers.

The open question I have for the short term is whether there'll be enough users for even the lower budget indie developers to turn profits. The developer for Technolust (one of the more visible made-for-VR indie titles that's been in development since the early days) recently mentioned on reddit, "...I need sales to jump a lot higher than they are now to consider a second game. I'm not even close to breaking even with the development of this part yet...". Granted that Oculus pre-orders still haven't been fulfilled so the number of potential buyers is probably not as large as it could/will be, but if a one-man developer of a notable VR title can't confidently look to their second title then that's concerning.
 
Believe it or not but I find the Rift more comfortable on my face than the 3D glasses provided at the theater. 3D glasses I find the need to continually adjust in order to change the pressure point on my nose, while if the Rift is configured properly it really doesn't have any pressure points and I can leave it there for a few hours. I would expect HMDs of the future to basically not come in contact with the face at all, along the lines of the PSVR or similar. So the only reason I could see someone not wanting to wear an HMD for watching a movie is if they're concerned about how they look, or if they're worried about messing up their hair.
 
Well, I haven't decided just yet whether I find 3D more annoying than VR. ;) I don't see myself ever buying a 3D movie ticket again.

Both 3D and VR seem to add a lot of strain to my visual system and reduce the whole movie watching experience, so there's just no point.

I do agree that VR demos are great.
 
Might as well note down my thoughts now that I've had my Rift CV1 for a little while. It's reasonably comfortable to wear, although my stupid fat head means the bit that's supposed to sit at the back, under the hump of your skull, sits nearer the top for me. Hasn't fallen off yet!

The lenses are a big step up over the prior devkits, but I see significant godrays/flaring depending on head position and content. Unavoidable really, but distracting.

The pixel density is still too low, so I'm constantly distracted by seeing them (individual subpixels to boot) at the start of a session. As I get more into the game I focus on it less, but it's super noticeable (as the screen door effect) and always there. It makes any kind of aliasing worse, objectively.

The combination of Oculus Home and SteamVR works OK, but I had real issues getting them to play nicely together until I'd rebooted Windows a few times. I'm not a Windows user these days so I'd forgotten how to make it work (cheap shot, sorry, but I really really hate the friction of PC gaming at the best of times).

Can't wait for Oculus Touch.

That's about it really. The image quality at the hardware/display level isn't there for it to be mainstream, in my opinion, but it's definitely good enough for it to go to market and let the enthusiasts bootstrap VR as a thing. I feel like we're definitely in that cusp right now, at least on the PC. Mobile VR is another thing entirely.
 
It's a pretty special thing to have what can be considered a legitimately novel/unique and unexpected experience in a game, and it's neat that VR seems to enable developers to do that in places you've grown accustomed to being a certain way for decades. The recent examples for me are things involving common UI functionality repackaged in ways that are fun, while not being overly complicated or inefficient that might lead me to think that a year from now everything will revert back to the usual [ESC] (menu) -> [down, down, down, ..., enter] sequence.

Examples in some VR titles now are:
Job Simulator's 'exit burrito' - I'm assuming that once it was discovered through play testing how much people enjoyed eating virtual donuts, they decided to build the interaction into the game's UI. Here you exit a game session back to the menu/hub room by picking up a burrito and do a bite motion by lifting it to your mouth. After a bite removes a mouthful of the burrito you see a 'Really?' confirmation request in the remainder of the burrito. Naturally a second bite is to confirm.

Fantastic Contraption's interface - Lifting a helmet over your head slips a menu world over your vision (imagine handling a fishbowl with a Portal-style real time portal as its opening allowing you to plunk your head into a different space.) I think I spent about 5 minutes just slipping the thing on and off in different ways. Aside from being cool/neat to play with, it had a similar sensation to me as taking the HMD on and off - such that you grow accustomed to playing in a certain space, with a certain size, lighting, and objects and then removing it reminds you that you were in both places the whole time. So in this case I managed to trigger that sensation in several tiers. Barely lit concrete basement <-> sunny and vibrantly colored game world <-> darkworld-esque menu world. I can imagine this sort of Inception effect being a pretty trippy gameplay mechanic to build a game around.

While similar lift-object-to-face loading mechanics are being used in quite a few places in VR (including the Facebook social VR demonstration that was webcasted a month or two ago), this is the only implementation I've seen that's a continuous UI interaction in the game world rather than a motion that triggers a canned exit/launch of a new scene or application that doesn't feel like the places are in anyway connected.
 
Well, I haven't decided just yet whether I find 3D more annoying than VR. ;) I don't see myself ever buying a 3D movie ticket again.

Both 3D and VR seem to add a lot of strain to my visual system and reduce the whole movie watching experience, so there's just no point.

I do agree that VR demos are great.

I got the "strained" feels too on some devices.

Generally passive 3D result in doubled image for the first 15 minutes or something. Active 3d flicker all the time. Google cardboard 3d feels awful when not carefully set.

From what I reads, Vive rift Psvr. All still need proper adjustments to be comfortable.

Maybe they set those adjustments as the OOBE? albeit I read that VIVE OOBE shown wrong and uncomfortable way of wearing it...

Dunno about rift and Psvr.
 
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