R520 for notebooks: M58 when and what?

[Karma Police]

IMO they are now going skip DTR/Notebook R520 and go with a R580 when its available. The main system of any significance in terms of volume is likely to be the Dell system and they probably won't refresh until the new year, so they would look to that. R580 will have most of the advantages as R520 will, but considerably more shader horse power, so they will be able to clock this one down more and still get a decent range ofer performance.

Well, that's good to know, but since the R580 probably isn't being released for desktops until around the 2Q '06 (to not crimp the R520), wouldn't that mean the M58 would be released about an entire year after ATi originally got PCI-sig approval? That's a really long time, don't you think?

Not that I disagree with you, but still........

 

[Fodder]

wouldn't that mean the M58 would be released about an entire year after ATi originally got PCI-sig approval?

That's assuming M58 is the mobile R580. Not that I know it isn't, but I haven't seen anything concrete to suggest that it is either.

 

[hkultala]

Even though in the desktop market almost all the money is also made in the mid & low-end side, imagine what would happen if ATi never released the R520 & only the R530 & R515? It would stop being a technological leader.

the desktop R520 is enough to keep the customers thinking that "ati is the technology leader". you need just one "PR-chip", not many.

 

[Geo]

IMO they are now going skip DTR/Notebook R520 and go with a R580 when its available. The main system of any significance in terms of volume is likely to be the Dell system and they probably won't refresh until the new year, so they would look to that. R580 will have most of the advantages as R520 will, but considerably more shader horse power, so they will be able to clock this one down more and still get a decent range ofer performance.

The potential problem with that, it seems to me, is that NV of late has been pushing a model where their DTR chip has bugger all performance delta vs the desktop equivalant. If they can keep that up, and you assume that they are at least competitive on the desktop with their R580 competitor, then it looks a little unfavorable for ATI.

 

[Karma Police]

That's assuming M58 is the mobile R580. Not that I know it isn't, but I haven't seen anything concrete to suggest that it is either.

Maybe. But two things are strongly suggesting it is. First, if it wasn't then ATi would be releasing it within the next month or so & we should have heard something about it. Secondly, Dave said so, so there (nyah).

Yeah, it's all I got, & I'd rather have ATi put something out, but I trust Dave with bad news, too.

 

[kemosabe]

That's assuming M58 is the mobile R580. Not that I know it isn't, but I haven't seen anything concrete to suggest that it is either.

Again, we inevitably come back to the question of what M58 is. I can't imagine that ATI's four new mobile ASICs (M52, 54, 56, 58) are all based on RV515 and RV530. In all likelihood M58 is either based on R520 (whether it will be available commercially is another matter) or it's the R580 architecture.

 

[Urian]

Can be the RV530?

The RV530 running at 500Mhz has a power consumption of 25W.

 

[Geo]

It's hard to figure how you get to an RV530 part that you can describe as "16 pipe" by either old standards or new. By old standards where you end up is R580. By new standards the math just doesn't work. . .pipes would go 12, 24, 36, 48.

 

[Geo]

Review at Anand today on a go 7800gtx:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2557

The performance is down signficantly from desktop GTX.

 

[caboosemoose]

IMO they are now going skip DTR/Notebook R520 and go with a R580 when its available. The main system of any significance in terms of volume is likely to be the Dell system and they probably won't refresh until the new year, so they would look to that. R580 will have most of the advantages as R520 will, but considerably more shader horse power, so they will be able to clock this one down more and still get a decent range ofer performance.

OK, is that a best guess, or a derivation from some fact or other. Obviously M58 is clearly indicated as being based on R520, so using R580 would be a change of plan. My best info was that something may appear around the end of Jan 2006.

 

[caboosemoose]

Review at Anand today on a go 7800gtx:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2557

The performance is down signficantly from desktop GTX.

Well, it's a bit down on the desktop part, but its still pretty insane, especially when you consider that same chip with the same clocks is available in the *relatively* portable Dell XPS notebook. Don't know how many people have had a play with the XPS, but combined with the 7800 go, it really is one of the most impressive pieces of kit around right now. And it's a Dell :O

 

[Fodder]

First, if it wasn't then ATi would be releasing it within the next month or so & we should have heard something about it.

Unless it's being skipped.

Secondly, Dave said so

Link/quote please.

 

[Karma Police]

Unless it's being skipped.

That's what I said.

Link/quote please.

It's just 12 paragraphs up. Did you miss it?

IMO they are now going skip DTR/Notebook R520 and go with a R580 when its available. The main system of any significance in terms of volume is likely to be the Dell system and they probably won't refresh until the new year, so they would look to that. R580 will have most of the advantages as R520 will, but considerably more shader horse power, so they will be able to clock this one down more and still get a decent range ofer performance.

 

[Geo]

Well, it's a bit down on the desktop part, but its still pretty insane, especially when you consider that same chip with the same clocks is available in the *relatively* portable Dell XPS notebook. Don't know how many people have had a play with the XPS, but combined with the 7800 go, it really is one of the most impressive pieces of kit around right now. And it's a Dell :O

Oh, agreed. This was in continuation of Wavey's point that a mobile R580 would be downclocked, and me pointing out that recent NV mobile was every bit as performant as recent NV desktop --which is now looking (with the Anand piece) like a one-shot rather than the start of a trend.

 

[Fodder]

That's what I said.

No it isn't. You said that if M58 is the R520-equivalent we should know about it by now, and that if it is the R580-equivalent it will have been waiting in the wings an awfully long time. What if the M58 from PCI-SIG was an R520-equivalent, but has also been shelved in favour of an R580-equivalent?

It's just 12 paragraphs up.

That doesn't say that M58 is the R580-equivalent. All it says is that an R580-equivalent part is more likely, and the 'now going to' implies that an R520-equivalent was the initial plan.

I think I've had enough of semantics for the time being though.

 

[Bjorn]

R580 will have most of the advantages as R520 will, but considerably more shader horse power

Most != All. Whats missing then ?

 

[Dave Baumann]

Well, at the very least, not missing, just different. Bottom of the page...

 

[Razor1]

Well, at the very least, not missing, just different. Bottom of the page...

with the increased batch size wouldn't that effect branching speed though?

 

[Dave Baumann]

And we refer back to what Bjorn was quoting.

 

[Karma Police]

No it isn't. You said that if M58 is the R520-equivalent we should know about it by now, and that if it is the R580-equivalent it will have been waiting in the wings an awfully long time. What if the M58 from PCI-SIG was an R520-equivalent, but has also been shelved in favour of an R580-equivalent?

I'm sorry you misunderstood me. The reason I made the thread is because most people thought the M58 was the mobile R520. If that was true we probably would have heard something about its release. Everything given now suggests otherwise. Apparently ATi isn't releasing a mobile version of the R520, and is releasing a mobile version of the R580 instead.

That doesn't say that M58 is the R580-equivalent. All it says is that an R580-equivalent part is more likely, and the 'now going to' implies that an R520-equivalent was the initial plan.

I think I've had enough of semantics for the time being though.

You interpreting Dave a different way? Join the crowd. The end result is still no mobile part until sometime next year.