RIAA has got it all wrong

[K.I.L.E.R]

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60654,00.html

-41% drop in P2P use.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/974303.asp?vts=100220030512

-10% drop in music sales.

Suing P2P users really helped.

 

[Natoma]

That study would have been useful if they had tracked for upticks in the other services large and small, as well as taken into account students who left college for the summer.

Personally I hope the RIAA companies spend as much time developing online services as they have suing grandparents and little kids that happen to be among the millions of file sharers on the web.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Personally I hope the RIAA companies spend as much time developing online services as they have suing grandparents and little kids that happen to be among the millions of file sharers on the web.

Pesonally, I hope that they sue every last one of the millions of offenders...grandparents, little kids, and you.

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Personally I hope the RIAA companies spend as much time developing online services as they have suing grandparents and little kids that happen to be among the millions of file sharers on the web.

Pesonally, I hope that they sue every last one of the millions of offenders...grandparents, little kids, and you.

Why the attack Joe? First time I seen you attack someone like that. :|

 

[Natoma]

 

[Natoma]

Why the attack Joe? First time I seen you attack someone like that. :|

You must not hang out around here that much.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Why the attack Joe? First time I seen you attack someone like that. :|

Because people stealing stuff...and then those same people condemning the entities who are taking action to protect themselves from theft and dissuade others from theft, rub me in a very bad way.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

And BTW, how is what I said a "personal attack?" I feel that Natoma getting sued or at least brought up on charges (along with everyone else who stole property) would be the right thing to do.

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Why the attack Joe? First time I seen you attack someone like that. :|

Because people stealing stuff...and then those same people condemning the entities who are taking action to protect themselves from theft and dissuade others from theft, rub me in a very bad way.

I never knew Natomo is a thief? How am I supposed to know these things?
I understand what you're talking about Joe but how do you know that Natomo is a thief?

It's a personal attack becuase you are calling him a thief indirectly.

I'm not defending anyone, I'm just saying that P2P users are not the main cause of music sales dipping like the RIAA is leading people to believe.

 

[Natoma]

Why the attack Joe? First time I seen you attack someone like that. :|

Because people stealing stuff...and then those same people condemning the entities who are taking action to protect themselves from theft and dissuade others from theft, rub me in a very bad way.

Personally I hope the RIAA companies spend as much time developing online services as they have suing grandparents and little kids that happen to be among the millions of file sharers on the web.

Now why would I want that eh?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Now why would I want that eh?

So you have a reason to stop stealing from them?

Why not stop stealing just because, oh, it's wrong?

 

[Natoma]

I never knew Natomo is a thief? How am I supposed to know these things?
I understand what you're talking about Joe but how do you know that Natomo is a thief?

It's a personal attack becuase you are calling him a thief indirectly.

I'm not defending anyone, I'm just saying that P2P users are not the main cause of music sales dipping like the RIAA is leading people to believe.

I've admitted to the following:

1) Copying music tracks from friends and vice versa. Joe's response? I'm a thief.

2) Downloading music tracks from the web. Joe's response? I'm a thief.

I suppose I've been a thief since I was 10. I don't see it that way and frankly I never have.

Though you know Joe, if it really bothers your conscience that much, you've got my contact information in my profile. I'm sure you can send it to the RIAA today in a zippy little email.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I suppose I've been a thief since I was 10. I don't see it that way and frankly I never have.

Exactly my point. You are a thief and yet you don't consider yourself one.

Though you know Joe, if it really bothers your conscience that much, you've got my contact information in my profile. I'm sure you can send it to the RIAA today in a zippy little email.

What makes you think I haven't already?

 

[Natoma]

Now why would I want that eh?

So you have a reason to stop stealing from them?

Why not stop stealing just because, oh, it's wrong?

If I really wanted to get the few tracks I've downloaded from the web I could just as easily go to some friends who have vast CD collections and copy the tracks from them, as they have copied tracks from me. You consider that stealing as well, I don't. The web merely makes it more convenient.

Btw, why have people en masse copied tracks from friends and family members? Because they don't want to purchase a whole CD when they only want a couple of music tracks. Gee, if the RIAA companies offered per-track purchasing, they'd have millions more customers who want individual tracks but not the entire CD product.

