Rift, Vive, and Virtual Reality

[manux]

Kind of obvious, but nice to hear it from horses mouth. My guesses would be eye tracking & foveated rendering and open question would they keep external sensors(price, setup)? Maybe some innovation in controllers also in the mix.

Valve could do eye tracking and foveated rendering properly as they can provide both content and hw and make sure hw does what sw needs. Of course same applies to oculus too but in my mind something like sequel to alyx would be perfect showcase for such technology.

Turning to the hardware, Keighley notes that the team is “already working on what’s next”, and that Valve’s Jeremy Selan himself noted the Index was already “two years old technology” at this point. Valve boss Gabe Newell made a lot of interesting remarks about the potential for new hardware from Valve ahead of the release of Alyx and, in our own interview with the team, Greg Coomer suggested the game’s ending might have some interesting implications on the hardware side.

https://uploadvr.com/valve-top-secret-project/

 

[Davros]

Has anyone got an eye tracker - see how good the tech is?

 

[manux]

Has anyone got an eye tracker - see how good the tech is?

This is one of the more known eye tracking solutions: https://vr.tobii.com/

HW alone is of no use. It has to be complemented with software support which is rare if not totally non existent in current games.

 

[Davros]

not sure about that should work in any game that has mouselook, like a more sophisticated track-ir (i have games that support tobii eye tracker)
edit: support in 154 games
https://gaming.tobii.com/games/

 

[manux]

not sure about that should work in any game that has mouselook, like a more sophisticated track-ir (i have games that support tobii eye tracker)
edit: support in 154 games
https://gaming.tobii.com/games/

Mouse/input is one thing but the meat is in the thing that is Not supported. The Not supported thing being proper foveated rendering without major artifacts. Basically render what user is looking at with super high fidelity and render the details user is not focused in with much less details. The simple way to achieve this is with variable rate shading but it's not enough for optimal quality and speed increase. Ideally the parts user looks at would be rendered in higher quality than todays game are rendered and the areas which are not focus with much, much less details.

Foveated rendering + eye tracking is important as the resolution and framerates in high end vr headsets are ridiculous. Pretty much no gpu can run them without compromise. This is especially true if someone brings out even higher resolution displays. VR has to render in bigger res than screen is due to warping. Reverb g2 for example has two 2160 x 2160 resolution displays that need to be run at 90Hz. That is insanely heavy and would benefit tremendously from proper foveated rendering but that would require software and eye tracking. Imagine what happpens if someone for example does vr headset with two 8k displays. Would be nice, approaches human eye resolution but what can drive those displays without very smart foveated rendering,...

In this context oculus for example is looking into this type of research:

DeepFovea samples only 10% of the pixels in each video frame, focusing largely but not exclusively on the area where the user’s eye is focused, represented by the lizard head above. By comparison, the peripheral area is sampled only by scattered dots that become less dense further from the eye’s focus area. The system then uses trained generative adversarial neural networks to reconstruct each frame from the tiny samples, while relying on the stream’s temporal and spatial content to fill in details in a stable rather than jittery manner.

https://venturebeat.com/2019/11/18/...omises-power-efficient-vr-foveated-rendering/

edit. When oculus released quest they said this completes their first gen headset port folio. I hope this mean 2nd gen would be eye tracking+good foveated rendering + super high res panels. But oculus also said it will be a pretty long time before 2nd gen will be out. I for one I'm not expecting oculus to bring their 2nd gen headsets out next year. But someone else might and hopefully will.

 

[swaaye]

I was thinking about the USB problems people run into with VR (like I have) so did some searching on USB power. I came across an interesting aspect to USB that never occurred to me. USB on motherboards is usually powered by +5vsb. That's so you can have wake from USB. That rail provides a mere 2-3A with most PSUs.

Some motherboards, maybe mostly old ones, had a jumper to configure between 5vsb or the main 5v rail. Seems rare these days unfortunately.

 

[eastmen]

I was thinking about the USB problems people run into with VR so did some searching on USB power. I came across an interesting aspect to USB that never occurred to me. USB on motherboards is usually powered by +5vsb. That's so you can have wake from USB. That rail provides a mere 2-3A with most PSUs.

