Relevance of Europe to game development *spawn

[Ghostz]

Um, let's revisit your point as you appear to have forgotten it:

You weren't talking about influence on modern game design alone. You said Europe hadn't contributed anything worthwhile for 30 years. and when confronted with questions about your reference materaial (top franchises) you've ignored them. But then your argument has changed from post to post as you've avoided actually debating anything and just made noise. Hence the infraction from a non-European mod.

No, I didn't say Europeans haven't contributed anything worthwhile for 30 years. That's something you invented in your mindless bias. Where did I say that word for word? The quote specifically reads: Americans and Japanese have been making better games than Europeans for a better part of 30 years. I used the "best selling games ever" as proof of that. Not only is it proof that Americans and Japanese are making better games, it's also a blueprint in history and place of design influence. I told you before, I'm very careful in choosing my words, unlike you, I have a conscious, pre-conscious in filtering my words. I would never say Europeans haven't contributed anything worthwhile for 30 years. In fact, I did give credit to GTA. Again, it's your mindless bias that sees it otherwise. But I digress at this point. Point being: you've done a poor job at trying to convince me that Europeans are at the forefront of modern game design and I've never really thought about it until now. Never was really conscious about it until somebody mentioned the fact that Microsoft spends untold amounts of cash getting japanese developer support, it helped me put things into perspective, so I did learn something. It wasn't a completely waste of my time despite my one-way conversation, it was productive nonetheless. I know Europeans think highly of themselves, undeservedly so.

 

[KongRudi]

So what you're saying Tetris, and GTA isn't influencing modern gamedesign, but Marathon (FPS) and Gears (TPS?) influence modern game design?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No, I didn't say Europeans haven't contributed anything worthwhile for 30 years. That's something you invented in your mindless bias. Where did I say that word for word?

Americans gave you FPS and RPGs but the Japanese gave you platformers and character action games. Within this framework, there's nothing distinctly "European"

First and foremost: the Japanese and Americans are selling you a culture; a gaming culture with a very long historic indigenous root. They have years; 3 decades of history and innovation that has popularized modern game design. I've been clear about the importance of that couldn't be understated by the lack thereof in Europe.

I've outlined the facts such as game genre being made in US and Japan, we can count the genres invented

The quote specifically reads: Americans and Japanese have been making better games than Europeans for a better part of 30 years. I used the "best selling games ever" as proof of that. Not only is it proof that Americans and Japanese are making better games.

But you only refer to one source and haven't reasoned that best-selling franchises is proof positive of best games. I suggested to use Metacritic. I also pointed out that reuse of a franchise skews your data.

I told you before, I'm very careful in choosing my words, unlike you, I have a conscious, pre-conscious in filtering my words.

So when you said, "cultural indigenity in gaming" instead of "indiginous gaming culture" and "onerous" instead of "onus", you were both conscious and preconciously filtering your words?

 

[Ghostz]

But you only refer to one source and haven't reasoned that best-selling franchises is proof positive of best games. I suggested to use Metacritic. I also pointed out that reuse of a franchise skews your data.

So when you said, "cultural indigenity in gaming" instead of "indiginous gaming culture" and "onerous" instead of "onus", you were both conscious and preconciously filtering your words?

Go on that list and you'll see there's very few of them that are categorically bad design wise. In fact, one would say most of them are quite inventive in their own way. That's the thing about the gaming industry, usually, the best designed games sell the most. If you are designing a good game it will continue to sell even if you refresh it yearly, bi-yearly or if you take a decade to do it.

...and again, I chose my words VERY carefully because I want them to have a very, very, very, very, VERY, VERY specific meaning. So yes, it's quite pre-consciously, conscious like that....

 

[dobwal]

Can anyone say Grand Theft Auto, Max Payne, Crysis, FarCry, Fable, Hitman, Killzone, Perfect Dark, Golden Eye or Tomb Raider.

You can't tell that a few of those titles had no affect on modern game design and popularity of certain genres today.

 

[Ghostz]

So what you're saying Tetris, and GTA isn't influencing modern gamedesign, but Marathon (FPS) and Gears (TPS?) influence modern game design?

Where did I say GTA hasn't influenced modern game design? Didn't I give credit to GTA? That's one game Europe developed that's affects modern game, yes. I'm drawing a blank on everything else.

 

[Ghostz]

Can anyone say Grand Theft Auto, Max Payne, Crysis, FarCry, Fable, Hitman, Killzone, Perfect Dark, Golden Eye or Tomb Raider.

You can't tell that a few of those titles had no affect on modern game design and popularity of certain genres today.

I would say only GTA has had any affects on changing game design. I can list the top-tier development inspired by it: Assassins Creed and Red Dead Redemption just off the top of my head

Crysis is a FPS, so is Far Cry, Killzone, Perfect Dark and Golden Eye. I don't see any of those as game changers. Nothing like Doom or Quake or Half Life and especially Call of Duty. Hell, Duke Nukem has done more to changing modern game design for FPS than any of those.

 

[Onkl Bjorni]

But I digress at this point. Point being: you've done a poor job at trying to convince me that Europeans are at the forefront of modern game design

To me this reads as that your mind was already made up and no mater what points, facts, whatever was brought up there was really no hope of convincing you of anything else..

It wasn't a completely waste of my time despite my one-way conversation, it was productive nonetheless. I know Europeans think highly of themselves, undeservedly so.

Who is having high thoughts about themselves now?

Anyway, I have to agree with Shifty Geezer, that North American and European culture has become so similar that it stands to reason that gaming is going to be very similar too.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I would say only GTA has had any affects on changing game design. I can list the top-tier development inspired by it: Assassins Creed and Red Dead Redemption just off the top of my head

Elements of all of those games have had effects. All that is really at debate here is your lack of ability to recognize it.

Mods: Do we really need this thread so one person can troll the Euro contribution to gaming?

 

[Richard]

Not really. Since this has been a one-way discussion as admitted by the OP, I guess this discussion has run its course.