Rift, Vive, and Virtual Reality

Discussion in 'VR and AR' started by idsn6, May 8, 2013.

  1. Karamazov

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    between my PSVR and Quest i'd say around 5 hours a week +10-12 hours of 2D gaming.
     
  2. Davros

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    Thanks for the answers, I didnt follow vr because it's always been out of my price range,
    but a local pawn shop has a couple of psvr's for £100 and i know they can be used with the pc
    How is vr with games not designed for it games where you have a cockpit view (flight/space/racing sims)
    also how is it for something like quake 3 ?
     
  3. Karamazov

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    non VR games won't become VR, you'll just see a big 2D screen in front of you.
    On PC some older games have a VR mod though.
     
  4. Davros

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    I thought the pc/headset renders a different viewpoint for each eye
    like it does with stereoscopic glasses ?
     
  5. Tkumpathenurpahl

    Tkumpathenurpahl Oil my grapes.
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    I've used PSVR's "theatre mode" to watch 3D Blu-ray and it's a very cool in the largest screen mode.

    A few friends and I played Alien Isolation on my PS4, with one person wearing the headset in the same largest screen mode, and one of the people viewing the screen using the controller. It was rather intense in the headset.
     
  6. manux

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    15-60minutes gaming sessions using oculus quest. Rarely anything longer as I like my vr experiences in bite sized chunks and in roomscale if possible.

    I would benchmark any headset against oculus quest. It's the thing to beat. Quest runs in standalone mode without wires. Quest also works with rift desktop content and steam vr via oculus link cable. Quest uses inside out tracking so no need to setup sensors. For the price quest is really nice even though it's a compromise to reach that price point.

    I'm playing ultimate fishing simulator vr at the moment. It's pretty good though only if you like fishing. The little touches like being able to walk around in roomscale is handy when fighting a bigger fish/angling for perfect throw. Mostly I move with the analog stick but minor adjustments to position by walking&turning in space is great. Biggest gripe I have about this game is that it's not yet optimized for inside out tracking headsets. It took a while to figure out how to do long(er) casts by glitching the mechanics a bit. Using something like valve index + external sensors would work better for this game. Most likely implementation issue and nothing to do with hw/inside out tracking itself.
     
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  7. xexuxjy

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    Having said all of the above, I've still pre-ordered Half Life Alyx. Don't normally pre-order anything :)
     
  8. hughJ

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    A native VR application renders the two viewports by writing to 2 buffers that are initialized and managed by the VR runtime (Oculus, SteamVR, etc), which then talks directly to the HMD without having to work through the Windows display stack (it's not treated as a monitor). PSVR on a PC is another matter though, of course, as it's not a supported HMD by the PC VR runtimes, and would be relying on third-parties to provide whatever limited I/O functionality it can offer. I'd presume it'd be limited to 3DOF, and lack any sort of motion controller support. I feel like the most interesting and entertaining part of using PSVR on PC would be the process of trying to get it to work at all, rather than using it as a VR device. If one of the many Windows MR headsets are too expensive for you, I can't see how a PSVR for the PC is a good buy.
     
  9. Davros

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    Dont quite understand, when playing quake 3 on a vr headset are 2 viewports rendered or do you
    just see a big 2D screen in front of you
     
  10. Karamazov

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    you might be confusing VR and 3D content.
    In VR you just don't see 3D images, you actually are Inside the game, you feel like you are "there" wearing some diving helmet (limited FOV)
    If you play a classic game with a PC VR headset, it will be via some vitual desktop program, so you'll just see a big 2D screen in front of you; with the option to choose its size and plain or curved. If the content you are seeing is in 3d, like a 3d movie, you'll see the 3d effect on that virtual 2d screen.
    But if you really want to benefit from VR, a game like Quake 3 will need a mod to make it to VR.
     
