Rift, Vive, and Virtual Reality

[eastmen]

Higher optical resolution 750*800 pixels per eye versus 960*1080 pixels per eye
better image quality no rainbow artefacts on both sides of each pixel
no horrible diamond pentile screen door less black, dark unused space between each individual (sub)pixel
better comfort +600 gram ski-mask which is strapped tight against your face versus a 'welding-mask'-design which puts the weight on top of your head, nothing strapped against your face leaving marks after even 10 minutes of use
better cable management less cables coming out of the HMD, as well as lighter cables

1) The CV1 has 2 screens with a total of 2160x1200. That gives you 1080x1200 vs 960x1080 pixels per eye. Your match is off

2) There are no rainbow artifacts on either side of the pixel.

3) CV1 isn't using pentile

4) This isn't a problem with the rift , the engineering sample I've used is more comfortable than the vive or psvr

5) There is only 2 cables out of the rift. A usb 3.0 and a hdmi cable


Lets not forget that since the rift / vive uses two screens you get physical as well as software IPD adjustment which the ps4 is only capable of software. The rift may have 2 cables but it also already has headphones built in. So there will be no need for a cable for head phones or heavy wireless ones. The rift and the vive are capable of supporting as many light houses and cameras as they want to improve room scale , while the ps4 can only use a single camera.

Oculus went to two smaller screens so they could skip pentile and also get physical IPD adjustment. The physical IPD adjustment is a huge step up from Dev kit 2. Zoning in on my sweet spot was possible with the production sample and something I never achieved with the 2

 

[MrFox]

3) CV1 isn't using pentile

I'm kind of expecting it would be rgb, but where did you read this?

 

[eastmen]

from looking at a couple of phones through VR, one normal & one pentile

yes the lit area on the 5x looks to be more than the 6p, but the higher resolution more than makes up, thus for viewing with VR I do prefer the 6p.

I have a hard time believing the PSVR will have a higher quality screen, (due to it most likely costing far less)

Don't forget that not all pentile is equal. Even diamond pentile has been refined

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Sams...crets-of-the-brightest-AMOLED-display_id54772

They are now on the galaxy s7 so it will be interesting to see if there were even more refinements. But its my understanding that the rift uses regular screens

 

[eastmen]

I'm kind of expecting it would be rgb, but where did you read this?

I've looked through a cv1 prototype and it didn't look pentile to me.

 

[MrFox]

I've looked through a cv1 prototype and it didn't look pentile to me.

CV1 has more optical filtering. It could still be pentile.

 

[hughJ]

The common assumption is that it's pentile, but I don't think Oculus have officially said one way or the other. I think the fact that it's using some sort of diffuser to improve the pixel fill and subpixel separation might be throwing people off.

 

[eastmen]

CV1 has more optical filtering. It could still be pentile.

The common assumption is that it's pentile, but I don't think Oculus have officially said one way or the other. I think the fact that it's using some sort of diffuser to improve the pixel fill and subpixel separation might be throwing people off.

Well Oculus is partnered with Samsung and Samsung does make non pentile amoled screens.

For instance the Galaxy Tab 3 10.5 uses a 2560x1600 RGB S-Stripe display

 

[MrFox]

All Samsung screens below 10 inch are pentile.

 

[eastmen]

All Samsung screens below 10 inch are pentile.

Not really , just a quick look on wiki shows the note 3 neo has a 5.6 1280x800 RGB S-stripe screen, the note 2 also had one

It seems like they can't offer it in the sweet spots for their phones at a resolution and ppi that's acceptable. The 2560x1440 is all pentile for the 5.1 and 5.7 inch screens.

Remember the DK2 used a note 3 screen which was a 5.7 1080p screen using pentile. If we divide that in half your looking at 2.85 inch screens inside the rift. They haven't made anything that small in a very long time.

It will be interesting to see what we get in the final cv1 . I don't think its pentile , because it doesn't look pentile and I've used the dk2 a lot along with cardboard on my note 5 which is a 2560x1440 and its still noticeable on that-


I believe its a custom screen designed for what oculus wanted. So I wouldn't say its pentile just because that is Samsungs most popular screen

 

[hughJ]

Oh well, we're only a few weeks away from knowing the answer for sure. Either way I don't think it's terribly important. The fact that the display stack is good enough to make the subpixel arrangement ambiguous is the important part.

