Redfall [XBSX|S, XGP, PC]

[Deleted member 11852]

I mean, it's Bethesda so you should never not be concerned.

Technically, Starfield is built on the foundations of an engine that is over 25 years old.

Oblivion on PS3 was my first introdiction to Bethesda Game Studios, then Fallout 3 on PS3, then New Vegas on PS3 (from Obsidian running Bethesda's engine), then Skyrim on PS3, then Fallout 4 on PC/PS4, then Skyrim on PS4/PC/PSVR and most recently Skyrim on PS5/Series X.

I have been able to see past the occasional AI/physics/gameplay jank of these games and really enjoy the unparalleled freedom that Bethesda's games offered and I've only seen Bethesda's engine get only more robust. I genuinely appreciate that Bethesda are doing things with their engine that most other games don't do. In Skyrim you can follow a NPC on a mission traverse their way across the map to accomplish a mission, fighting along the way, looting supplies as they need. There is no cheap-out smoke-and-mirrors of having an NPC run around a corner and de-spawn only to re-spawn half-way across a map a game tick later. Bethesda build game worlds where it feels like the inhabitants follow the same rules as the player which massively helps immersion.

I've become accustomed to 30fps/quality and 60fps/performance modes on current gen consoles and Redfall gives me pause to wonder if for Starfield that Microsoft would be happy to throw 60fps out of the window, for launch at least, on Series X. I really hope not, but the quality of Halo Infinite and now this decision about Redfall makes me question what Microsoft's technical priorities are for Xbox games.

 

[cheapchips]

wonder if for Starfield that Microsoft would be happy to throw 60fps out of the window, for launch at least, on Series X

The performance mode will be 30fps.

 

[mr magoo]

This game looks very mediocre to be 30fps

This. This game doesn’t look good by any standards. And why it cannot run at 60 fps with such a disappointing visuals is a riddle for sure.

 

[trinibwoy]

This. This game doesn’t look good by any standards. And why it cannot run at 60 fps with such a disappointing visuals is a riddle for sure.

Looks like it’s using UE4 so it’s even more mysterious. Maybe the devs just suck.

 

[iroboto]

This. This game doesn’t look good by any standards. And why it cannot run at 60 fps with such a disappointing visuals is a riddle for sure.

Looks fine visually. It’s not bad at all. But likely suffering from development hell though.

4 different characters all able to drop objects and summons on screen, with various particle effects and changes in a large play space with verticality is going to be a bit tougher than your COD shooter while running the AI for your team mates is going to be several times more taxing than most fps titles. It can be solved with online only of course, not sure if they did that or if they went back to offline mode supported.

Looks like the type of game that is meant to be next Gen running on an old Gen engine. Ie: UE5 would have no issues with this I think, but UE4 would.

 

[swaaye]

Deathloop had RT, quality and performance modes. I think I ran it on quality most of the time. The only bug I remember was a rather insidious one that would cause the inventory/character menu/journal to freeze up seemingly randomly, usually after at least an hour of play. The only way out was a force close of the game. I'm sure that was fun to solve. Their games post Dark Messiah haven't been terribly buggy in my experience.

They are new to this sort of multiplayer game though AFAIK.

I think if it comes out with just one hardware mode or whatever you want to call it, it has been rushed by the publisher.

 

[cheapchips]

Deathloop had RT, quality and performance modes.

That was on Void though. UE is new to Arcane.

 

[swaaye]

That was on Void though. UE is new to Arcane.

Actually that's not true. Arkane Austin is developing Redfall. They made Prey which was Cryengine but also had an offshoot mini project called Prey Typhon Hunter which is on UE4.

Arkane Lyon made Deathloop which is on a form of Void.

Another interesting thing is Lyon developed Wolfenstein Cyberpilot and Austin developed Wolfenstein Youngblood. Both on ID6.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I think the transition period with essentially last gen games running on these new systems at 60 fps has spoiled people. It's pretty obvious that 30 fps will be more common as the gen rolls on.

 

[cheapchips]

Arkane Austin is developing Redfall. They made Prey which was Cryengine but also had an offshoot mini project called Prey Typhon Hunter which is on UE4.

I'd forgotten about Typhoon Hunter. In retrospect, it looks like an UE production/multiplayer test for Redfall.

 

[mr magoo]

Looks fine visually. It’s not bad at all. But likely suffering from development hell though.

4 different characters all able to drop objects and summons on screen, with various particle effects and changes in a large play space with verticality is going to be a bit tougher than your COD shooter while running the AI for your team mates is going to be several times more taxing than most fps titles. It can be solved with online only of course, not sure if they did that or if they went back to offline mode supported.

Looks like the type of game that is meant to be next Gen running on an old Gen engine. Ie: UE5 would have no issues with this I think, but UE4 would.

You make interesting point but I am not sure if I am sold. I think COD specially in new DMZ modes looks significantly better while staying at 60 fps. Other games with big maps like halo infinite (which was also criticized for average visuals) or even an Apex legends looks better.
I think it could be development hell as you said. Not really exciting first impressions and very average presentation. After not having anything to show last year this isn’t a title that gives lot of hope to Xbox fans.

 

[cheapchips]

'Development hell' is really speculative it isn't it? It's a complicated game compared to many titles. Performance mode probably needs a bit more tlc than more straightforward experiences.

 

[swaaye]

It will be interesting to see if the game finds a niche. I'm not sure there's anything quite like it out there. It most reminds me of indie horror multiplayer games like Devour and Pacify but with a lighter cartoon or anime horror vibe and much larger scope since it is fairly open world from the looks of it. I'm surprised they aren't going for a launch near Halloween.