  11. hughJ

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    Windows doesn't detect it as a monitor, so Quake 3 can't output an image to it. Quake 3 could be displayed inside a VR headset in a few different ways: 1) Adding to and compiling the source itself to integrate Oculus/SteamVR support (someone's probably already done this). 2) Using a desktop mirror feature from something like "Virtual Desktop" or "Bigscreen" which allows you to see your Windows desktop as if it were a floating screen in front of you. or 3) Something like VorpX.

    In terms of Quake 3 specifically, it's all kind of academic anyways in practice, because even if you got it working in VR, your options would boil down to this: Play Quake3 as a 2D screen of arbitrary size in front of you, or Stand in a Quake3 level and look around at a life size Quake map. You're not going to be able to play Quake 3 properly in full scale 3D VR because your mouse+keyboard control will produce very rapid nausea.
     
    #2011 hughJ, Dec 4, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  12. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    In addition to the two previous posts, an old game converted to a VR headset viewed as virtual cinema screen, the game will render one viewport, and the the VR display process will generate two views, one each for left and right eye. These independent views give you a stereoscopic image that simulates a larger screen viewed at a distance. You see two viewports of just a big screen in front of you showing a 2D game with one flat viewport. ;)
     
  13. Karamazov

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    looks like there is indeed a VR mod for Quake 3, with 6DOF.
    There is also a Quake 2 VR mod for the Quest !
     
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  14. hughJ

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    Being that those engines are open source there'll always be "support", but there's a world of difference between having the game/engine technically supporting VR and the gameplay/design working well. The first VR content Valve did was integrate VR support into TF2 back in 2013 for the DK1, and despite providing half a dozen different experimental VR control schemes, it really wasn't enjoyable to play. That's the first and only time where I had to lie down for an extended period due to VR nausea.
     
  15. Davros

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    so something like quake 3 on a vr headset wont look like it does with shutter glasses
    I also noticed quite a few people playing racing games in vr and those arnt games designed for vr
     
    #2015 Davros, Dec 4, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  16. hughJ

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    Chances are any racing games you see people playing in VR have official VR support. Iracing, Assetto Corsa, Project Cars 1/2, Dirt, etc, etc. It's games like GTA5 where people are having to hack in VR support via external programs like VorpX.
     
  17. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    I pickup up a HP Reverb last week. Finally decided to give this VR stuff a go and I wanted the Reverb for its high resolution.

    I think it's really mind blowing when you get these up and running and are in the game world. Super fancy graphics aren't really required. The sensation of just being in the 3D space and being able to interact with it on a such a high level is so immersive that the graphics eyecandy takes a backseat.

    I've been playing a few different games on Steam.
    -Blade & Sorcery is a Dark Messiah-style medieval combat sandbox. I love this. Super engaging.
    -Shattered Lights free room scale horror game is really cool. Feels somewhat like an escape room. Need some extension cables!
    -Prey Typhon Hunter / TranStar VR. I got this free with Mooncrash over a year ago I think. It's pretty cool to explore Talos 1 in VR.
    -Alien Isolation MotherVR. This is something I've been wanting to try for years. It's still too unfinished to really work well but it's so cool to be in that game world.
    -DIRT Rally 2.0. I've briefly tried this and it's awesome being in the car but I felt the motion sickness starting up pretty quick because of the combination of car interior and exterior motion. Going to have to experiment more with settings there.

    Running a GTX 1080 and have had no performance issues.

    I did try some VR videos too but the clarity/focus there isn't adequate. The nausea builds quick. You can't look around as naturally as in a 3D rendered world. The video looks 3D but you can't just look anywhere and have consistent clarity. Crazy eyestrain at times.

    One of the most curious things to me is the limitations of the lenses in these HMDs. The way there is a visual sweet spot in the center and the peripheral vision isn't really what you want to look at. Turn head instead of eyeballs. Managing eyestrain is a challenge and that links up with motion sickness. And the fixed interpupillary distance design of most helmets is curious too.
     
    #2017 swaaye, Dec 5, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  18. Silent_Buddha

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    That's one of the things I like with the Oculus Rift, it has a physical IPD adjustment. It's also one of the reasons I won't be getting a Reverb even though I've read that a lot of the problems it had in the first few months have been addressed.