 

[Egmon83]

1) The CV1 has 2 screens with a total of 2160x1200. That gives you 1080x1200 vs 960x1080 pixels per eye. Your match is off

2) There are no rainbow artifacts on either side of the pixel.

3) CV1 isn't using pentile

4) This isn't a problem with the rift , the engineering sample I've used is more comfortable than the vive or psvr

5) There is only 2 cables out of the rift. A usb 3.0 and a hdmi cable


Lets not forget that since the rift / vive uses two screens you get physical as well as software IPD adjustment which the ps4 is only capable of software. The rift may have 2 cables but it also already has headphones built in. So there will be no need for a cable for head phones or heavy wireless ones. The rift and the vive are capable of supporting as many light houses and cameras as they want to improve room scale , while the ps4 can only use a single camera.

Oculus went to two smaller screens so they could skip pentile and also get physical IPD adjustment. The physical IPD adjustment is a huge step up from Dev kit 2. Zoning in on my sweet spot was possible with the production sample and something I never achieved with the 2

1) CV1 uses pentile your understanding of actual possible visible pixels and thus resolution is off

2) CV1 uses pentile

3) because of pentile there are rainbow artefacts in high contrast edges, interaces and or text

4) more comfortable is subjective; having an imprint of the oculus on your face for minutes after removing it could be more comfortable to you, but this is highly subjective

5) this was aimed at the Vive Pre, I have not used a oculus CV1

6) PSVR has a headphone jack on the HMD

7) lighthouse is vastly superior to both oculus and PSVR, PSVR controls are superior to oculus because they are mandatory, Dual shock 4 is an actual VR controller wheres the required Xbox 1 controller for oculus has nothing to do with VR; no position, no tracking, to gyros, nothing

8) CV1 uses pentile

edit: there is a diffuser in front of the CV1 pentile display; this blurs the pixels, further lowering the image quality, but reducing (not eliminating) the screen door effect

 

[eastmen]

1) CV1 uses pentile your understanding of actual possible visible is off

2) CV1 uses pentile

Got a link to an announcement ?

3) because of pentile there are rainbow artefacts in high contrast edges, interaces and or text

I have not experienced this with an engineering sample of the oculus rift

4) more comfortable is subjective; having an imprint of the oculus on your face for minutes after removing it could be more comfortable to you, but this is highly subjective

I have not had an imprint of my face with the rift and I have quite a large head , I can't even get fitted hats

5) this was aimed at the Vive Pre, I have not used a oculus CV1

The pre has 3 cables running off it.

6) PSVR has a headphone jack on the HMD

which introduces another cable.

7) lighthouse is vastly superior to both oculus and PSVR, PSVR controls are superior to oculus because they are mandatory, Dual shock 4 is an actual VR controller wheres the required Xbox 1 controller for oculus has nothing to do with VR; no position, no tracking, to gyros, nothing

I disagree. PSVR controls are not mandatory as everyone has a dual shock. The Xbox 1 controller can be tracked tho , it has its own little light on it that the constellation tracking should pick up.

I found this odd and funny.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

1) CV1 uses pentile

You're coming across as very arrogant and unpleasant. If you have knowledge that everyone else is lacking, supply evidence supporting your understanding rather than just asserting/implying everyone else is stupid. If you can't back up your points with any real evidence and are deferring to insider knowledge, do so with respect to everyone else and don't expect us to take everything you say as fact without anything to back it up.

 

[Egmon83]

I disagree. PSVR controls are not mandatory as everyone has a dual shock. The Xbox 1 controller can be tracked tho , it has its own little light on it that the constellation tracking should pick up.

wishful thinking at best; even if this worked you could only track in 2d, x and y position, from the little light depth tracking is impossible, unless the constellation has a 40megapixel camera, which it doesn't have

Dual Shock 4 IS a VR controller;

it has 1:1 tracking; sub-mm tracking in a 3D space (xyz), acceleration, gyroscope, compass, tilt, everything. now you know why the DS4 light-bar which can reflect in your tv screen is there

Redacted

 

[eastmen]

please stop he helmet wars !

Me the first time i'm going to try the PSVR:

Bro , if I had a dog as ugly as you , i'd shave its ass and tell it to walk backwards......


