Revolutions GPU architecture?

[j^aws]

It's a neat architecture with de-coupled texture units. The basis for Hollywood?

I could see fewer VS and PS units, maybe 4 VS and 12 PS units and on-board eDRAM, all clocked lower maybe 400-500 MHz. Add a nice OOOe CPU (aka Braodway) and you're all set!

 

[Titanio]

Was the R520 team the ArtX/Flipper/Hollwood team? If so, I wouldn't be surprised to see some of both in each other.

I wonder if Hollywood is finished yet..?

 

[pc999]

I supose that a suped up/custum X1300/17(/6?)00 + edram would give us a incredebly visuals at 480p, although I think I would prefer a in order CPU and more power or less pricier (or a bit of both)(unless we saw a diferent price in games or in their features/longevity etc..., which I doubt).

 

[Urian]

The X1600 (the 12 pipes configuration) consumes only 25W when it runs at 500Mhz. Combine it with the PowerPC 970FX that will appear at the end of the year (16W) and you will have a very good low cost machine.

 

[Teasy]

I wonder how much embedded ram they'll use and how much heat that would add to the X1600? Though I suppose if its true that they're considering 720P support that could be something even they still haven't finalized.

 

[The GameMaster]

I am going to have to say no...

 

[j^aws]

This is Gamecubes Flipper GPU patent,

Graphics system with embedded frame buffer having reconfigurable pixel formats

I wouldn't be surprised if they followed that architecture with the Rev...

The Gamecubes CPU, Gecko, has it's vector units removed so that Flipper's vector units act like general purpose DSP's, doing sound proceesing, vertex work etc...

I wouldn't be suprised if they modified the R520 VS units to act more like general purpose DSP's for Hollywood and removed the vector units in Broadway. This would also allow them more cache in Broadway and perhaps be OOOe too...

As for Hollywood being 720P, maybe they opted for 480P because of the Rev controllers per pixel accuracy level...?

480P is about 1/2 million pixels per frame so should fit into ~4 MB of eDRAM, assuming 8 Bytes/pixel. They could push it to ~6 MB eDRAM for 12 Bytes per pixel (64bit HDR, FP16) and more depending on AA levels...assuming they include eDRAM...?

Whether Rev release on 90nm or 65nm will have a huge say on configuration...

 

[pc999]

The Gamecubes CPU, Gecko, has it's vector units removed so that Flipper's vector units act like general purpose DSP's, doing sound proceesing, vertex work etc...

I wouldn't be suprised if they modified the R520 VS units to act more like general purpose DSP's for Hollywood and removed the vector units in Broadway. This would also allow them more cache in Broadway and perhaps be OOOe too...

Really I doubt they remove the vector units, I think that considering the changes of making (eg) animations very complex ,once that will have a very complex input too for example in tenis , in a "close up" ninja gaiden like game here you can chosse to hit his leg/arm/head/whatever whit total precission, or in a Zelda/PoP those games should lead to a hard time making the animation code probably they will use a lot of processural work for it. In the other hand vector units will help them while comparing to the others in physics, sound etc...

While the capabilits for GPGPU had increased a lot I doubt they get on pair with VMX.

I think that they should invest a lot in CPU once that it would be a shame if it would hold in gameplay terms.

 

[Titanio]

The Gamecubes CPU, Gecko, has it's vector units removed so that Flipper's vector units act like general purpose DSP's, doing sound proceesing, vertex work etc...

Gekko had vmx/altivec, no?

As for Hollywood being 720P, maybe they opted for 480P because of the Rev controllers per pixel accuracy level...?

480P is about 1/2 million pixels per frame so should fit into ~4 MB of eDRAM, assuming 8 Bytes/pixel. They could push it to ~6 MB eDRAM for 12 Bytes per pixel (64bit HDR, FP16) and more depending on AA levels...assuming they include eDRAM...?

Whether Rev release on 90nm or 65nm will have a huge say on configuration...

Yeah, I'm really really hopeful that it's a 65nm part, but maybe that's more hope than anything else.

I think re. resolution they simply are aware than most of the market will be playing on SDTVs, and they can match (or exceed perhaps?) power per pixel of the other machines by catering to that only.

 

[Guden Oden]

It's a neat architecture with de-coupled texture units. The basis for Hollywood?