    The Acer Concept D OJO was supposed to have the same panels and resolution but with a physical IPD. Unfortunately, I think they may have cancelled it rather than launch it commercially.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  19. hughJ

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    I had that issue with the DK1 and DK2, but the Rift and Vive for me have focus from edge to edge of the lens. I assumed the switch to fresnel lenses is what allowed for that, but I see the Reverb also has fresnels?

    I'm reminded of some old reports from Valve's VR R&D, how making a jump in resolution or tracking precision would end up uncovering artifacts that were otherwise hidden up until that point. I'd imagine that once VR resolution becomes "good enough" (usable as a monitor/TV replacement), that everything from optics, tracking stability, refresh rate, etc will need to be addressed again.
     
    #2019 hughJ, Dec 5, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  20. orangpelupa

    orangpelupa Elite Bug Hunter
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    For those wanting for a true wireless PCVR and considering to get a Quest....

    Please consider to wait for Quest 2 or something or just consider tethered PCVR.

    WHY?

    This is my experience with Quest to wirelessly play PCVR

    1. Compatibility issues

    Even with games that listed Rift as supported, Quest controller may or may not work at all or may work partially.

    Some games will have your hands / controller stuck in the ground, tracked properly but you button presses didn't register, it doesn't track but the buttons works, or everything works but the bindings are weird and uncomfortable.

    If you have AMD GPU, use ReLive VR and you can fake your Quest as VIVE as workaround.

    Oh steam have awesome refund policy you say?

    Yeah they do easily give refunds but it can take up to 30 days for you to get your money back. To this day, I still hasn't got my money back.

    2. Comfort / sweats / cleaning
    Playing PCVR wirelessly feels awesome (I'm not exaggerating, it really feels awesomely liberating) and I can't stop moving around waaaay more than with PSVR.

    The problem is that.. The more I move... The more annoying the "facial interface padding", and the more sweaty I am.

    Quest use some kind of foamy fabric thing as a padding (facial interface) between your face and the visor. It's so thick, my field of view become so limited it felt like I was looking thru a scope.

    This "scope view" feels weird when I move around freely.

    The facial interface also absorb sweats really well... It's a bitch to clean.

    I can't just wipe it with a wet tissue like PSVR, I must remove the damn thing, submerge it in a soapy water for 5 minutes while softly "massaging" the foam, then rinse it with running water while massaging it AGAIN.

    Then launch Uncharted 4 on PS4 PRO, and put the facial interface on PS4 PRO exhaust to dry it. If you have a hairdryer it probably works too.

    Fortunately I still can use Quest even without a facial interface. I simply cut a rectangle of Styrofoam from GTX 1660 SUPER box, and use it as facial interface. Resulting in:
    * can play while waiting for the facial interface to dry
    * waaaay better field of view. Almost as wide as PSVR!
    * Waaaay better comfort, as the Styrofoam put the headset weigh to my forehead just like PSVR

    Its not really secure tho, so playing something like Beat Saber is not recommended.


    3. It requires awesome WIFI
    To get the lowest latency possible, you can use windows 10 Hotspot in 5GHz (a bitch to setup as the 5GHz option only appear randomly and you must have active internet conn), or windows hosted network.

    Unfortunately, laptop manufacturers (in my case ASUS with ROG 702ZC) didnt put any cooling to the wifi chip.

    Playing for 15 minutes is fine. More than that and I'll get stuttering, macro blocking, etc.

    To achieve The most stable experience, I used ethernet cable to connect the computer to a 5GHz wifi router.

    Then I must set the router to broadcast wifi on channels that are supported by Quest (above 140) and change the width to 40.


    4. Random complete tracking failure complete tracking failure (only 3dof works and quest warns me that guardian is disabled due to tracking error) - works again after full system reboot
     
    #2020 orangpelupa, Dec 5, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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