 

[Phantom88]

It will be interesting to see if the game finds a niche. I'm not sure there's anything quite like it out there.

They were saying the game is like if you throw Arcane's ideas in a mix of Far Cry 2 or STALKER - refering to the unpredictable and unscripted events that occur in those games. Most people reacted at the reveal gameplays saying it looks like Far Cry 3.

 

[swaaye]

They were saying the game is like if you throw Arcane's ideas in a mix of Far Cry 2 or STALKER - refering to the unpredictable and unscripted events that occur in those games. Most people reacted at the reveal gameplays saying it looks like Far Cry 3.

That leads me to some interesting developer comments actually. Like I am almost ready to buy it now.

Arkane creative director Ricardo Bare cites Redfall's open world setting as the key difference between it and horde shooters, and the direct connection to Ubisoft's Far Cry series. "You're in a big-ass open world," says Bare. "We have a home base where you can talk to NPCs and get side-quests. You can go to the mission table and pick up story-driven missions. Or you can not give a shit about any of that and just head outside; pick a direction, start hauling ass, and run into the living-world stuff that we have going on."

"In terms of freedom, there's what you would expect from other open worlds, but Redfall is an on-foot game," says Bare. "The scale and the pace is a little slowed down in that respect. We want you creeping through a cornfield at night in the fog, hearing vampires whisper in the dark. Maybe you'll spot a farmhouse in the distance and sneak over to it, only to find that it's full of cultists and a few trapped survivors who you can save. That's the kind of vibe that Redfall has."

It sounds like if Far Cry were designed by guys who love horror and have been doing immersive sims since Deus Ex.

STALKER is way more militaristic, darker, lonelier. But yeah similarities there too.

Redfall is more like Far Cry than Left 4 Dead, says Arkane

Arkane's co-op vampire shooter might have a bit of Left 4 Dead about it, but its open world means it's more like Far Cry, say its developers.

www.rockpapershotgun.com

 

[mr magoo]

'Development hell' is really speculative it isn't it? It's a complicated game compared to many titles. Performance mode probably needs a bit more tlc than more straightforward experiences.

Yes it is, i think we could be playing devils advocate here.

 

[iroboto]

'Development hell' is really speculative it isn't it? It's a complicated game compared to many titles. Performance mode probably needs a bit more tlc than more straightforward experiences.

Platform wise it should be easier to handle.
Game scale wise; this is a big game.
Game design wise, seems like a lot of instances where players are just kiting and running around. I’m actually not so sure how fun this game is just by watching. Bullet sponge games tend to suck the most fun bits of shooter games which is combat design of shooting a gun. Something destiny nailed. I don’t mind 30fps, but this game doesn’t have the look and feel of a satisfying kill.

But you’re right, I’m speculating.

 

[Seanspeed]

Whilst Redfield is not my thing, this does makes me a little anxious about how Starfield will play on my Series X at launch. Do I now need to think about getting it on PC, or wait for a 60fps mode to roll out later on Xbox. Hopefully the Starfield event next month (I think) will provide reassurance.

I'm pretty confident Starfield will be a 30fps game on console, full stop, and that any performance mode that might exist will only be 40fps or some 60fps 'unlocked' mode but not actually hitting 60fps.

The scope of what they're attempting is greater than anything they've ever made by a long shot, will likely have a super physicalized world as usual(very underrated aspect of their games and technology), and going by what they've shown, is likely to be pretty GPU heavy as well. They are simply always going to prioritize their vision and their ambitions over things like performance and polish. And with this game looking like a proper 'next gen' visual leap over Fallout 4, I think it's unrealistic to expect them to achieve all that, plus doubling the framerate.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

The scope of what they're attempting is greater than anything they've ever made by a long shot, will likely have a super physicalized world as usual(very underrated aspect of their games and technology), and going by what they've shown, is likely to be pretty GPU heavy as well.

It feels like Bethesda are reversing their world/tech aims with Starfield, given they have gradually been working towards more seamless environments since Oblivion. We know from clarifications from Bethesda that the traversal in Starfield will not be seamless as planets are effectively load-zones as existed for interior environments in Oblivion/Fallout 3, but which was greatly diminished in Fallout 4 where many interior environments existed within in the greater open world environment.

We'll need to see exactly what Starfield is but Fallout 4 was largely a massive and freely-explorable open environment where NPCs could freely traverse that environment, but what has been shown of Starfield looks closer to Fallout 3 then Fallout 4.

 

[eastmen]

It feels like Bethesda are reversing their world/tech aims with Starfield, given they have gradually been working towards more seamless environments since Oblivion. We know from clarifications from Bethesda that the traversal in Starfield will not be seamless as planets are effectively load-zones as existed for interior environments in Oblivion/Fallout 3, but which was greatly diminished in Fallout 4 where many interior environments existed within in the greater open world environment.

We'll need to see exactly what Starfield is but Fallout 4 was largely a massive and freely-explorable open environment where NPCs could freely traverse that environment, but what has been shown of Starfield looks closer to Fallout 3 then Fallout 4.

We have to see what type of storage is required for Pc , however I think this becoming a xbox series only title and not having to worry about lat gen games will be a huge boon to the player experiance. The nvme drives should make transitions extremely quick.

I'll be playing this on pc but I hope the extra year they have gotten allows them to really optimize for the xbox version. We will be able to tell more on June 11th


As for redfall I think the game looks fine and while its a shame performance mode isn't in it at launch , well its not like there weren't other games this year that had issues with their different modes out of the gate. So I guess you either get them rushing to meet launch or giving them a few weeks or months to do it right