Is this another of your infamous home-made speculative schematic drawings that we saw so many of during the PS3 broadband engine craze era?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Is this another of your infamous home-made speculative schematic drawings that we saw so many of during the PS3 broadband engine craze era?

It's a rumored leaked ATI r5xx diagram.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/R5XX/4

 

[Guden Oden]

Ahh, I see. Hasn't ATi more or less confirmed though that Nintendo's getting a custom chip, and not one based on a PC GPU?

 

[j^aws]

While the capabilities for GPGPU had increased a lot I doubt they get on pair with VMX.
...

Yeah I'd agree but ATI seems to be pushing the GPGPU agenda. Gecko was based on a PPC750 with the VMX/Altivec unit removed. They put a DSP/sound processor and memory controller in Flipper. It would be interesting if they followed that line of thinking for Broadway and Hollywood, i.e pushing vector resources from CPU to GPU...

Gekko had vmx/altivec, no?

No, Gecko doesn't have one. Instead it has an FPU that can operate in 2-way SIMD.

Yeah, I'm really really hopeful that it's a 65nm part, but maybe that's more hope than anything else.

If they're launching late 2006, then perhaps...

I think re. resolution they simply are aware than most of the market will be playing on SDTVs, and they can match (or exceed perhaps?) power per pixel of the other machines by catering to that only.

Forcing everything for 480P, they can still achieve stunning results. But I can't see why 720P cannot be allowed too...hence earlier comment on Rev controller perhaps having a certain per pixel accuracy and not capable of 720P...

Is this another of your infamous home-made speculative schematic drawings that we saw so many of during the PS3 broadband engine craze era?

No, not quite! I only wish I had patented that schematic though!

Ahh, I see. Hasn't ATi more or less confirmed though that Nintendo's getting a custom chip, and not one based on a PC GPU?

Not sure, but custom needs to be defined and so does PC GPU. One could argue that Xenos is an early R600 PC GPU with custom eDRAM!

 

[pc999]

Yeah, I'm really really hopeful that it's a 65nm part, but maybe that's more hope than anything else.

Isnt TSCM who are ready for mass production in late 2005 (Nov, Dec?) considering that MS started production 2-3 mouths before relese, that should be enought for lauching on march 2006, BTW I think they would give a low power version instead of a fast one of the 65nm part by request of the custumers.

Now we only need to know who is going to fab their chips ...

 

[arhra]

Gecko was based on a PPC750 with the VMX/Altivec unit removed.

The 750 never had a vector unit to be removed. In fact, Gecko's vector math support was improved over a stock ppc750, since they added a 2-way simd capability to the FPU.

 

[Shogmaster]

The X1600 (the 12 pipes configuration) consumes only 25W when it runs at 500Mhz. Combine it with the PowerPC 970FX that will appear at the end of the year (16W) and you will have a very good low cost machine.

Wow, that sounds really realy familiar.

 

[Teasy]

Does the Mac Mini have all standard parts inside? I'm pretty sure the main memory is just a standard stick of ram. But what about graphics?, does it have an actual graphics card or did ATI allow them to intergrate a GPU on the motherboard?

 

[Shogmaster]

Does the Mac Mini have all standard parts inside? I'm pretty sure the main memory is just a standard stick of ram. But what about graphics?, does it have an actual graphics card or did ATI allow them to intergrate a GPU on the motherboard?

Mac Mini has standard PC2700 (or PC3200) DIMM slot, a Radeon 9200 IGP/northbridge, a 2.5" HDD, airport extreme daughter card and other necessities, and IIRC a single fan (45mm? 1" thick?) to cool the G4 CPU/heatsink and everything else. Power supply is external.

 

[Urian]

Wow, that sounds really realy familiar.

Yes, I have read this somewhere but I didn´t remember where and by who.

 

[j^aws]

The 750 never had a vector unit to be removed. In fact, Gecko's vector math support was improved over a stock ppc750, since they added a 2-way simd capability to the FPU.

Yeah you're right. It looks like Apples and IBM's differing nomenclatures has confuzzled me, and not the first time I might add! The G4's had Altivec but not the G3's which IBM label PPC 7xxx and PPC 7xx respectively!

Anyhow, the 2-way SIMD FPU I was already aware of as acknowledged above and if this was an enhancement at the expense of removing Altivec from G4's, then I wouldn't be surprised if they just took a stock G5 for Broadway and enhanced it too. Or the possibility of an enhanced PPE/Xenon dual issue core...