[EDIT]
I have always purchased CDs when the product merited it. There is a reason why my collection stands at over 200 CDs. However, if I borrow a friends CD and I find I only like a couple of tracks, I have always asked them to copy those tracks for me and make a mix tape. If I liked the CD I went out and purchased it. There is nothing wrong with that.
[/EDIT]

 

[Natoma]

I suppose I've been a thief since I was 10. I don't see it that way and frankly I never have.

Exactly my point. You are a thief and yet you don't consider yourself one.

Though you know Joe, if it really bothers your conscience that much, you've got my contact information in my profile. I'm sure you can send it to the RIAA today in a zippy little email.

What makes you think I haven't already?

/me shrugs

 

[Joe DeFuria]

If I really wanted to get the few tracks I've downloaded from the web I could just as easily go to some friends who have vast CD collections and copy the tracks from them, as they have copied tracks from me. You consider that stealing as well, I don't. The web merely makes it more convenient.

Um, it's not just me that considers that stealing. It is legally stealing Natoma. I am really quite disturbed by your lack of comprehension in this.

I am also quite disturbed that you don't even "consider it" stealing. These are the facts:

1) Someone creates a track. They put their effort into creating it. It's their property.
2) You find value in a track, obviously, because you seek to obtain it.
3) Someone makes that track available for purchase. They say "if you my work, please reward me by paying for it. If you think I'm charging too much, then don't buy it."
4) You decide on your own that you like it, but don't decide to reward anyone for it, so you just "take it."

How anyone would not consider that stealing is beyond me.

Btw, why have people en masse copied tracks from friends and family members? Because they don't want to purchase a whole CD when they only want a couple of music tracks.

We've been through this before. This is not your decision to make.

[EDIT]
I have always purchased CDs when the product merited it. There is a reason why my collection stands at over 200 CDs. However, if I borrow a friends CD and I find I only like a couple of tracks, I have always asked them to copy those tracks for me and make a mix tape. If I liked the CD I went out and purchased it. There is nothing wrong with that.
[/EDIT]

This is absolutely mind boggling to me. Nothing wrong with stealing?

You know, most offenders in the whole music stealing industry will at least ADMIT that what they are doing is wrong. They just try and justify their wrongness by citing an even "greater evil" of the music companies.

You are a rare breed, Natoma. You honestly don't even think what you're doing is wrong. I'm pretty dumbfounded here as I type...

 

[Natoma]

It's taken you this long to realize that I don't think taking individual tracks or getting my friends to make me a mix tape, or making mixes for my friends is stealing? If I thought it was wrong I wouldn't do it. I don't see why you're dumbfounded by this as I've been saying this since that last thread on this topic. As I said, there's a reason I have over 200 CDs.

I also happen to own over 250 DVDs with another 150 coming, even though it's quite easy for me to download DVD quality movies off the web and stream them to my big screen television and stereo via our wireless hookup.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

It's taken you this long to realize that I don't think taking individual tracks or getting my friends to make me a mix tape, or making mixes for my friends is stealing?

No, I am just utterly shocked every time you repeat it.

If I thought it was wrong I wouldn't do it.

Again, exactly the point. It clearly IS wrong...if in no other way than legally. Can you admit that what you are doing is in the very least illegal? Whether or not you "think it's wrong" in some moral sense?

As I said, there's a reason I have over 200 CDs.

Which is completely irrelevant.

I also happen to own over 250 DVDs with another 150 coming...

Also completely irrelevant.

 

[London Geezer]

sorry to jump in, but Joe, have u NEVER in your entire life recorded something on tape from a CD? u know, the 80's and the 90's... when u had to record on tapes..... u've never done that? by your logic that would be stealing.
i do agree though that downloading tracks for free from the internet is illegal. if i were a singer/producer/whoever-working-for-a-music-company, i would want my work to be rewarded. and i would want my "fans" to show how they appreciate my work, by frikking paying for it....

some people think that art should be shared for free, but it's like going into a museum and steal a Van Gogh piece of art because "it should be free for all"... :?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

sorry to jump in, but Joe, have u NEVER in your entire life recorded something on tape from a CD? u know, the 80's and the 90's...

Yes, I have done that a few times.

And I was wrong to do it. (Edit..and furthermore, I knew EVEN THEN, that I was wrong to do it.)

when u had to record on tapes..... u've never done that? by your logic that would be stealing.

And it WAS stealing. (Making a tape of a record that I did not own.) I don't do it anymore, and I don't make excuses for having done it in the past.