Relationship between MS/Nvidia
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martrox said:
I just had a mental image of Jen Hsun rubbing his hands together and laughing egomaniacally whilst declaring that everything graphical in the world will one day be his!
Smurfie said:
They can live with ATI supplying graphics to Nintendo and they can cope with IBM supplying CPU's to them all, so I don't see that there would be much conflict of interest in the graphics. That would not have been a consideration point when they picked the supplier anyway.
DegustatoR
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Are you sure that Cell will be produced by IBM?DaveBaumann said:
Who produces it is pretty much immaterial; as far as “conflicts of interest†goes it’s the technology that’s one of the most important factors and the design of Cell is a joint venture between IBM, Sony and Toshiba with a PPC core at its heart; much like the Xenon CPU is said to be PPC based but with specific elements from MS that have been implemented by IBM.
All that brabble about "conflicts" is totally irrelevant. When MS or Sony or whoever look for suppliers, the game starts at the beginning each time the new product is being specified. The best price/availability/performance combo will win, regardless of past conflicts - just like in any other business. Nothing personal there.
martrox said:
Yes, and the JHH quote as I recall it is amusing:
JHH said IIRC (possibly paraphrased):
"We want to light every pixel on every screen."
Heh...
This quote was made in the pre-R3x0 era and the history of events since that time certainly indicates that the quote epitomizes just how much trouble monopolistic thinking can cause a company. Such thinking takes your focus away from where it needs to be--such as on R&D, for instance.I've read in the past quotes from other nV employees which I can recite as:
"In five years, we'll be bigger than Intel."
(No kidding, I recall the comment clearly as it's the kind of vain comment that really stands out for me.) This, too, emerged from within the post-3dfx, pre-R3x0 era.
Obviously, at one time this kind of thinking was certainly institutional within nV (if not congenital.) I feel it explains beautifully the kind of delusional thinking that derailed nV years ago and created the fundamental competitive weakness that ATi was able to exploit so well with R3x0. When the top management of a company seriously entertains monopolisitic delusions in a competitive market the first fallacy that has to be accepted is the notion that you don't have any competition to worry about...
DegustatoR
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This kind of thinking is present in almost all commercial companies and has absolutely nothing to do with any mistakes that NV made during NV30 development.
WaltC said:Obviously, at one time this kind of thinking was certainly institutional within nV (if not congenital.) I feel it explains beautifully the kind of delusional thinking that derailed nV years ago and created the fundamental competitive weakness that ATi was able to exploit so well with R3x0. When the top management of a company seriously entertains monopolisitic delusions in a competitive market the first fallacy that has to be accepted is the notion that you don't have any competition to worry about...
= Nvidia is evil
Are ATI's offices covered in white lillies and staffed by God's chosen or something? After being on this board for a while I really believe Nvidia is run by Hell's demons and ATI is the shining light in the eternal fight against the darkness.
trinibwoy said:WaltC said:Obviously, at one time this kind of thinking was certainly institutional within nV (if not congenital.) I feel it explains beautifully the kind of delusional thinking that derailed nV years ago and created the fundamental competitive weakness that ATi was able to exploit so well with R3x0. When the top management of a company seriously entertains monopolisitic delusions in a competitive market the first fallacy that has to be accepted is the notion that you don't have any competition to worry about...
= Nvidia is evil
Are ATI's offices covered in white lillies and staffed by God's chosen or something? After being on this board for a while I really believe Nvidia is run by Hell's demons and ATI is the shining light in the eternal fight against the darkness.
No, ATI is still the underdog. Just like nVidia and 3Dfx story when nV brough TNT into game. Deja vú...
trinibwoy said:= Nvidia is evil
Are ATI's offices covered in white lillies and staffed by God's chosen or something? After being on this board for a while I really believe Nvidia is run by Hell's demons and ATI is the shining light in the eternal fight against the darkness.
That's because B3D brings the truth forthwith. It's actually not that hard to figure out for yourself. I knew nvidia was evil long before I knew about B3D, during the Voodoo 3 days.
DegustatoR said:
That's a sort of convenient analysis, don't you think? It's my belief that it was precisely the sort of attitude I describe that was responsible for nV's winding up some 2 years behind ATi with the the launch of R300 in August of 2002. Such attitudes lead to complacency, which then leads to a tendency to "milk" existing hardware for as long as possible, which then opens the door to a vigorous competitor. This is exactly what happened between Intel and AMD, for instance.
People sometimes forget that corporations are not sentient entities in themselves but are merely reflections of both the strengths and weaknesses of the people who run them, as well as their judgment--or lack of it, as the case may be.
trinibwoy said:= Nvidia is evil
Remember that you said that, not me...
nV is no more "evil" than Microsoft, Intel, or Apple, etc., ad infinitum. What nVidia is, however, just like every other company, is human, and therefore subject to the foibles which afflict all men everywhere. I would hope that you might understand the difference between human fallibility and "evil"...
Are ATI's offices covered in white lillies and staffed by God's chosen or something? After being on this board for a while I really believe Nvidia is run by Hell's demons and ATI is the shining light in the eternal fight against the darkness.
Yes, lol...
I'm talking about one thing while you are talking about something wholly different. I'm merely commenting on historical events as they occurred while you are deep into a philosophy of good and evil, which I confess is quite beyond me as you have applied it...All companies reflect the strengths and weaknesses of the people who run them, and from time to time all of them are strong and all of them are weak, the only difference being one of comparative degree at a given point in time. This phenomenon is known in economic circles as competition...
Come on Walt, you can say it. ATI and NVidia are no more evil than MS< Apple, or Intel. ATI's former CEO and his wife were just found guilty of netting about 7 mil in insider trading back in 2000. I mean come on Walt. Just say it once. I can hear Rob Schneider in the back ground saying "You can do it!"
ondaedg said:
Actually, you are in fact jumping the gun a little there. ATI, the company, have settled with the OSC for the specific charge that pertained to the company, however KY Ho has sought a further adjournment for his charges based on this development.
Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.
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