But seriously which ever one your going to buy you will have fun with. Golem looks great. You'd just have the best time with the rift

 

[Egmon83]

You're coming across as very arrogant and unpleasant. If you have knowledge that everyone else is lacking, supply evidence supporting your understanding rather than just asserting/implying everyone else is stupid. If you can't back up your points with any real evidence and are deferring to insider knowledge, do so with respect to everyone else and don't expect us to take everything you say as fact without anything to back it up.

Sorry, my apologies, but a lot of misinformation is spread on the internet, I was tired of that so I might have been typing too fast. I do know some people involved with oculus, but those are not engineers. Though I can tell you that Carmack got a lot of shit for posting his RGB-preference, with Palmer requesting for him to delete it, which he didn't as you can see on his twitter.

You can delete my posts/account if by some weird miracle the CV1 uses a non-pentile screen in a few weeks. Is that good enough? I can also ask my friend to take a macro photo of the inside of the CV1 displaying black text on a white surface, then you can confirm the rainbow effect as well as the subpixel configuration, even with the diffuser

 

[Karamazov]

Bro , if I had a dog as ugly as you , i'd shave its ass and tell it to walk backwards......


But seriously which ever one your going to buy you will have fun with. Golem looks great. You'd just have the best time with the rift

certainly, but too expensive for me ! i would have to buy a complete PC, as i only own a netbook.
forget golem, it's all about "volley ball"

 

[eastmen]

wishful thinking at best; even if this worked you could only track in 2d, x and y position, from the little light depth tracking is impossible, unless the constellation has a 40megapixel camera, which it doesn't have

Dual Shock 4 IS a VR controller;

it has 1:1 tracking; sub-mm tracking in a 3D space (xyz), acceleration, gyroscope, compass, tilt, everything. now you know why the DS4 light-bar which can reflect in your tv screen is there

REDACTED

So they are using two 5 inch 1080p screens is what your telling me. Not only that but the s4 came out in 2013 .

And vive is going to use the same screens.

So what did Oculus gain from their partner ship with Samsung ? The same screens as the vive that are now 3 years old.

I highly doubt it. I've mentioned before the DK2 used a 5.7 inch note 3 screen. How would they fit 2 5inch screens. Why would they take 2 five in screens and cut them in almost half. The resolution wouldn't work.

Then add to the fact that they would have to get this 3 year old screen to run at 90fps low persistence. They couldn't get a single note 3 screen to do that.

1920x1080p divided by 2 would leave them with 980x1080p screens. Two of them would give them a 1920x1080p screen again. Not the actual 2160x1200 .

Whatever they are using they would need 1080x1200 per screen.

 

[DieH@rd]

Btw I just got some info from my contact at oculus, and they are using repurposed galaxy S4 OLED screen substrates for the CV1 I don't fully understand but they are the same physical dpi, subpixel configuration and everything, but they are 'cut' to smaller sizes?

Screen factories create large pixel matrix substrate, and then cut that into desired sizes. Here is example for HDTV factory [1min 32secv mark], how they take a bigass substrate and then can cut in into several types of smaller pieces:

And after watching this, now you know why mid-size HDTVs are getting cheaper and cheaper. Substrates are getting larger.

 

[Egmon83]

Sorry if I was not clear (I didn't understand it either) with OLED production, screens are 'cut' from a bigger 'substrate' this substrate was also used to cut the S4 screens out of, which is why the physical characteristics are exactly the same. The display controller is custom, the display should be driven at 90hz and be capable of low persistence . So it's not like they take an actual assembled S4 screen, and then cut some sh-t off; they have a really really big oled screen and they cut smaller screens out of it.
The S4 display btw is actually excellent:
http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_S4_ShootOut_1.htm

you can imagine the 5inch S4 screen in portrait mode, so 1080pixels wide, and 1920pixels tall, but instead of 1920 pixels tall, it's only 1200 pixels tall this would be about 2.8inch tall, and the aspect ratio fits with this:

edit:

Screen factories create large pixel matrix substrate, and then cut that into desired sizes. Here is example for HDTV factory [1min 32secv mark], how they take a bigass substrate and then can cut in into several types of smaller pieces:

And after watching this, now you know why mid-size HDTVs are getting cheaper and cheaper. Substrates are getting larger.

thanks!