Some motherboards, maybe mostly old ones, had a jumper to configure between 5vsb or the main 5v rail.

my usb issues were always oculus sensor related. But it could be a power issue . It would happen on the add on card i bought also

 

[swaaye]

my usb issues were always oculus sensor related. But it could be a power issue . It would happen on the add on card i bought also

Yeah. With the Reverb on my motherboard rear ports it would frequently blackout, have positioning problems, controller disconnects, etc. That's both Asmedia USB 3.1 and Intel Z370.

I've found using a rear USB 3.0 bracket to mobo header works much better but I think a PCIe card is probably best. Though PCIe cards vary wildly in quality. I have one that works well and another which causes occasional crazies. Both with Renesas chip. This makes me think signal quality is another issue.

 

[eastmen]

https://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?Docid=20200225473

valve patent on eye tracking. Dunno if it was posted here

A head-mounted display with rolling illumination display panel can dynamiclly target a render time for a given frame based on eye tracking. Using this approach re-projection adjustments are minimized at the location of the display where the user is looking. which mitigates unwanted repojection based visual artifacts in that region of interest.

Really interesting stuff.

 

[manux]

This talk is fascinating. Gives a glimpse into facebook and what and why they have been working on. The eye tracking part is also interesting even though for me the optics and displays was the more fascinating part. Lot of the prototypes shown and why they did them. Also surprising to see how much pure research they do.

 

[swaaye]

HP Reverb on motherboard Intel USB port.


HP Reverb on USB 3.0 bracket attached to motherboard Intel USB header


All the ports start at 5.08v but it looks like the motherboard's ports have more voltage drop with the load. Maybe that's the cause of the helmet's problems on those ports. Current hovers around 0.5 amps once the helmet is done initializing. The PCIe USB card drops to the same 4.89v as the bracket ports. Both bracket and PCIe card work fine with the helmet.

 

[orangpelupa]

I managed to use 5 meters cable (3m cable + 1m extender + 1m active USB hub) by plugging 5v2a power to USB hub.

Without that extra power, Link won't even start without crashing.

 

[swaaye]

I managed to use 5 meters cable (3m cable + 1m extender + 1m active USB hub) by plugging 5v2a power to USB hub.

Without that extra power, Link won't even start without crashing.

Yeah that's the official way to get more distance out of USB. Hubs or active cable (which is a hub in a cable.)

Reverb has 3.5m Display port and USB. I haven't put much effort into extensions because the DP connection basically requires an active repeater and that's not cheap.

 

[orangpelupa]

HOLY SHIT!!!! Playing beet saber with feet are AWESOME!!!

 

[Silent_Buddha]

HOLY SHIT!!!! Playing beet saber with feet are AWESOME!!!

Watching your cat play the game?

Regards,
SB

 

[Davros]

Oculus Adding Facebook Account Requirement

The Oculus Blog announces that starting in October everyone using an Oculus device for the first time will be required to log in to Facebook. As of the beginning of 2023, all Oculus owners will need a Facebook account to retain full functionality of their headsets. Here's the summary of the lengthy update:
What changes are coming to accounts on Oculus?
Starting in October 2020:
Everyone using an Oculus device for the first time will need to log in with a Facebook account.
If you are an existing user and already have an Oculus account, you will have the option to log in with Facebook and merge your Oculus and Facebook accounts.
If you are an existing user and choose not to merge your accounts, you can continue using your Oculus account for two years.
Starting In January 2023:

We will end support for Oculus accounts.
If you choose not to merge your accounts at that time, you can continue using your device, but full functionality will require a Facebook account.
We will take steps to allow you to keep using content you have purchased, though some games and apps may no longer work. This could be because they require a Facebook account or because a developer has chosen to no longer support the app or game you purchased.
All future unreleased Oculus devices will require a Facebook account, even if you already have an Oculus account.

F**k you Oculus

 

[swaaye]

I wonder if they will rebrand the thing to Facebook VR at some point. The masses will better identify with that. I'm thankful for not owning any of it now.

 

[BRiT]

And officially on my never to purchase list.

 

[nutball]

Welp, that's made the choice a little easier when it comes time to dip my toe in the VR waters. Oculus comes pre-deleted from my list of candidates. Well done Zuck, both feet with both barrels!

 

[manux]

Hate the facebook login decision. I have owned oculus cv1 and now have quest. Looks like me avoiding oculus store and buying almost all stuff from steam is going to pay off in next upgrade cycle. It was fun with oculus while it lasted.